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Old 9th July 2008, 22:29   #61
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Forgot to say there are enough evidences remaining even after polishing. Discolouration is there in the door and bumper. In the bonnet, repainting is evident if we examine carefully. I have taken the photograph of the door.

What worries me more is that I have to take the car to the dealer for service. In kerala there is only one honda dealer. How can I trust them?

Is anybody know about a body/institution who can certify the defects in my car, so can I produce it as an evidence in the court. Please let me know
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Old 9th July 2008, 22:42   #62
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hi jm
somewhere in this site i read bhpians asking a owner who faced similar situation, to contact magazines like auto india , etc and if you subscribe those journals they will publish your case/problem with a clear mentioning of the dealer's name and make of the car with photos. why cant you try that way alongside?

sorry for this but can be started a new thread.
for administrators, if possible, why not teambhp can give legal advices through a lawyer in the forum (or appointing a lawyer if the concerned person wishes) to help the bhpians facing problem like this. alternatively a weekly answer to members querries can be posted with the help of the experts in the concerned fields. A car owner right from purchase and until disposing it, faces problems with dealers, manufacturers, banks financing the loans, insurance agencies, natural calamaties, police, service stations, etc. this is like what newspapers doing but w.r.t automobiles this site is doing great and so this suggestion. this i am writing after reading this site for three months and found that in any issue/any post there are several views regarding a particular point and members discussing themselves, agreeing/disagreeing with one person but the same point is counter corrected by another.. like dragging too much, i feel. for any post discussion is good, i know but 6 persons discussing somepoint and seventh one correcting it, is something like.. sorry if i am wrong. ofcourse money would be an issue for this but members contribution will help. (if i know something regarding cars, that is because of this site).
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Old 9th July 2008, 23:15   #63
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Dude..

Feel real bad for the ordeal you are going through...

Buying a dream car with hard earned money and getting cheated .. sucks..

I hope Honda gives you a new car, and as also being a Honda owner I expect them to.

As far the bonnet paint job is concerned, if I am not wrong some professional places have gauges which measure paint thickness non destructively.

Find such a place and measure the bonnet's paint thickness. Compare with a non painted panel. Take pictures and send to Honda + dealer. Might help you prove your point.
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Old 9th July 2008, 23:19   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmathew View Post
Forgot to say there are enough evidences remaining even after polishing. Discolouration is there in the door and bumper. In the bonnet, repainting is evident if we examine carefully. I have taken the photograph of the door.

What worries me more is that I have to take the car to the dealer for service. In kerala there is only one honda dealer. How can I trust them?

Is anybody know about a body/institution who can certify the defects in my car, so can I produce it as an evidence in the court. Please let me know
Mr. Mathew, I don't have any idea about the legalities of the issue but I do feel that if you are fighting with a company and asking them to replace a vehicle then your case is weakened by the fact that while you are arguing that you got a defective vehicle and at the same time, you are using it everyday. Maybe the gurus of the forum will be able to advice you better.
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Old 10th July 2008, 01:42   #65
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SumitB;898051]Mr. Mathew, I don't have any idea about the legalities of the issue but I do feel that if you are fighting with a company and asking them to replace a vehicle then your case is weakened by the fact that while you are arguing that you got a defective vehicle and at the same time, you are using it everyday. Maybe the gurus of the forum will be able to advice you better.
Err, What would you do Sumit, if you spent 12L on a car and ended up in the same situation. Would you rather walk to work adding more misery to your heart, considering that there are more civics on the road? The guy is doing the best he can to get things sorted. Hell mate, if he has to live with this "lemon" car for the rest of his life, he will have to, so why stop him from using this further? There's nothing really wrong with the engine so "techincially" he's ok but it's the emotional bit which is hurting him more than anything else. Asking him to park his car off, I would only do that when Honda tells me that they are replacing the car and that I should not use the car any further. Hell, I would still use it even if they offer it to me in writing and probably would want to give them back the car as a metal ball. Anyways, that's just me.

