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Old 10th July 2008, 22:57   #76
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This is really serious. We have been seeing increasing number of cases on the forum. One of the main reasons is the buyers are unaware of these malpractices or are too new. Dealers take advantage of this.

I have been circulating our tbhp predelivery inspection guides to all known people. Popular Maruti dealer Chennai staff wanted to know who is misleading buyers by giving the guide. They got zapped when they saw the same detailed guide with 4 buyers in a short span of time all refusing to take delivery in the evening.

These recent threads have been getting very high ranking on google. Sadly how many buyers google their dealers before buying? Lets do what we can to spread the word.
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Old 10th July 2008, 23:03   #77
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According to me its not a matter of small scratch/ big one. Its all about someone cheating you purposefully. If it is an industry wide practice it is just because the public is not aware of their rights.This malpractices should be be fought back by consumers and let the dealers know they are responsible in delivering a brand new vehicle for the money they collect and not a repaired one. If cars can be imported from Japan and South korea to US without a single scratch, it can be done very easily here too. The dealers should take care of their shipping procedure and evenif somehting happend to the cars they should not cover it up and pass it on to the user.
with the thought. Would add more if required.

@DKG - Bro' - what you are saying, does make sense considering that we all know how "the system" really works and at the end of the day, there's not much one would gain at the end of it all, but if we stop fighting against injustice/malpractices etc. etc. then

I read somewhere, Your own conscience should be the law and the sooner people start realising this, bhpians like JM wont' suffer from the hands of unscruplous dealers. At times, one has to go with the emotions than weighing the pro's and cons.

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There is one more factor why in India all dealers doing this: As soon as a car is billed in the factory to a dealer, it is the Dealers property. He has to take care of any trasit issues, including scratches / road accedents to the carriers. They have to claim the money from the transit insurance company and repair it. There is no option of sending back to the company. But then its a business risk every dealer should take by themself and they have to show the damages to the consumer before selling it off. That is the general practice in all matured market. Correct me if I am wrong.
Just would like to know your source of information there bro'. From what I heard is that, transit is the companies responsibility. After the cars get unloaded, the dealer gets to go over the cars cosmetics and if and only if he approves, the car is his for taking. Any scratches/dents, the dealer has the option of sending the car back something, which costs the company an arm and a leg. So instead, some chose to keep the car but then get a huge discount from the company as well, like a waiver to sell that car besides the commission. However, I could be wrong too. Your thought please.

Thanks
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Old 10th July 2008, 23:03   #78
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As regards your view that dealers are protecting their interests by doing this, well you are right there but what's the option? if a dealer tells a customer the particular car had a small scratch repaired you seriously believe anyone would buy the car? I do realise this is a disturbing fact of what's happening accross dealerships but what's your solution? I noticed small such defects on cars I bought new but its okay with me as long as I realised it was a scratch rectified.

I do agree with the view that a major damage should not be passed off. Its sad if that happens.
Dear friend,

The dealer has lied about the damage to the customer who has paid top dollar for a supposedly premium product.
The customer has written to the manufacturer, and there has been no reply.
You want him to forget it, since theres no major damage, and the manufacturer is willing to provide a warranty?
Are you serious? Are you for real?

Mr.Thomas, I think you should just let the law take its own course. Let Honda reply to these charges in court and let them face the music. They've taken the Indian consumer for granted for far too long. I for one will boycott all Honda cars. Such an attitude is just not done. Not acceptable at all.
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Old 10th July 2008, 23:13   #79
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Originally Posted by Lalvaz View Post
I think you should just let the law take its own course.
You trust the judiciary to solve these matters expeditiously???

I know of a case where a consumer went to court against a manufacturer cause his car's engine seized after he hit the oil sump. He claims the red light didn't come on so he kept driving. Blames the manufacturer for a design fault. I think its now well over 15 years the case is still not resolved!

I can accept a dealer being callous, but to jump to a conclusion that Honda in India does not care, that is far fetched in my opinion. They do value customer satisfaction.

