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Old 15th January 2018, 22:21   #16
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Default Re: TAFE Access, Chennai: I want agreed deal on paper, but dealer refuses

If a customer appears to be a potential liability for it, every business has the full right to back off and reject the proposal before any money exchanges hands. As long as no money is exchanged and no terms are committed, everything that has happened is pure sales talk. At such stage, one has to just move on to another dealer. But even there, negotiations and deals should be made smartly.

Deals can be made with some form of reproducible evidence (recorded calls, whatsapp conversations, signed and stamped quotations, partial payments with unconditional refunds etc.,.). But asking to sign this kind of watertight contracts raises too many eyebrows .

I don't see anything much wrong from the dealer side. Infact, if I were to deal with a customer who pushes such terms, I would rather loose that business than to bring on unnecessary head ache.

As a customer, I myself have bought a new car recently and had to forgive a lot of small and big goof ups from dealer side. I have a small dent right on the bonnet that passed through dealer PDI, which I noticed in my PDI. But then, I didn't go nuts over it. Dealer acknowledged it and agreed to repaint it later and provided me some cash discount. All these were through soft negotiations. It doesn't make sense going for the neck of the other party while negotiating. Everybody should have some breathing space, only then can deals conclude meaningfully.

Last edited by deetee : 15th January 2018 at 22:25. Reason: correction of typos
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Old 15th January 2018, 22:44   #17
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Default Re: TAFE Access, Chennai: I want agreed deal on paper, but dealer refuses

Unlike a real estate transaction, it is quite difficult to deal in such a formal/legal manner with car dealerships. A lot depends on trust and sometimes it needs to be built. Unless you have heard about negative experiences or if you feel uncomfortable dealing with folks at this dealership, you may not need to have such a formal approach.
Talk to them about your non-negotiable points (maybe price & discounts, colour, variant) and get them to agree verbally and follow it up with a summary on email to get them to acknowledge. You may need to clarify about your PDI prior to registration, some dealers may not agree to that.

If you feel uncomfortable dealing with these guys, talk to one or two other dealerships as well.

*Unless you are being offered a discount on a prior year manufactured car, make sure you check the VIN as part of your PDI prior to registration, will save you from headaches later.

Last edited by NPV : 15th January 2018 at 22:49.
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Old 15th January 2018, 22:54   #18
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Default Re: TAFE Access, Chennai: I want agreed deal on paper, but dealer refuses

Usually all the things the dealer offers is given in writing on paper and given with the brochure. That's been my experience. I also had a list of accessories that I wanted fitted and showed them to the sales person and he made out a bill and I paid out, but when I went home did check with the website the dealer quote was on the higher side almost ₹ 3.5k approx and I escalated it with the dealer first and they were silent and I escalated with Honda India and the dealer promptly returned the extra cash to my bank a/c. I agree that you have keep all the things that pervade at the sales closing stage; short of spooking the sales person/dealer. More over Honda India sent me a survey to fill out regards sales experience and they diligently followed it up and called me and asked why were the scores 9 and not a 10 and where they could improve upon and I was candid with them. That's the sort of commitment that builds trust.
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Old 15th January 2018, 23:11   #19
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Default Re: TAFE Access, Chennai: I want agreed deal on paper, but dealer refuses

As far as I know, a dealership makes actual money in service & spare parts division compared to sales. And for a car that is selling reasonably well, no dealership will accept to this list of conditions.

I can understand you want to make sure everything goes well but this is a little over the top. You can perform a PDI before sending the car for registration but once the car is registered in your name, I am not sure if you can actually reject it. The list of accessories will be provided when your car booking is done and you should be able to check them while taking the delivery. The general rule followed by dealerships is to install the accessories in parallel to the registration process or after the registration is complete. And for the registration to happen, you need to release the funds (including the loan).

There may be some cases where some things might have gone wrong. It doesn't mean it will happen to you as well. Try to be positive and hope you successfully get delivery of the vehicle from this or a different dealership.
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Old 15th January 2018, 23:18   #20
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Wow, that seems like some real contract. I recently purchased a car with Honda dealer and got quite a good deal. It was a win win situation where I got everything what I wanted and they got what they wanted. But honestly speaking the terms and conditions shared here may become defacto negotiation T&C by some readers and members like a PDI document. Wait and watch guys.
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Old 16th January 2018, 00:49   #21
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Default Re: TAFE Access, Chennai: I want agreed deal on paper, but dealer refuses

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
That said, I did find your list to be excessively long & some items are unnecessary - better to cover only the important points and leave the obvious ones out of it.
When I skipped the obvious ones, they started playing the fool with me. They reduced the price of accessories and added GST & labour extra. This is not ethical. The price quoted should be all inclusive and as a customer, I wont care whether the money goes to Tata or dealer or govt. All I am interested in, is to know how much cash I need to part with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by narayan View Post
1. Are you an advocate or someone with legal backing that you would drag my business into an uncessary legal wrangle if some condition is not met for no fault of mine
2. Are you someone very active in social media that all it takes would be for you to just publish this on various social media platforms on flimsy grounds and bring disrepute to my business.

While you have your right to get the best deal under the terms and conditions that you desire to, so does the dealer have the right to decline your business ( presumably politely ) and ask you to approach another dealer.