JM - here's what I think you could do
1) take photographs of that car immediately along with a date and time. Do this daily for a period of one week. The photographs must clearly show the discoloration/defect. Telling the judge to look at those photo's and convincing him will be any day easier than getting some techinical paper handed out to him. Not too sure if we have many sitting judges here on bhp who'll understand what a turbo or what a teflon is. Hence, the photographs.
2) Make sure that you have sent registered post to the "dealer" and complaints to Honda other than e mails. For reasons, beyond my comprehension, the judiciary, considers this as a proof. E-mails are not there yet.
3) Get the media involved. Apparently, it's clear that the Dealer is not really ready to replace the car at his end and if at all it is Honda's fault, he's not ready to fight it out with them internally. As far he's concerned, it's your car and he's got nothing too loose. You should have enough evidence, such as photographs, work shop visit details, blah blah blah soon, so that later he can't say that the paint faded, over a period of time.
At this point of time we don't know who the culprit really is but as far as I understand, once the dealer receives the car from the company, it's his for taking. Dents, scratches, anything else, the company wont' replace, untill and unless it's a MAJOR menchanical issue like the entire system going Kaput. Since you're case is on the cosmetic side, I really have my doubts if the company will change the car and the dealer will get away with it. As a result, he does not have any problems waiting. He may be under the impression that you might give up, but take a media person along, someone you happen to know real well, set up a good strategy and then hoodwink him. Kehtein hain na "laaton ke bhoot, baaton sey nahin maantey."

4) Try checking with other owners, people who brought their cars from this dealer, if they faced any such issues. No matter how trivial they are. That would be really helpful. It may not be easy, but it's really significant. If they did face similar problems, would they be comfortable going forward with you to the media or the judiciary to help you out. If not, take copies of the repair sheets that they would have and thank them for their time and co-operation.

5) Try to find out where is the dealers stock yard. Try to see if there are other cars in similar state, lying around.

6) Try speaking with other people who have gone into litigation against dealers, either here on team-bhp or elsewhere, and understand the process from them. This would help you understand the system better and give you a 1up.

7) Think, think and think (and don't loose hope)
Yes. Try to recollect every little thing possible, the dealer said to you while he was handing you over the delivery. Try to recollect anything that appeared odd to you but you probably ignored it then in excitement.

And last but certainly not the least mate, we're there for you. We all are there to support you and considering that you have the administrator of the site put up your problem on his home page, (something which "should" show up on every search engine's top 5 searches each time the word Honda is used) only speaks volumes of the unity that this forum has.

So, Rev up your anti against the dealer turbo charge your attitude and throttle at full speed

Cheers!
M2S

Last edited by married2speed : 10th July 2008 at 01:45.
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Old 10th July 2008, 08:19   #66
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i can fee l your

i had bought a NHC in 2004 and in 20007 i had a accident in it
i sent the car to my usual body shop and to my shock the painter (hes going this for more than 50 years) told me that the whole side of my car is painted i felt so bad and cheated but couldn't go anything as the car was 3 years old

but don't let them go easily would be glad to help you out
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Old 10th July 2008, 11:03   #67
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the main problem is once the car is registered and has a licence plate you are kind of stuck to it then. cant change it easily. i dont know how these idiots work but never let them register your car. let your car come to the dealership inspect it and then let them go ahead with the registration. what are the things one should see while taking a brand new car please send out pointers. what if you are buying a black or purple car then how to find color difference
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Old 10th July 2008, 11:24   #68
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It is not uncommon at either at the plant, in the manufacturer's yard, in transit, or at the dealership cars which sustain minor damage are repainted and sold. It is an industry wide practice and quite common. Most of you may not know but often around the world manufacturers repairs thousand of cars damaged during hailstorms and sell them as new.

A manufacturer offers a warranty with reason. They are willing to stand by their product and as long as the car is not compromised I wouldn't waste my time fretting and fuming and getting all worked up about this issue. If the defect is very obvious, request it be redone. Colours can be rematched and you won't be able to tell the job redone when done professionally.