Last edited by DKG : 10th July 2008 at 23:16.
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Old 10th July 2008, 23:24   #80
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Originally Posted by DKG View Post
I can accept a dealer being callous, but to jump to a conclusion that Honda in India does not care, that is far fetched in my opinion. They do value customer satisfaction.
Yeah right, which is why they dont bother responding to the customers emails. Read the thread again man.

And it does'nt matter how long the law takes. Are you advising people to shut up and tolerate nonsense cos the law takes its own sweet time? Wow, cant even begin to figure out your attitude man.
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Old 10th July 2008, 23:33   #81
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You trust the judiciary to solve these matters expeditiously
Are we really goin to get into this debate? Mods is it allowed in here?

Just so that you know, the lawyers are also a part of the judiciary. It's their bread and butter as well, so you really expect them to wrap up things in a matter of weeks. The problems is not about the judiciary or the system, the problem lies with us as well. The problem of being not so well informed and not even trying. Why so? Only because someone decided to rather "let go of things" than fight.

I guess this site was started for this very information, to pass on information. And hey, matters are decided expeditiously as well in judiciary, although not entirely to one's satisfaction but that's a subjective opinion. If we know how to get them done, it's certainly possible. The system certainly has evolved, even it's at a snails pace, over the last 15 years, so one shouldn't presume that the system works the same way, it worked 15 years ago.

Cheers!
M2S

PS: JM - has the dealer replied to the legal notice you sent?
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Old 11th July 2008, 00:13   #82
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I see a lot of arguements going on. Good to know both sides anyway. If it was a minor scrach I would definitly ignore it. The car has a minor unpainted scrach, I simply ignored it, not even reported it to anyone. The car has been repainted in 4 places. What if I accept what dealer is proposing, replacing/repainting door and bonnet. What is the assurance that it will be done perfectly? Will I have a right to complain after that? If I am going to sell this car after a few years, who will pay me the depreciation. The dealer still saying that it is caused by bird droppings. Can bird droppings cause dents?

I have a call from dealer today and told me that someone from honda is there and I can bring the car for inspecton if I want! I went there reluctently. I showed him the repainted parts. He was not ready accept the defects in bonnet and the front bumper even if it is clearly visible. At last he said what they can do is to replace the door and bumper and for the rest of the issues, they will repaint it. He told me that this could be the final if I go to a consumer court also. After a lot of arguements I gave it up. I dont really understand what is happening here. Is dealer trying to cover up honda or honda is trying to cover up the dealer?
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Old 11th July 2008, 00:46   #83
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I see a lot of arguements going on. Good to know both sides anyway. If it was a minor scrach I would definitly ignore it. The car has a minor unpainted scrach, I simply ignored it, not even reported it to anyone. The car has been repainted in 4 places. What if I accept what dealer is proposing, replacing/repainting door and bonnet. What is the assurance that it will be done perfectly? Will I have a right to complain after that? If I am going to sell this car after a few years, who will pay me the depreciation. The dealer still saying that it is caused by bird droppings. Can bird droppings cause dents?
Hmmm. This is a very interesting situation. My opinion on this is that if you accept the re-paint done by the dealer, well then Would the dealer have given you the car for half the price, if you'd say that you lost half the money on the way enroute. ( Getting stolen in transit) or would he have given you the car if all your money was fake( money got damaged in transit). So if the answer to these questions is yes then you should get the parts replaced but if it's a negative, then why should you get the replacement? If the executive or the dealer thinks that the car is not damaged, tell them to return you your money, and keep the car. Don't you believe that you have the right to get a "right" car. If they are so keen on replacing the doors and the bonnet, why not the whole car?

As for the bird droppings, tell him the next things that would land on his jaw would be a lot more than bird droppings. Let's see if that leaves a dent. Bird droppings

That's why I am insist that you take pictures. If the damage is really caused by bird droppings and they can prove that in court, even then you can get the the court to say that the parts should be replaced. In that case, you still don't have anything to loose but should you just surrender mekely, boy o boy!
I can understand that this must be really really depressing for you, but since when did things come easy in this country. Fight for it bro'.