On a related note - I have bought 2 new cars from Tafe Reach ( Mount Road ) and sold 1 car to them. All my interactions have been based on trust + a reasonable amount of documenting commitments. And they have not failed in honoring their commitments.
My first car, the Hyundai Santro was also purchased from TAFE Mount Road.

All I am asking is to support me as a customer. I pay all the money that the dealer asks for and what happens if my car is delivered to an influential person like a politician, goon or police. I will be a sitting duck. If a politician wants a car ASAP, let him speak to Guenter Butschek and get one on the double. There is a thread in TBHP where a BHPian's Cruze was handed over to an influential person.

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Originally Posted by greenhorn View Post
Just thinking aloud here - what is the potential 'unlimited liability' we are talking about here? these seem to be things that anybody buying a new car can and should expect, apart from, perhaps the customer PDI (which may not be allowed as per company process)
I wanted only a visual PDI, just to ensure there aren't any damages and the VIN number matches with the one provided. I do not want to drive the car for even one millimeter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VW2010 View Post
Just walk away. Do not really see a reason why you have to put up with the sales and go through this hassle.

You may not find one dealer giving any of those things in writing and you will be lucky to find one. Most of the times the buying process is with lot of trust and usually that builds relationship. At this point, move out of that dealer and check with Velachery Tata.
The Mount Road one is supposedly better on keeping up the promises and you should check with them as well. Pit one dealer against another and let them know why you would buy with them instead of the other. Always pit one against the other and you may get something in your favor.
Thank you - I moved on and will book from Concorde Velachery / Guindy (behind Hyatt Hotel).

Quote:
Originally Posted by greenhorn View Post
Now, to play the devil's advocate, what do you aim to achieve through this watertight contract? How do you propose to use this if the dealer breaks this contract? We both know that the dealer has the upper hand here. The only thing a written agreement will give you is better leverage if things go wrong.

By taking such a formal approach, you've raised flags at the dealers end. Honestly, there are far better and more creative ways to get a dealer's commitments documented in a non verbal format without spooking them- I'm sure you'll get some good ideas by going through some of the existing dispute threads, and see how things were done there.

You work in IT - if a small new non strategic customer comes to you with some unexpected, but somewhat reasonable terms, and asks you to sign these terms before negotiating commercial terms, or ask for commitments or investments up front, you would be inclined to not qualify that deal, especially if you/your organization does not have sufficient bandwidth.
Sir, all I ask is for honouring the commitment. I want protection from giving my car to an influential person. I pay whatever money the dealer is asking, so am I not eligible to get a factory piece without any damages? If damaged, I do not want the dealership to be talking discounts of 2-3K or accessories worth 4-5K. I want something substantial.

Whatever I promise verbally, will be documented and the contract would be signed by both parties and then the work starts in IT industry. I won't promise something that I cant stand by. That's me at least.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aravind.anand View Post
I am sorry, if I were running a dealership I simply would not accept to this condition. What would I do with a car that is registered to the customer who is unwilling to take delivery?
There are customers who are shrewd and try to milk the dealerships too - so what if one such customer blackmails me with this document citing a small scratch on a part that is not even visible?
I am not saying that a scratch should be accepted by the customer - we all know that the customer is the king, but there could be tough situations where either the customer or the dealer, or maybe both would have to agree on a small compromise - not taking delivery of a registered car is not going to be an option.
That is what I am doing. I am moving on to dealers who are offering me a written commitment on all the above conditions.

The dealers aren't so customer friendly either. Ask the BHPian who was delivered a repainted compass, a fake Skoda Limited Edition and the EcoSport that was damaged in the workshop. I haven't forgotten the Stolen VW Jetta fiasco either. In the above scenarios, without escalation, please tell me, which of the dealers offered the best sweetener? None as far as I know. Dealers finally say this is all we can do. Take it or leave it. Why should a customer face such treatment for no fault of his?

I am ready to accept a repainted Nexon, if I am given a cash discount of 40K or let's say all periodic services are free from the dealer's side. I need not pay a rupee for any normal regular periodic service for four years. I honestly do not want dealers to be talking 5K accessories is the best we can do. Take it or leave it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tapish View Post
As much as I agree with your point about being the customer and hence within your right to ask for these in writing, for a dealership your email has "Troublemaker" written right there.
Many of the points below may not be in the absolute control of the dealership and with your conditions "on the spot" "as soon as truck leaves the factory" the dealership is not going to take any responsibility in writing.
Damage during transit: again, there may be things that happen and can be taken care of at the dealer's end.
Also, your condition with regard to the delay in payment is unacceptable to any businessman. If he has another customer with ready payment, why should he go with you (using your same logic). It seems you want him to accept your delays and want to make this a really tight transaction for him.
I don't look at it as a trouble maker. I am not asking anything illegal or unethical. All I ask is to allocate a car to me and deliver the same car to me in factory condition. I don't want a fiasco of the repainted Compass and as a compromise take 5K accessories free. I will take a repainted Nexon provided I am compensated 40K and not 4K. Also, the payment that we make is for a factory condition car and not a repainted or damaged car. Will the dealership accept 5% of the money in demonetized currency or say 5% in some amazon vouchers? I am sure they wont. When I pay full money, I think I am justified in asking for a dent-free car. Else, compensate me real sweet. Not 3K or 4K or 5K best.