My honest advise is to not lose your peace of mind over this issue and waste your time and resources trying to fight things out. Make a request and if the manufacturer/dealer respond favourably with a fix let them do it and move on.

Look at it this way. For all the effort you will put in to fight it out and get what you want, chances are an auto will scrape your car the next minute you drive out.

Its a small scratch redone, not a drastic let down. And I don't believe it tantamounts to the mfg or dealer wantonly cheating you. This is an industry wide practice. Be realistic. I am certain they will redo the job to your satisfaction should you seek such a resolution to your problem.
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Old 10th July 2008, 11:30   #69
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Sorry to hear about the experience you had with Honda. Mathew i just want to say that no matter what fight with the dealer, the company and show them that we cannot be taken for a ride... We are with you buddy!!
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Old 10th July 2008, 11:34   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmathew View Post
Trusting what dealer says, they took the vehicle for washing and polished it and removed evidences!
Sorry to hear about your dillema.

But on a side note, if you have painting defects after respray such as patches and blotches, they cannot go away after washing and polishing.

Not unless the car was properly buffed by them which would have taken atleast 1-2 hours to do bumpers, door and hood. But even then the chances are 50-50 that all telltale signs would go away.
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Old 10th July 2008, 12:13   #71
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Originally Posted by DKG View Post

Look at it this way. For all the effort you will put in to fight it out and get what you want, chances are an auto will scrape your car the next minute you drive out.
It is a lot more than a minor scrape. Please read Post #56.

JMathew,

really sorry to hear about this. Please keep persisting with efforts to get a replacement. I hope you get a resolution to this problem soon.
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Old 10th July 2008, 19:30   #72
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@DKG, its your opinion and I respect it. But I do feel different in these matters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DKG View Post


A manufacturer offers a warranty with reason. They are willing to stand by their product and as long as the car is not compromised I wouldn't waste my time fretting and fuming and getting all worked up about this issue.
Generally in India, the manufacturers try to cover up the things in the " Normal Wear and Tear " section. This is a true case with my dad's colleuge.
They bought Santro Xing and after the delivery (delivery was given in the evening ), the next morning they could see that the color was slightly different on rear hatch. They ignored this, but after a week or so, the A/C would not cool. They took to the dealer , but the dealer promptly said " We cant cover it under warranty, the condenser will have to be replaced, and this comes under Normal Wear And Tear ".



Quote:
Originally Posted by DKG View Post

If the defect is very obvious, request it be redone. Colours can be rematched and you won't be able to tell the job redone when done professionally.

Agreed that in transit, the car can get damaged, but then

1)
The dealer must admit and inform the customer about this before he/she takes delivery of the specific vehicle. Generally they dont.

2)
Is the quality of paint as good as Factory paint ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DKG View Post

My honest advise is to not lose your peace of mind over this issue and waste your time and resources trying to fight things out. Make a request and if the manufacturer/dealer respond favourably with a fix let them do it and move on.

Look at it this way. For all the effort you will put in to fight it out and get what you want, chances are an auto will scrape your car the next minute you drive out.

Its a small scratch redone, not a drastic let down. And I don't believe it tantamounts to the mfg or dealer wantonly cheating you. This is an industry wide practice. Be realistic. I am certain they will redo the job to your satisfaction should you seek such a resolution to your problem.

Its not matter of the car getting scratched the next minute, its matter of getting dissatisfaction and a feeling of cheated from the dealer. It is matter of attitude of the dealer towards the customers who have paid hard earned money.
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Old 10th July 2008, 21:58   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
Generally in India, the manufacturers try to cover up the things in the " Normal Wear and Tear " section
As our Indian car industry is maturing slowing you will increasingly see a focus on customer satisfaction as the key determinant of market share.

