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Old 29th March 2010, 13:49   #61
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Default Very True

Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
This question can only be answered by real people having real professional knowledge and professional competence in this vast and as yet untapped area. As I can see today, this is a rare quality.
From whatever little I have seen in the past 2 decades of my automobile passion and not much of it in cities full of ASCs, I believe that it is such people, who still exist in the gullies of lathe, electrical and paint shops are the ones who command respect from one and all. Take the example of Royal Enfield for example. RE owners literally "hunt" for good, sensitive and experienced technicians and mechanics once they come to know that the ASC always take them for a ride.
Wish I could become one of them though.
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Old 29th March 2010, 15:32   #62
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1) Poor Knowledge and training. The dealership personnel knows much lesser than an average customer. They forget that a prospective buyer should have had his/her research done before contacting a dealership. Vehicle specific training, general knowledge about motor vehicles will help. Most insurance salesmen end up selling cars at dealerships when all they know about is insurance.

2) Too much business. Most dealers today handle more vehicles than they can. Due to the shortage of facilities/man power dealers are not able to allocate proper time and resources to individual vehicles. People are just too stressed at dealerships. More dealerships can solve this problem.

3) Irresponsible. Most dealership personnel are irresponsible. they are just happy to hand over customer complaints to someone else than attending themselves.
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Old 30th March 2010, 11:46   #63
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I don't know if this has already been mentioned before, but the biggest reason we have a bad experience at the dealership is we ourselves are so ignorant about automobiles.
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Old 30th March 2010, 13:17   #64
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After recently making the transition from an employee to am employer, I've resigned myself to the belief that competent people are a myth, or at least rarer than i once thought. And even if you do find them, they probably want something better than what you have in mind for them. You can;t blame them. I would feel the same way too. And the best one can do is find ways to setup processes that ensure any idiot ( and hopefully, some day a machine) can do the job satisfactorily.

And from what I have heard, after you are done coughing up the money you need to pay for The dealership and *** ( to the parent company, for infrastructure etc) there is often not much money left to pay for labour, and for those who run them, the focus is on meeting the bottom line in everything - profitablity, quality of service etc.

After all, its the reverse of the pareto principle. if 20% effort gets you 80% of the work done, most are not simply interested in doing the rest 80% effort to complete the rest 20% of the work.

Ideally what you've mentioned is the goal that everyone wants, but right now, it is probably so far out of sight that most of us are willing to settle for something achievable and realistic. heck, the fact that someone out there is being forced to track my issues to closure is good enough for me ( that someone would do it out of goodwill and commitment to his work is just wishful thinking at the moment)

Last edited by greenhorn : 30th March 2010 at 13:28.
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Old 30th March 2010, 23:46   #65
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Originally Posted by phamilyman View Post
because we indians aren't process driven, but individual driven.

Except Hyundai, where quite dumb individuals seem to be following amazingly good processes - atleast in CRM.
I did find a lady helpdesk executive who took her job seriously and is quite competent. As I spent almost a day at the Sharayu Hyundai while my car was going through the free checkup, I saw the lady at the counter handle the incoming enquiries. What set her apart was just towards lunch time, the ASM called her in his cabin to discuss something. As she got up from her seat, a customer approached the desk and asked for some work to be done on his car. She had already walked a couple of paces by the time the customer opened his mouth. She halted, took a look at the service advisors working at a long desk, and directed that customer to one that was free, before she went to meet her boss. I really appreciated that.
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Old 31st March 2010, 14:32   #66
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The root cause of bad service from the dealers is that the service advisor is not afraid of his manager and the dealer is not afraid of the car company taking any action against them if the customer is not satisfied with the service offered.

This happens due to lack of proper feedback mechanism between the customer and the car manufacturer.

Companies like Maruti and Hyundai are serious about customer feedback. They have a proper feedback mechanism in place. If a customer gives a bad feedback or writes a complaint, the service advisor would literally come begging for mercy from the customer.

Some other car companies don't even bother replying to customer feedback. In such companies, the dealers and service advisors develop a don't care attitude towards the customers. Surprisingly, customers still buy products from such companies and gladly accept bad A.S.S. as a part of the deal.

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Old 7th August 2013, 14:40   #67
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Default Re: Root Cause Analysis - Why Customers Have Bad Service Experiences With Indian Deal

I would like to add a few points here to understand root cause of bad service experiences. I always get my car serviced at A.S.S (except for my jeep; I trust my local mechanic more for the jeep). More often than not, the service experience leaves me in an unsatisfactory state because :-

a. Lack of knowledge
b. Taking customer for granted
c. Not giving customer proper time
d. Rip off on a few value added items like wheel balancing alignment / underbody coating etc

Most (if not all) of the service center guys who prepare the job card are in a hurry. They rarely bother to listen to the customer. All they do is note down the odometer reading, look for scratches / dents etc while preparing the job card and start pitching underbody coating, teflon, engine bay coating etc etc. I was told by a service guy that getting Engine bay coating is a mandate at 30k kms . All I did was pulled of the owners manual and told him to show me where it was written. I could save myself because I am an autobuff. What about other customers ?