Analogy: I pay 500/- for a tomato soup in a 5 star hotel and find a fly in it. How would I feel if the restaurant chef or manager comes and tells me, "Sir it's just one fly. How much soup can it drink?" When I pay 500/-, what the hotel asks, am I not within my rights to ask for a perfect product?

Agreed. But, if it's bank policy to take four days of processing, as a customer how should I handle it. It is like running inside a train. Even if taken from dealer, the loan executive mentions three-four days to process the loan. Anyway, he has an 11K advance and also ~ 1,10,000 as an old car exchange. This should say that I am making a deal and finance is under process.

Quote:
Originally Posted by akshay380 View Post
Wow. If I was running this dealership I'll rather ask you to walk away and focus my time on some mutually trustworthy customer. To me, your agreement looks like a ploy to somehow create legal trouble for the dealership and milk them using the document later. Just my 2p.
This is what I have done. I have moved on to the other dealer, who is ready to accept my terms in writing. Also, as I have said, what I ask is just to safeguard me from the unscrupulous dealers. I am a simple, common TDS, tax payer with no police or political or goon contacts. Now, if I am cheated, who will support me. All I ask for is an ethical deal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dileepcm View Post
Very interesting conversation.
Being a consultant who works at client locations most of the times, I always stand for written documentations - There are absolutely no alternate ways.
However I personally think that the 'contract' you have copied above needs to be:
1. A trust building document in the first place. With out a mutual trust, business simply does not happen regardless of its size and shape.
2. Generating more positive energy than focusing on all possible wrongs.
3. Mutually realistic - meaning terms and their hardness or softness should be mutually distributed across both parties.
They offered a verbal discount of 12% on 1.7 lacs of accessories i.e. 20,400 and now they say we can't offer more than 2000/- . If I had paid and they blatantly deny having said 12%, where should I bang my head? Similarly, they offered 1.1 lacs for my Santro and later they say we can't pay more than 50K, what should I do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nissan1180 View Post
You're right in trying to have a written contract before purchasing the car. But in business, trust matters more than a printed document. If I were employed by either Tata or the dealership, I'd not sign this clause. No company would. No dealer would. If there are very minor flaws in the car that is allotted to you ( minor scratch on a piece of plastic that can be replaced in 5 minutes etc.), that's no ground for rejecting a car. No company will tolerate that. I do not think you'll find a dealer anywhere in this country or in any other country from any brand who would sign your contract. I also feel that the dealership has been unexpectedly polite in refusing this request. This goes on to show that they're becoming professional.

If you're still interested in the Nexon, give them a chance and go for a good hard negotiation process. I do not think that the dealer has the authority to sign a legal document with the customer. Anything of this sort has to go through the company and honestly, if they are providing you a 4 year warranty that covers everything, I don't know why they'd accede to your demand for a more specific document. Thanks.
Sir, I don't demand a replacement for a small scratch, but say in a scenario like where a BHPian was sold a repainted Compass, I need a real sweetener - say 40K cash discount. I don't want 4-5K accessories free of cost and then take it or leave it. I need a factory finish car and I am paying whatever money is being asked. Why should i settle for a damaged car?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nonstop-driver View Post
Let me also highlight that even a written commitment is worth junk in India. When we purchased our Creta, my Dad wrote down the entire offer along with the resale value of the old car. The sales agents (two of them) agreed to it. Booking amount was paid.

The ordered vehicle arrived 30 days later and on the day of payment, the dealer refused to honour those discounts and resale value. The reasons were ridiculous, ranging from the commitment was made by juniours who aren't aware to the old car has done an additional 1500kms during this period.

The vehicle was standing right there in their showroom and we walked off. It was a matter of some rs. 35,000 on a 16 lacs car but the conduct was pathetic. Anyway, the dealer agreed and honoured it.

And then called up 3 days after taking delivery asking for rs. 11,000 as bank charges for making payment by card
At least having a written proof is better than having no proof at all. I am just trying to be safe and not fall prey to the dealer's tactics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hayek View Post
I think lots of folks have made the points before - I am not surprised that the dealer refused to agree to this is writing. I am somewhat surprised the salesperson agreed to this even verbally - some of your terms would not be economically viable for anyone (eg points 6 and 7). All you need while buying a car is the following:

1) Ability to pick your insurance vendor
2) Ability to carry out PDI before releasing final payment / registration
3) The right to know deal terms before releasing final payment - viz final price, any buy back terms, and accessories being bundled

Once you approve the PDI and release payment, the car is yours. Insurance / warranty will cover your for risks. And if you fail to pay in a reasonable time after PDI, the dealer is free to reallocate the car.

The Customer may be King - but no business can afford to provide every service every King demands.
They weren't giving anything in writing including the 12% accessories discount and the 1.1 lac old car price or anything else. That looks shady. They could have at least told, we cant do 1, 2, 4, but all others are okay sir.