As a consumer rest assured you are and will remain King! Any manufacturer taking your business for granted wantonly is digging their grave. See how Fiat and Mitsubishi goofed up. Now they are trying to turn a new leaf and start again. That's more expensive.

All manufacturers and dealers must eventually ensure a positive customer response and so I really don't believe a company like Honda or hyundai will take a complaint lightly. Do write to them and they usually respond. That said as customers we too must be open to accepting a reasonable solution. I do believe no company is out there to rip you off. With such an outlook I doubt they will last out.

If a dealer follows the recommended material use and procedure the final finish can match the factory finish. This I can say only cause the factory finish of Indian built cars is still no where close to what they achieve in Japan or Germany. There's far too much orange peel on cars sold in India. I noticed even the BMW's and Mercs too have less than perfect finish from the factory here in India

As regards telling a customer a car was repainted you honestly believe any customer would accept it? I have thought a lot about this looking at it from both sides. It is not a breach of faith if minor scratches are repainted and cars are sold without customers being told. Manufacturers around the world do this. It is if structural damage is rectified and passed off to an unsuspecting customer. I would like to believe no manufacturer would ever do that.

Last edited by DKG : 10th July 2008 at 22:12.
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Old 10th July 2008, 22:21   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DKG View Post
Most of you may not know but often around the world manufacturers repairs thousand of cars damaged during hailstorms and sell them as new. .
That is a new thing for me. DKG, Can you clear this point? Where hailstrom hit cars sold as new? I have seen such cars ( Hail storm hit / recovered from flood) with huge discounts and ofcourse they coming with a note that they are factory reburished peaces with components replaced and serviced by professionals. These vehicles will have limited warrenty too. i have never seen repaired cars sold as new anywhere in a developed nation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DKG View Post
Look at it this way. For all the effort you will put in to fight it out and get what you want, chances are an auto will scrape your car the next minute you drive out.

Its a small scratch redone, not a drastic let down. And I don't believe it tantamounts to the mfg or dealer wantonly cheating you. This is an industry wide practice. Be realistic. I am certain they will redo the job to your satisfaction should you seek such a resolution to your problem.
According to me its not a matter of small scratch/ big one. Its all about someone cheating you purposefully. If it is an industry wide practice it is just because the public is not aware of their rights.This malpractices should be be fought back by consumers and let the dealers know they are responsible in delivering a brand new vehicle for the money they collect and not a repaired one. If cars can be imported from Japan and South korea to US without a single scratch, it can be done very easily here too. The dealers should take care of their shipping procedure and evenif somehting happend to the cars they should not cover it up and pass it on to the user.

There is one more factor why in India all dealers doing this: As soon as a car is billed in the factory to a dealer, it is the Dealers property. He has to take care of any trasit issues, including scratches / road accedents to the carriers. They have to claim the money from the transit insurance company and repair it. There is no option of sending back to the company. But then its a business risk every dealer should take by themself and they have to show the damages to the consumer before selling it off. That is the general practice in all matured market. Correct me if I am wrong.

Last edited by HotChillyPepper : 10th July 2008 at 22:23.
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Old 10th July 2008, 22:44   #75
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Italians have perfected the art of removing small dents without the need to repaint. Infact when I lived abroad I actually saw them work on cars. Its quite amazing how they work out the dent to disappear and no painting is required. I am only referring to minor dents. Obviously flood damaged cars repaired etc will attract discounts as you rightly point out and come with limited warranties.

During quality checks along the manufacturer line small dents/scratches etc are handled by the car being sent back into the paintshop for a redo. Such redo's don't come with any letters informing the customer that the particular car was redone.

As regards your view that dealers are protecting their interests by doing this, well you are right there but what's the option? if a dealer tells a customer the particular car had a small scratch repaired you seriously believe anyone would buy the car? I do realise this is a disturbing fact of what's happening accross dealerships but what's your solution? I noticed small such defects on cars I bought new but its okay with me as long as I realised it was a scratch rectified.

I do agree with the view that a major damage should not be passed off. Its sad if that happens.
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