I like to get the pollen filter of A/C cleaned during servicing. Due to construction work happening near my area, the pollen filter gets chocked with dust in no time. Many a times, this point doesn't appear in the job card due to service center guy's negligence. He pretends as if he is listening to the customer while examining the car, checking lights etc. Why can't they check the car first and then spend 5 minutes with the customer to listen what he wants ?

When I point out that he has missed writing this point, he writes it on his copy and tells me that it will be done; finally the work doesn't happen. Whom should I blame for this ?

Thirdly, I was quoted Rs. 120 for windscreen washer fluid. What on earth are the service center guys using in the fluid ?? some detergent from Mars ?? sunsilk does an equally good job if not better.

I always avoid getting jobs like wheel balancing, under body coating, polishing etc from A.S.S. This is because :-

a. 9 out of 10 times, their wheel balancing / alignment isn't done properly. I prefer taking it to a known tyre shop and get it done there every 5k kms.

b. The A.S.S rips you off for services like under body coating etc. The same facility is available at a cheaper rate in places like 3M car care etc.

Whenever I face such issues, I escalate it to the Team leaders / managers at the service station. Most of the times, the issue gets resolved leaving the service executive in a bad taste and leaving me worried that he might do something to the car because I didn't agree to get the things done he wanted me to.

Being related to the Auto Industry, I sometimes manage to settle down things but the fear persists. Every time I take my car for service, I feel as if I am leaving for a war. I arm myself with the owners manual, my business card and phone number of an acquaintance / friend who works for that OEM

Last edited by Sabareesh : 7th August 2013 at 14:50.
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Old 7th August 2013, 15:04   #68
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Default Re: Root Cause Analysis - Why Customers Have Bad Service Experiences With Indian Deal

The single biggest reason for lack of quality customer service these days, is nobody aims for 'good' anymore, everyone targets 'good enough'. And I don't mean good enough w.r.t. customer, I mean good enough for standards set by the organisation, which are abysmally low sometimes.

I've personally seen an organisation's customer service target benchmark "80% incidents to meet 80% SLA 80% of the time", and that's just for response, not resolution. I wouldn't want to name them, but I wouldn't be surprised if some others have even lower standards.

And this isn't just about the automotive sector, it's everywhere. The approach is more 'I'll do only what my rule-book says' rather than 'I'll do everything to help the customer'.

Cost, not customer is the driving factor of most businesses today. Nobody takes pride in their work or tries to provide above-average service (unless cost is no object and bad service is UNACCEPTABLE to the customer). Good service is an exception (limited to brands that can't afford NOT to provide it), and will stay so.

This is my service check-list that I posted in another thread, seems relevant here. Doesn't always ensure a happy experience, but at least I don't have to walk out feeling cheated and/or dreading something may be wrong with my car.

1. Always take a service appointment. That way, you can always demand to be attended properly. Walk-in customers are usually rushed through. I'd recommend taking a day off to get your car serviced personally. Your car deserves the attention. Not to mention, you'd be horrified to see how most pick-up/drop mechanics drive customer cars.

2. Always make a note of all known issues before-hand. This ensures nothing is forgotten at the A.S.S. If there are demonstrable issues (like rattling sounds or other noises, for example), insist on a pre-service test drive with the SA. Especially important these days as all service centers are over-crowded, and the SA is usually in a hurry to file your job card and move on to the next guy.

3. Refuse to be rushed through the pre-service inspection. I either write down notes myself, or ensure the SA writes them down in clear, legible handwriting. Verify and sign.

4. If you have specific demands (like I don't want any additives in my car's fluids), ensure it's noted on the job card.

5. Get your assigned mechanic to do a preliminary inspection (most usually do) and tell you what parts need replacement. Verify if those parts really need replacement, or are even the culprit for the problem identified. Knowing your car's basics helps in such cases. If in doubt, ask someone knowledgeable or even better, Google it. You'll be amazed at the kind of info available with simple online searches.

6. Hang around the car, talk to the mechanic. Don't interfere with the work or become troublesome. Show genuine interest in what's being done to your car and most mechanics are eager to impress you with their knowledge/workmanship. If you notice something amiss, do not hesitate to notify the SA immediately. Much better than taking a 'wait and watch' approach and end up with issues or damage later.

7. For all fluid changes (Engine oil, transmission oil, coolant, brake fluid, power steering fluid etc.), ensure correct grade & volume are being provided for your car. If in doubt, refer your user manual or look-up online.