Most banks take 3-4 days to release the payment after sharing the VIN number. Please tell me, as a customer, what should I do to speed up the disbursement. The dealership cannot expect that whoever buys a car would have the on-road price as disposable cash. In a dealership, 98+ % of sales is through loans only. They have to wait a reasonable 3-4 days. I am not telling them to wait a month. Secondly they have the old car money (1.1 lacs) and also 11K booking amount.

I have no trust in Indians for verbal commitments. If something is said, put it on paper.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AMG Power View Post
If the dealership had to have agreements with every customer for such long lists, they might as well shut shop.
As it is, most dealerships run on wafer thin margins and responding to such customer requirements would be of least interest to them.
Such requirements would not be put as an agreement even by the German dealerships. Let alone the poor Tata dealer.
If one can't give it in writing, let them not make a verbal commitment. If they cannot offer 12% discount, let them not say it. Let them say, only 5% is possible and honor it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ravib View Post
Most of the points are covered by our fellow members. I agree this is way too excessive list of conditions than what is reasonable and can be mutually honored. Moreover, the conditions are one sided and not neutral. For e.g. what if you don't make on time payment. What are you expecting Dealer to do at that point in your view? Sorry i am not hard at you or your intention, but i think the approach seems to be very rigid and hard and doesn't move things in positive direction and help the customer or the dealer.
My 2 cents and a friendly advise! Hope you don't mind.
Good luck with your purchase as Tata Nexon is an excellent car
Drive Safe
Absolutely Sir - please tell me, if they make a verbal commitment and later conveniently forget it, who is at a loss? How should I handle it or escalate it? Customer care / courts would ask for written proof.

Quote:
Originally Posted by deetee View Post
If a customer appears to be a potential liability for it, every business has the full right to back off and reject the proposal before any money exchanges hands. As long as no money is exchanged and no terms are committed, everything that has happened is pure sales talk. At such stage, one has to just move on to another dealer. But even there, negotiations and deals should be made smartly.

Deals can be made with some form of reproducible evidence (recorded calls, whatsapp conversations, signed and stamped quotations, partial payments with unconditional refunds etc.,.). But asking to sign this kind of watertight contracts raises too many eyebrows .
lly.
Many dealers are agreeing to these terms and I am buying from them. All above conditions are just to make an ethical deal to avoid damage and political influence.

I believe its the dealers responsibility to deliver the promised car in factory condition to me. If damaged, I will take the damaged car with a real sweetener and not 5K accessories.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NPV View Post
Unlike a real estate transaction, it is quite difficult to deal in such a formal/legal manner with car dealerships. A lot depends on trust and sometimes it needs to be built. Unless you have heard about negative experiences or if you feel uncomfortable dealing with folks at this dealership, you may not need to have such a formal approach.
Talk to them about your non-negotiable points (maybe price & discounts, colour, variant) and get them to agree verbally and follow it up with a summary on email to get them to acknowledge. You may need to clarify about your PDI prior to registration, some dealers may not agree to that.

If you feel uncomfortable dealing with these guys, talk to one or two other dealerships as well.

*Unless you are being offered a discount on a prior year manufactured car, make sure you check the VIN as part of your PDI prior to registration, will save you from headaches later.
Dealers have agreed and I am going to buy from them. I asked for visual PDI only, that too to check the VIN number and colour. I don't want to drive the car for even a millimeter

Quote:
Originally Posted by Durango Dude View Post
Usually all the things the dealer offers is given in writing on paper and given with the brochure. That's been my experience. I also had a list of accessories that I wanted fitted and showed them to the sales person and he made out a bill and I paid out, but when I went home did check with the website the dealer quote was on the higher side almost ₹ 3.5k approx and I escalated it with the dealer first and they were silent and I escalated with Honda India and the dealer promptly returned the extra cash to my bank a/c. I agree that you have keep all the things that pervade at the sales closing stage; short of spooking the sales person/dealer. More over Honda India sent me a survey to fill out regards sales experience and they diligently followed it up and called me and asked why were the scores 9 and not a 10 and where they could improve upon and I was candid with them. That's the sort of commitment that builds trust.
Right - This is exactly what I am doing. They offer me a deal verbally. I ask them to put it on paper and they hesitate. This rings alarm bells for me. Secondly, they tried to play games quoting a lower price, but adding GST & fitting / labour charges. There is no way customers can install accessories on their own.

Quote:
Originally Posted by satan's_valet View Post
As far as I know, a dealership makes actual money in service & spare parts division compared to sales. And for a car that is selling reasonably well, no dealership will accept to this list of conditions.

I can understand you want to make sure everything goes well, but this is a little over the top. You can perform a PDI before sending the car for registration, but once the car is registered in your name, I am not sure if you can actually reject it. The list of accessories will be provided when your car booking is done and you should be able to check them while taking the delivery. The general rule followed by dealerships is to install the accessories parallel to the registration process or after the registration is complete. And for the registration to happen, you need to release funds (including the loan).

There may be some cases where some things might have gone wrong. It doesn't mean it will happen to you as well. Try to be positive and hope you successfully get delivery of the vehicle from this or a different dealership.
I am going to a different dealership, but there have been instances even for the Nexon, where accessory money has been collected, but they aren't available for many many months. Also, I want to prevent them from selling my accessories to another influential person.