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I have a call from dealer today and told me that someone from honda is there and I can bring the car for inspecton if I want! I went there reluctently. I showed him the repainted parts. He was not ready accept the defects in bonnet and the front bumper even if it is clearly visible. At last he said what they can do is to replace the door and bumper and for the rest of the issues, they will repaint it. He told me that this could be the final if I go to a consumer court also. After a lot of arguements I gave it up. I dont really understand what is happening here. Is dealer trying to cover up honda or honda is trying to cover up the dealer
Forget who's trying to cover whom up. Whatever the dealer or the executive from Honda is saying, ask them to give it to you in writing. Make sure you have name's, phone numbers, their bosses name's and phone numbers. Speak with the executives boss, tell him the story, document everything. From now on take nothing on a verbal front. If they say that they are changing any part, there should be some evidence with you in writing. Once you get that, refuse to get the car repainted and tell them that you want the car to be replaced and if required you WILL NOT HESITATE proceeding against the company and the dealer in the court. Make this as firm as possible without getting loud or angry.
Get yourself a good lawyer. Legal fees are re-imbursed by the court at the end of the trial, provided you win, which in your case, is very much likely to happen.
The way I perceive it, your reluctance to go to the dealer and blah blah blah, only goes to show that you are on the verge of giving up. This is precisely what the dealer wants. Pace yourself on a weekly basis. At the end of the week, review the situation. If the results are favorable, then give it another week, if not escalate the matter as maybe required. Just remember that things will not happen overnight but when they do happen your way, the feeling will be overwhelming.
I know it's not easy but what is? Was buying the car any easy? Remember all nights working hard only to get your hands on the machine? So if you've earned it, you deserve it.

A word of advice : do remember that the way the judiciary functions is that the one who has levied the charge, is the one who has to prove the charge. So the onus would be onto you to prove it to the court that the car was damaged before you took the delivery and the dealer cheated you.

Good luck and do let us know what's happened on the legal notices you've sent and stuff.
Cheers!
M2S

Last edited by married2speed : 11th July 2008 at 00:48.
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Old 11th July 2008, 00:47   #84
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Originally Posted by jmathew View Post
I see a lot of arguements going on. Good to know both sides anyway. If it was a minor scrach I would definitly ignore it. The car has a minor unpainted scrach, I simply ignored it, not even reported it to anyone. The car has been repainted in 4 places. What if I accept what dealer is proposing, replacing/repainting door and bonnet. What is the assurance that it will be done perfectly? Will I have a right to complain after that? If I am going to sell this car after a few years, who will pay me the depreciation. The dealer still saying that it is caused by bird droppings. Can bird droppings cause dents?

I have a call from dealer today and told me that someone from honda is there and I can bring the car for inspecton if I want! I went there reluctently. I showed him the repainted parts. He was not ready accept the defects in bonnet and the front bumper even if it is clearly visible. At last he said what they can do is to replace the door and bumper and for the rest of the issues, they will repaint it. He told me that this could be the final if I go to a consumer court also. After a lot of arguements I gave it up. I dont really understand what is happening here. Is dealer trying to cover up honda or honda is trying to cover up the dealer?
My sympathies are with you Mr.Mathew. But I strongly advise you to take legal action against Honda. They are trying to make you feel that its futile to pursue the case further, so that they can wriggle out of their responsibility. As a customer, it is your RIGHT to expect a brand new undamaged car. Please do not feel defeated. You have the evidence of damage. Please pursue this case to the logical conclusion. You will get justice for sure. The consumer courts are realizing that consumers are justified in expecting quality goods, and this is translating into favourable judgements. Please consult a good lawyer to ensure that the car is replaced. Nothing else is acceptable.
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Old 11th July 2008, 01:02   #85
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When I went to take the delivery of my CR-V is was 7 in the evening.