8. Ensure the engine bay isn't pressure washed. It's very easy to mess up sensors in modern cars with water/moisture. Plastic/fiber head/tail lamp clusters can easily develop hairline cracks if hit directly with pressurized water jets. Pressurized air is the way to go.

9. Take a relaxed test drive (as long as required) with the job card in the car. Mentally check-off all issues you'd reported earlier. If something's not fixed, point it out to the SA.

10. DO NOT sign the 'satisfied with service and vehicle delivered' section on the job card unless you're actually satisfied with the job done. Most A.S.S. ask customers to sign even before they're allowed a pre-delivery test drive. Don't fall for it. I usually get them to put the car on the lift for a pre-delivery underbody inspection. I've caught an improperly tightened oil drain-plug more than once (in different A.S.S.). You can never be too careful.

11. Before payment, insist on verifying the itemized bill statement. I've caught many an unwanted items billed to me, and it's easier to get the bill corrected before payment. Most A.S.S. are VERY reluctant to refund money post-billing, even if they accept their fault.

12. Make a note of the SA/mechanic who attended your car. Always helps if there are repeat complaints, or if you need to escalate. (During my last service, the air-intake resonator on my car was left loosely attached and later fell loose in the engine bay, which could've caused a major accident if it had slipped down and got stuck to the LHS steering rod assembly. The A.S.S. was reluctant to admit fault, but I gave full details (including my complaint# to Hyundai and the dealership MD) and they backed off and admitted their fault, and fired the mechanic. I got a personal apology from the Service GM too).

Hope this helps. Paying attention and asking questions (rather than trusting the A.S.S. blindly) is the key to a satisfactory service experience.

Last edited by Chetan_Rao : 7th August 2013 at 15:21.
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Old 19th August 2013, 00:16   #69
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I think part of the issue lies with us as well. How many times do we take the pain of carrying the service booklet with us. I have had multiple cases where the SA has tried to sell me so called services which did not find a mention in the service book. Once he told me that the service book had been updated, asked him to show me the new service book and a memo from the company which says that this new schedule needs to be followed. One more incident where the SA tried to pass off the additional services as value added services. In short stick to what the manufacturer mentions.
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Old 19th August 2013, 01:11   #70
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Default Re: Root Cause Analysis - Why Customers Have Bad Service Experiences With Indian Deal

This is going to be easy.
Because the Legal System in India sucks big time.
Dealers know they can get away with anything they want. And hence the Customer is nothing in their eyes.
Give teeth/implementation to law and this question will become irrelevant.

The customer service we see in countries like USA is not because they "Love" customer. It is because they can get "Sued" out of existence.
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Old 19th August 2013, 07:44   #71
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Default Re: Root Cause Analysis - Why Customers Have Bad Service Experiences With Indian Deal

Originally Posted by greenhorn View Post
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...reat-idea.html (Ticket based Customer support: Who else thinks its a great idea?)
This is a solution which .. that it mostly works, or at least gives quantitative feedback on Service quality. Your opinion on it would be appreciated.
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
The ticket system is a good step in the correct direction but it is finally a "yes / no" system. This system will close the complaint when it is "resolved", till that time it will ensure that somebody follows up, that's all!
@Greenie, if you have used this system long enough, you will also see how people work with it - even with all the SLA's we have in the IT / ITES environment. With the pressure that managements put on closing tickets, people also try to close tickets quickly. And I use the word "close" and have not mentioned the words "resolve" or "solution".

BD sir, my experience in the last decade has been mainly with TML. (I did have a Ford, but have not have to interact with them beyond scheduled servicing). I think TML has a similar system where issues are forwarded to certain executives to ensure resolution. But unfortunately, (some of) these people just want to close the issue, without even looking at the problem in sufficient depth. It looks like the people just want to show their bosses & the company that they have attended to the problem quickly. With this kind of an approach, how can we expect resolution of a problem ?
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Old 19th August 2013, 17:48   #72
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Default Re: Root Cause Analysis - Why Customers Have Bad Service Experiences With Indian Deal

A very good thread and one that is very relevant to the situations faced by customers almost daily. Thank you for introducing such a topic.

The following incident will put forward my point.
I was in an idea service center to pay my bill. Just then the center chief received a call from an irate customer stating that one of his Customer service representatives had forgotten to update his account and this had happened thrice in a row.

The center head put the phone some distance away and faked a yelling incident and assured the customer that the csr had been properly admonished. He had a hearty laugh right in front of me and other customers.

The point that I want to put forward is that why are we reluctant to put blame where its due ? Why do service heads want to protect their own people at the cost of losing a customer's confidence ? This is also a contributing factor IMHO to customers having bad experiences at service centers.