Quote:
Originally Posted by adi_gt View Post
Wow, that seems like some real contract. I recently purchased a car with Honda dealer and got quite a good deal. It was a win win situation where I got everything what I wanted and they got what they wanted. But honestly speaking the terms and conditions shared here may become defacto negotiation T&C by some readers and members like a PDI document. Wait and watch guys.
Clean and simple, if it isn't documented, how should I fight for it. If they say 12% verbally and later say we didn't commit, I can do only 1% discount, take it or leave it, what should i do. Written proof will get me sympathy and decisions in my favor. Verbal commitments aren't trustworthy, at least in India.

Last edited by Aditya : 16th January 2018 at 20:40. Reason: Typos
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Old 16th January 2018, 01:12   #22
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Default Re: TAFE Access, Chennai: I want agreed deal on paper, but dealer refuses

Guys, I drafted the points, after reading TBHP threads and incidents faced by various people. People share their experience to warn others of malpractices.

further to my mail, Please find reasons below and please suggest how to overcome or correct the same.

1) No one takes cerdit card charges, even vegetable vendor, but I am charged 2.5% . Why? Anyway, I agreed to pay through instruments like DD or cheque or book through website.

2) Some XUV and Brezza customers have mentioned that the sales executive entered the booking into the system only couple of days after the payment. This pushes my wait list up and also increases my delivery time. This is why i ask for the CRM reference number immediately.

3) Dealer quoted 36K insurance and open shopping on bankbazaar and directly reaching out the provider (Tata AIG Motor), got me a quote of 23K for the same bumper to bumper. If i higgle haggle with the call centre folks and send them a counter quote, I am sure they would come down to 20 or 21K. Why should I pay 16K extra to the dealer unnecassarily.

4) Ask the plight of the BHPian who booked a Cruze and only to find his preferred variant being delivered to an influential person, who was behind the waitlist que. By asking the VIN, i can be assured that I would get the car allocated at the factory and it wont go to any other influential person. As i have ranted earlier, If an influential person needs a nexon, let him call Guenter Butschek and get it on the double.

5) & 6) Enough has been said on TBHP about PDI and its almost like a rule to do a PDI before taking delivery. I insist this so as to prevent the dealer from pulling a fast one and try to sell me a 2017 VIN as a 2018 Vin. I insist on a 2018 VIN as there arent any discounts on Nexon. As an analogy, I cant marry a girl by looking at her name or photo. I need to look at her in person, before i tie the knot.

7) Ask the plight of the BHPian who paid 20+ lacs for his compass only to be sold a repainted one. Where was dealer ethics here?

8) Accessories are offered at a 12% discount to me. If any other nexon customer is ready to pay MRP for the accessory, there is a probablity it would be sold to him, as dealer makes more money. My interest isnt safeguarded here. On another note, they mentioned fitting labout charges and GST extra. This is a very convnient way to make some more money. I believe in the all inclusive price.

9) People in india are very reluctant to return hard cash. They always want it to be adjusted against some service or vouchers etc. Since HDFC and other banks pay the full amount directly, to the dealer, I do not have control. This is why i explicitly mention to adjust the advance and old car resale against accessories.

10) My financial calculations / loan calculations are based on assuming 1.1 lacs for my old car, if they take it for 70 or 50K at a later stage, It will pinch my pocket. I am already buying 1.7 lacs of orignal accessories and 30K worth non geniune accessories from the market like TPMS, CR70 sunfilm, polishing/waxing/underbody treatment etc. Another 30K - 40K from my pocket would pinch me greatly.

Please tell me how to handle the above scenarios, if the trust is broken and the verbal commitment is not honored. If honored verbally, I will write an excellent thread on TBHP and appreciate them.

I am ready to buy on verbal trust, if someone can give me an assurance that dealer wont cheat and if he cheats customer care / tata / courts would support me in-toto.

Last edited by scopriobharath : 16th January 2018 at 01:33.
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Old 16th January 2018, 07:49   #23
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Default Re: TAFE Access, Chennai: I want agreed deal on paper, but dealer refuses

Well, you have every right to be careful at your end and you have to get most of conditions in writing , but your terms and conditions don't have to be so water tight. Observe the body language of your sales advisor when he is making commitments, and if you sense a lack of seriousness, you should walk away.

In any case , I somehow get a sense that things won't work out well for you at this dealership, and, I think you should restart negotiations at a different dealership.

Last edited by F150 : 16th January 2018 at 07:50.
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Old 16th January 2018, 08:34   #24
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Default Re: TAFE Access, Chennai: I want agreed deal on paper, but dealer refuses

If I have to think on neutral grounds

Quote:
Originally Posted by scopriobharath View Post
2) Booking reference number (after logging into CRM) will be provided on the spot.
What if system is down? Give me a reasonable time of 24 hours and I will provide

Quote:
3) Insurance will be taken outside only, as per customer’s choice of insurance provider.
Ok. As a dealer, my business is to sell car and not insurance and I am happy as long as I am able to sell what I am supposed to

Quote:
4) VIN Number should be shared as soon as transport-truck leaves the factory and the same VIN vehicle should be allotted to customer, assuming PDI doesn’t fail.
More reasonable wording would be to "communicate VIN number as soon as dealer has the information"

Quote:
5) PDI will be done by customer at yard and only after successful confirmation from customer side, vehicle should proceed for registration.
Control is with the customer. Don't instruct bank to release full payment until you communicate. Dealer can't take car for registration until full payment is received. You perform PDI and then instruct bank and give 2 days to dealer to complete registration. Problem solved

Quote:
6) There will be a pre-delivery PDI again, performed by customer.
This is a reasonable expectation. Ideally, I would be hopeful of no damages during registration transit but such cases needs to be dealt by escalations and can't have predefined commitments.