I really wanted to take the car but I took all precautions possible at the time.

I had the car parked in a well lit area and insisted on inspected the car in every way before signing any documents.

Funnily, the car is in the name of my dads company and hence I had taken the rubber stamp + documents to prove ownership.

None of this was required by the dealer and they handed the car over via my simple short signature....

Icing on the cake, I have no stake/ownership in the company. Technically, they handed the car over to a complete stranger. Good faith... I guess.

Last edited by AbhiJ : 11th July 2008 at 01:08.
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Old 11th July 2008, 01:45   #86
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JM, get on the phone, call up the Honda facilities and ask to speak to Masahiro Takedagawa, CEO. Give details to his PA and ask for an appointment - even if he based in far off Noida.

This should get senior executives contacting you. Once they are aware of this incident, they will provide a more satisfying solution.

Also keep in mind that Honda has doubled their capacity to 100,000 units in 2008. They have sold only 32000 units from Jan to June 2008. They cannot afford any negative publicity when they need to boost sales.

If possible ask your media friends to speak to the Honda Media Center persons. I feel that the threat of media is more serious than a legal threat. They have a bunch of lawyers handling this on a daily basis.

If and when you take the legal option, you will have to monitor what your lawyer is doing since most of the times they do a bad job. The dealership could also get off on some legal technicality which would add insult to injury.

Please pursue the media/non-legal route to the maximum and try to reach some settlement.

And Thank God that the engine is fine. Your troubles would have known no end if they had given you a defective engine.

Peace.
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Old 11th July 2008, 01:58   #87
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I didnt mean that I gave up the case. I decided to pursue the case strongly. There was no point in arguing with them anymore. I knew that this inspection is just a drama and the honda representative was not interested to inspect the car also. According to the dealer the inspection is because I asked for it. It is very disappointing that honda does not care to check what the customer is complaining.
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Old 11th July 2008, 02:23   #88
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Its seems like its a bad paint job of the door..or a touch up like GTO pointed out.. the thing with metallic paint is that it has crystals in it. and if some one tries to do a small touch up or paints it too close to the part then the metallic crystals spool up in one area and then fades on the outer edge.. after that happens its quite difficult to get a uniform spray around it. A light spray must have covered up the major imperfections but it will be visible in day light.

I would take it to another dealer and let the paint dept. check it out and get it in writing that its been touched up or what ever..

That should put some pressure on your dealer..

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Originally Posted by jmathew View Post
Greetings to all! I am a newby here. I got my CIVIC (Carbon Bronze) last week. I have a few doubts to ask. I booked the Car in June and the car delivered to me is manufactured in Feb 08. Is this normal?

I have an another issue about the paint. On the driver side door, there is a slight change in color. The color has a slight faiding, which is in a circe around 10cm diameter. It can be hardly noticed. But it is obvious when it reflects sun. I asked the service executive and he told that it is normal that there can be slight change in color in some places. Is thir normal? Has somebody else has the similar experience?
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Old 11th July 2008, 11:46   #89
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DKG, whatever you have mentioned in the post is fine if the scratches are small. But if you find the bumper, boot and the doors being redone, then there is a big accident and not a small nick here and there. Hence the concern and the step to go the legal way. Is it sure that the engine is still untouched.
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Old 11th July 2008, 13:59   #90
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From the list of parts which are repainted, it might be possible that the car has met with an accident and it is repaired and sold to you. Don't simply accept it as a repainted car.

You should treat it as an accident-repaired car and file a case in consumer court saying that.

Don't believe what people say, consumer courts are not that bad. We ourselves fought a case against Electrolux for a defective washing machine and got full cash refund. The case went on and on for about a year but in the end we got what we asked for.

It's a big cost for the dealer so don;t expect it to close easily with the dealer. Unfortunately Honda would care a least as it is not a mfg issue.

Create as much as bad publicity you can create for Peninsular Honda.
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