My 2 cents !
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Old 23rd August 2013, 19:30   #73
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Default Re: Root Cause Analysis - Why Customers Have Bad Service Experiences With Indian Deal

Originally Posted by condor View Post
........It looks like the people just want to show their bosses & the company that they have attended to the problem quickly. .........
You nailed it. All customer service processes these days are 'response-centric', rather than 'resolution-centric'.

They'll keep bombarding you with the same scripted responses over & over again, just to play the system. I've personally experienced one such system where the customer service personnel were instructed to send a 'response' to the customer everyday to ensure tickets were always in 'pending customer response' instead of 'pending resolution' status, as their SLAs were built around that.
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Old 3rd September 2013, 15:48   #74
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Default My woes with DSK Toyota Pune continue to haunt me...

Below is my story of bad experiences with the most reputed Toyota dealer in Pune.

After having a bad service experience from DSK Toyota Pune, I started sending my car to Sharayu Toyota for a couple of services. However, I got my car back from Sharayu with a damaged headlamp (scratches on the glass cover) and a stolen spanner, which I discovered only after a couple of months when a tire got punctured. So last week I reverted back to DSK for a 90K service.

Now, I must say that their Customer front-ending is the best. Rest-of-India can surely learn from them. The Service Advisers are very polite, patient, friendly and also help you by going out of their way. E.g. when I told them about the lost spanner, they gave one to me free of cost!

The servicing part was alright but there are some points which are totally unacceptable. This time around, I couldn't go to collect my car from their service station so they delivered it. I checked the car as soon as I reached home and to my shocking surprise I found following things.

Root Cause Analysis - Why Customers Have Bad Service Experiences With Indian Dealers-dsklogo.jpg

First, they stuck their DSKToyota on my car without my permission or knowledge. This thing is found on lot of Innovas and Corollas in Pune. I donít know about others but I absolutely hate to see this on my car! Why should I make my car look ugly and provide a free marketing service for DSK?

Second, the cleaned car had grease on the air-vent. I wonder why would anyone take grease near the air vents?

Root Cause Analysis - Why Customers Have Bad Service Experiences With Indian Dealers-airvent.jpg

There are some parts of the door panel that are soiled. These can be clearly seen; still no one cared to clean them before returning the car to me.

Root Cause Analysis - Why Customers Have Bad Service Experiences With Indian Dealers-20130830_101905.jpg

Sure enough, someone from DSK called me to get feedback about my service experience. After hearing from me I was assured that this will be taken up with the Service Adviser and I will be contacted again. Its been more than a week and I am still waiting.

DSKs have excellent customer service and I am sure many of our BHP-ians have experienced it but what matters most is what the guys in their workshop do! And I am yet to have a satisfying experience with them. I have read a lot of good things about this dealer but most of these are about new cars or free services.

I also had a Honda CRV and my experience with Crystal Honda was also average. Somehow, I have found service stations in Mumbai to be far more efficient than the ones in Pune especially when it comes to handle old cars.

At DSK, I just don't like their behavior of saying 'Hello Sir' and then kicking you in the back! I have noticed that ever since they launched the Etios and Liva, things have become really shabby. I guess they are not able to manage handling so many cars.
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Old 3rd September 2013, 16:31   #75
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Default Re: Root Cause Analysis - Why Customers Have Bad Service Experiences With Indian Deal

I think the single biggest problem why most service centres offer sub-optimal service to customers is that they just don't listen.

Think about it: the last time you went to a service station, how did the conversation go? Most of us here are reasonably well-informed about our cars though we may not always know the intricate details of how everything works. But suppose you hear (as I did) a weird rattling sound coming from the front of my Swift. What happens? I tell my MAS service advisor exactly that and he scribbles on his service sheet, "Suspension check". Assume that a service advisor on average deals with 10 customers a day. Will he remember later on specifically what the issue was from such a generic description?

In this case what happened was, later that day the guy calls me and tells me my rear suspension needs to be changed. I told him, "But the noise was coming from the front". He hesitates for an instant then says both front and rear need to be changed. Cost? 11,000 bucks.

I told him no way am I changing my entire suspension setup for a niggling noise that he hasn't even bothered investigating properly. Next thing I know the guy is casually suggesting an underbody coating "to protect my car". I ask him- what the hell does underbody coating have to do with suspension? He says, Sir, but it is very useful to protect the car. I told him, the car's 7 years old, don't you think it's a little too late to be thinking of "protection"?

Bottomline: the A.S.S. guys are only interested in selling their high-margin products/services and least bothered about genuine issues the customer may be facing.

I used to have an excellent service advisor at Trident Hyundai, Bangalore back in the day. The best thing about him was that he listened and his suggestion solutions were inevitably relevant. Sometimes they were expensive. But at least I felt assured as a customer that I wasn't buying snake oil.
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