Quote:
7) If there is any kind of damage during transit, before delivery, including repainting / fixing the damage at workshop level, the vehicle wouldn’t be accepted by customer, irrespective of whether its registered or not. The vehicle should be in factory condition.
Again, your PDI before registration can be covered but post registration has to be dealt on actual case

Quote:
8) All accessories mentioned in the separate mail should be installed prior to delivery.
OK, if you make payment

Quote:
9) It might take up-to four business days to release the payment from bank financier’s side (HDFC Bank). There should be no pressure-tactics to threaten to allocate the booking to someone else. However, we will push the financier to disburse at the earliest.
Loan approval is generally quicker. When you book your car, you would have already have loan approval and it should take maximum a week for disbursement thereafter. And, by the time your car arrives with dealer, your loan is ready for disbursement at your word go. As a dealer, I take stock from company at short term loans and I am liable to pay daily interest, why should I bear those interest charges for more than reasonable time?

Quote:
11) Exchange price for 2007 Hyundai Santro TN 07 AL 7268 charming grey limited edition car, run about 60,000 kms is 1,10,000/- . Car will be handed over to Tafe by Feb 3rd week or delivery of new car, whichever is earlier. As discussed need the car due to my night shift at work.
What if your car is not in the same condition when you decide to handover. Like you are entitled to PDI and, may, renegotiate based on PDI, dealer is entitled to same

Accessories Conditions:

Quote:
4) Payment will be made only after seeing all accessories in person, physically (no photos).
What if you don't honor because there was minor niggle with the car during PDI and just because you have upper hand, you use it unfairly. You are liable to make payment at the earliest and ideally before installation. If you are so uncertain, take accesssories from more convenient place

Quote:
6) No advance payment will be made. Payment will be made only after inspecting the accessories in person.
same as point 4 above


Mod Note : Please avoid responding within quoted post. It becomes difficult to maintain flow of responses by other members

Last edited by ampere : 16th January 2018 at 09:10. Reason: Fixed in quote responses
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Old 16th January 2018, 09:40   #25
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Default Re: TAFE Access, Chennai: I want agreed deal on paper, but dealer refuses

Quote:
Originally Posted by scopriobharath View Post
I am ready to buy on verbal trust, if someone can give me an assurance that dealer wont cheat and if he cheats customer care / tata / courts would support me in-toto.
You are completely justified in making your checklist and trying to avoid any risk associated with the purchase. However, when I look at the list with an outsider's perspective, it seems that all obligations lie with the dealer and none with you (for example, payment). It is valid that the dealer will follow up for payment if it is overdue. As stated by other bhpians, you give some you take some..

No offence meant, but to someone in the dealership world so much in black and white is usually a red flag. It is almost like someone willing to go for their first date, only to see the draft of a pre nuptial agreement as a prerequisite for the date.

While I see the merits of documenting these topics, please also try to consider whom you are dealing with. Also, at the end of the day you may need to consider what value this document (even if signed or approved via email) would hold in any court; if the matter comes to that stage. In other words, where would you intend to use it?

Last edited by selfdrive : 16th January 2018 at 09:42.
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Old 16th January 2018, 09:43   #26
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Default Re: TAFE Access, Chennai: I want agreed deal on paper, but dealer refuses

Quote:
Originally Posted by scopriobharath View Post
Verbal commitments arent trustable, at least in India.
I am surprised that this august forum members found your terms & conditions rigid, despite reading multiple accounts of cheating by dealers and in some cases manufacturers themselves. I laud your efforts to safeguard your interests as a customer. I work in IT service industry and I know how customer words contracts (SOW) carefully since they pump funds to projects per my employer's pricing chart, fair industry practice. I will be very glad if more forum members follow this precedent of seeking written assurances at each checkpoint of purchase process.

I have two experiences to share :

Back in 2012, I bought Honda Brio. Overall booking experience was smooth and PDI (pre accessory fitting) was satisfactory. I had given clear list of accessories to be fitted over email/SMS and oral instructions (multiple times), yet on the delivery day I found car to be fitted with car seat covers which was not part of the list. Since I had part payment due on delivery day, they had included car seat price in the final bill. I instructed them to remove the seat covers and deduct applicable amount from final bill. However, dealership initially argued it was fitted per my requirements, I conveniently opened mailbox to show them my preferred list from mails sent earlier.
They began convincing me with benefits of seat covers and when I failed to budge, the sales guy pitched that cover is useless if removed after fitting (i don't buy that argument), I said I will take it if it is sold to me at 1/3rd of cost printed on bill and he finally agreed after much deliberation.

Fast forward, 2016 Feb and I was looking for my second car and zeroed in on new Figo T+ Diesel, one dealer had this variant with my choice of color but was 2015 Dec VIN. After much push, I got an excellent deal and one of agreed item was extended warranty to be included part of it. However dealer tried to act sly by saying he never promised me that. Since I had entire deal written agreed over a email chain, I could easily hammer his head and make him remember his commitments. Ext. warranty document landed at my doorstep within few days.

I am not sure if you would like to get your terms on a stamp paper but written communication helps. More power to you!

Last edited by Thilak29 : 16th January 2018 at 10:05.
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Old 16th January 2018, 10:02   #27
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Default Re: TAFE Access, Chennai: I want agreed deal on paper, but dealer refuses

I feel you are coming from the right place but the approach may be wrong. If you have another dealer willing to work with your conditions, just go ahead. Not all dealers approach to business the same way.

If you have only one dealer, remember this is a business deal. It should be a win-win for the dealer and you. Use accessories, insurance etc, as points to negotiate. Ex. If they are willing to give you the CRM# or VIN# you will buy the accessories, else you will not buy it from them. etc.

I agree that you need the discount etc, to be documented. The re-paint part is harsh, the only way to avoid this is buying a car in stock, not sure if its possible with Nexon.
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Old 16th January 2018, 10:19   #28
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Default Re: TAFE Access, Chennai: I want agreed deal on paper, but dealer refuses

Honestly Im amazed at people siding with the dealership here. when you book a car, their booking forms have terms and conditions that are one sided, including "price on delivery will be applicable". Ive not seen anyone question this despite the fact that under contract law, this clause is illegal. The moment there is an offer and acceptance, the contract is valid and binding, and this clause creates whats called a "contingent contract".

IMHO the OP is well justified in what he planned to do. Its his hard earned money and he has every right to protect it by all legal means possible.

As a lawyer, I can tell you that if he got the dealership to acknowledge all that he was asking for, and then the dealer reneged on his commitment, the customer would have a very strong case in the consumer forum.

Given how most car dealers are "paragons of virtue", basing such a large ticket item on trust is not the wisest thing to do IMHO. every time Ive bought a car, Ive got all commercial items committed on paper with the dealer stamp and if the dealer was unwilling then I walk away.

Why would you trust a dealer who is not even willing to stand by his own word? you are the one putting your money down, not the dealer, so you have every right to get EXACTLY what you are paying for, period.
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Old 16th January 2018, 10:19   #29
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Default Re: TAFE Access, Chennai: I want agreed deal on paper, but dealer refuses

While I understand that written documentation gives clear leverage, too much insistence on having everything written down may hurt the mutual trust which might cause a long-term damage.

This incident reminds me of my RC 390 purchase. I was 25 year old then and had gone with friends to book the bike on launch day and paid booking amount even when display bike was a week away. I then waited for a month for delivery and as luck would have it, I could either take delivery on Saturday (declined due to auspicious reasons ) or couple of weeks later due to my travel commitments. I talked to dealer and he agreed to deliver on Sunday. Now Sunday morning, I call up the dealer to inform I am coming and he drops the bomb that he will deliver bike only on 100% payment. This wasn't possible now since it was Sunday and I didn't have so much cash at hand. I was heartbroken. Still I told let me come to dealership and we'll see how it goes. I reached there with my parents and the dealer's body language suddenly changed. That's when I realised that all this while I was a 25 year old guy buying a bike worth over 2 lakh. Seeing my parents gave him the confidence and I was able to ride away making only around 75% payment with rest transferred on Monday.

To summarise, I got the bike I desired on the day I wanted as per my convenience only because I could build trust. If I had gone for written commitments and watertight agreement, I guess dealer would have simply declined to deliver without payment and the bike would have gone to someone else since there was long waitlist.
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Old 16th January 2018, 12:21   #30
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Default Re: TAFE Access, Chennai: I want agreed deal on paper, but dealer refuses

I echo the general sentiments of the thread that while we should take all reasonable measures to safeguard our interested,
I find many conditions not necessary and not contusive to build mutual trust and rapport.

Adding few points from my side:

Quote:
Originally Posted by scopriobharath View Post
1) No one takes cerdit card charges, even vegetable vendor, but I am charged 2.5% .
Not ethical and dealership should not charge it.

Quote:
2) Some XUV and Brezza customers have mentioned that the sales executive entered the booking into the system only couple of days after the payment. This pushes my wait list up and also increases my delivery time. This is why i ask for the CRM reference number immediately.
Not sure if all bookings are entered into CRM in real time and even if it is, unless we can independently verify the CRM number and the backlogs, it is good to have but not much of a value-add, IMHO. What if the dealer says that your CRM number is still in queue? How will we verify it? I am not sure if call centre gives the CRM number updates - if yes, it is good.

The load is usually despatched from the factory when there are certain numbers of orders, so practically, it may not make a difference if the booking is entered in CRM on the very same day or next day (Unless you are really unlucky and your booking is moved to next load due to the current lot reaching threshold number)

Quote:
3) Dealer quoted 36K insurance and open shopping on bankbazaar and directly reaching out the provider (Tata AIG Motor), got me a quote of 23K for the same bumper to bumper.
It is your right and most of the dealers across brands now agrees with this.

Quote:
4) Ask the plight of the BHPian who booked a Cruze and only to find his preferred variant being delivered to an influential person, who was behind the waitlist que. By asking the VIN, i can be assured that I would get the car allocated at the factory and it wont go to any other influential person. As i have ranted earlier, If an influential person needs a nexon, let him call Guenter Butschek and get it on the double.
Do they allocate the car at the factory itself? If yes, what if you are not happy with the car after doing the PDI? Will you wait for the fresh load to come from the factory, or will you look at another specimen in the yard? I think it is the dealer who allocates the VIN to each booking, and it may be better for you as a customer to have the option to choose the car you like from the stock.

Quote:
5) & 6) Enough has been said on TBHP about PDI and its almost like a rule to do a PDI before taking delivery. I insist this so as to prevent the dealer from pulling a fast one and try to sell me a 2017 VIN as a 2018 Vin. I insist on a 2018 VIN as there arent any discounts on Nexon. As an analogy, I cant marry a girl by looking at her name or photo. I need to look at her in person, before i tie the knot.
PDI before registration is a must and if the car does not meet your satisfaction, it should be rejected. However, once it is registered, it is not so easy to change the car. If you are so paranoid about it, why don't you try to get it registered by yourself? I have been in your shoes twice and I took the easy way out - I got the registration done by myself. Did the PDI, took delivery, drove to RTO for registration and then got the accessories installed at my leisure at a place where I am comfortable with.

You can also do the same - get the car delivered, get it registered, drive it back to the dealer and get the accessories fitted.

Quote:
7) Ask the plight of the BHPian who paid 20+ lacs for his compass only to be sold a repainted one. Where was dealer ethics here?
It is a normal practice to fix minor issues at dealership end before the delivery, across all brands. Do you really think the dealer will send back the car to factory if a panel got a scratch and it needs to be repainted\replaced?

But, it is our right to ask for a factory fresh piece and if you suspect that the car has been fixed at dealer end, reject it before the registration. That is why all of us should do a detailed PDI before the car goes for registration.

On a side note, if we are talking about the same case of Jeep Compass, a brand new door was dispatched from the factory and was replaced at the ASS without any fuss.

Quote:
8) Accessories are offered at a 12% discount to me. If any other nexon customer is ready to pay MRP for the accessory, there is a probablity it would be sold to him, as dealer makes more money. My interest isnt safeguarded here. On another note, they mentioned fitting labout charges and GST extra. This is a very convnient way to make some more money. I believe in the all inclusive price.
Tell me one reason why dealer should suffer his margin to safeguard your interest? You have been writing in multiple places that you are paying Tata\TAFE what they are asking and here you are asking them to safeguard your interest by selling accessories at 12% discount - I find it contradictory

But yes, I do agree that if the dealer offers an accessory, he should keep it reserved for you and I would personally trust building a rapport with the dealer \ accessory guy than a watertight written agreement for the same. But then, that is just me.

You prefer an all-inclusive price, while dealer prefers a breakdown approach - cant really find fault with either, as long as both are clear on the expectations. If we do not want to get cheated out of our hard earned money, we need to be vigilant. Get the breakdown cost from the dealer and negotiate on that.

Quote:

9) People in india are very reluctant to return hard cash. They always want it to be adjusted against some service or vouchers etc. Since HDFC and other banks pay the full amount directly, to the dealer, I do not have control. This is why i explicitly mention to adjust the advance and old car resale against accessories.
If the bank is paying 100% on road price, you already have surplus amount with the dealer and can use it for accessories. I think even the dealer will prefer this than return hard cash to you, so this may be a win-win for both.

Quote:
10) My financial calculations / loan calculations are based on assuming 1.1 lacs for my old car, if they take it for 70 or 50K at a later stage, It will pinch my pocket. I am already buying 1.7 lacs of orignal accessories and 30K worth non geniune accessories from the market like TPMS, CR70 sunfilm, polishing/waxing/underbody treatment etc. Another 30K - 40K from my pocket would pinch me greatly.
Just to play devil's advocate, what if (God forbid) something happens to your Santro which forces the dealer to re-evaluate the price? My honest advice is if you can't take it all in one go, get the car and add the accessories one by one. Keep some margin for any eventualities. At any case, you will be paying for the accessories at the time of installation, so why don't you get the car registered, make sure your finances are in order and then proceed with the accessory plan? Worst comes to worst, you can always cut down what you want and get what you need.

Quote:
Please tell me how to handle the above scenarios, if the trust is broken and the verbal commitment is not honored. If honored verbally, I will write an excellent thread on TBHP and appreciate them.

I am ready to buy on verbal trust, if someone can give me an assurance that dealer wont cheat and if he cheats customer care / tata / courts would support me in-toto.
I think the best way is, sum up your expectations, draft an e-mail (but with a bit more soft language) and send it to the dealer and get them agree on it via reply. If things go wrong, you can show the e-mail to negotiate. They may readily do it over e-mail than countersign a drafter agreement on paper.

--Anoop

Last edited by SDP : 18th January 2018 at 09:45. Reason: Fixing broken quote tag
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