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Old 21st January 2009, 14:51   #166
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Originally Posted by deepclutch View Post
the blame must fully goes to fiat india and the dealers like RF.
Please justify how is FIAT responsible for this?
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Old 21st January 2009, 14:53   #167
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^the answer will mark me as a FIAT bash gang member .still ,it is FIAT's responsibility to check for the proper functioning of dealerships and the customers are not getting cheated with such practices as @muneem explained.why NOT break the partnership with TATA ?
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Old 21st January 2009, 15:01   #168
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Sir if you go browse through the thread you will find numerous instances of various dealerships across manufactures in India involved in such practices .
There is little that the company can do , here when a dealer in some remote part of the country cheating the customers. Breaking the partnership with TATA will not help unless they start their own dealerships/sales/service.
Just because 1 dealer is such a state doesn't mean all FIAT dealerships across India are thieves, just because they sell FIAT . I hope you get my point.
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Old 21st January 2009, 15:10   #169
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Originally Posted by hrag View Post
I *thought* FIAT 1.6 petrol engines didn't require any running in. Even the manual says nothing about this, reportedly. Why the fuss then about ripping a new car at 165 kph?
Only catch is that, he was ripping a customers car.

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Originally Posted by grvanand View Post
Thats right hrag, when I myself took the car to 160 2 days after its delivery, it runs as it should now without any problems, it doesn't call for any run in.
same again, there is a difference between a owner doing it with his own car and a salesman doing it with a customers car.

Anyway, Muneem has agreed that as a mistake so lets move on from there.

Also I think this thread has turned into anti FIAT propaganda, so I guess it should be blocked.

Last edited by SilentEngine : 21st January 2009 at 15:13.
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Old 21st January 2009, 15:17   #170
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Originally Posted by hrag View Post
I *thought* FIAT 1.6 petrol engines didn't require any running in. Even the manual says nothing about this, reportedly. Why the fuss then about ripping a new car at 165 kph?
Quote:
Originally Posted by grvanand View Post
Thats right hrag, when I myself took the car to 160 2 days after its delivery, it runs as it should now without any problems, it doesn't call for any run in.

One thing you probably missed in Muneems post is that he took it at 165kmph through the annhilating 300 kms in such a manner that the brakes started squeaking once he was done with it.

I'm sure thats something I would never want in my new car. Maybe I think differently.
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Old 21st January 2009, 15:26   #171
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My only point was - if the engine doesn't require running-in as per the manual (per owner posts on this forum and one significant other), how does any speed classify as "ripping"?
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Old 21st January 2009, 15:38   #172
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I think the pro-FIAT crowd and the anti-FIAT crowd (and the rest) should look at things in terms of X manufacturer selling cars through Y dealer whose staff abuse the car right from the unloading point to the delivery point, to Z customer.

What has happened here can happen (nay, IS happening) to all cars regardless of manufacturer, dealer, dealer-staff or customer. I am generalizing a bit as far as the dealer and dealer-staff are concerned, but I'm sure this is the rule, rather than the exception.

So when somebody blames FIAT here, let us look beyond FIAT and understand that it is the manufacturer-of-the-car who is being blamed and not just FIAT. It just so happens that in this instance, we are talking about a FIAT car.

I think this is a very important thread. Very. I wouldn't like to spend sleepless nights the next time I buy a car. I will not practically be able to follow every square-inch of the car's progress from the factory to the dealer, in the dealers' yard and so on till I take delivery. There really should be some mechanism by which the buyer can be reasonably sure (without having to move heaven and earth) that the car he is taking delivery of,
- Is not a lemon
- Has not been ripped or abused by the dealer
- Has not been offered to all and sundry to abuse as a TD car
- Is free of defects
- Is in the same condition mechanically and physically as it was when it rolled off the factory floor.

I will IMHO assert that the manufacturer should ensure this. It is the manufacturer's duty to see that this is the case. What if a bottle of Pepsi you buy has a worm in it? Who will you blame? The guy who served it to you (unopened)? The owner of the shop? The distributor? Or Pepsico? I would blame Pepsico. Similarly, when I buy a Maruti Swift, I buy the car trusting that MSIL is handing over to me, through all the intermediaries that the car went through, a car in the same condition as it left their premises. That is why it is a Maruti Swift. And not a Popular Swift, or a Sai Swift.
[Disclaimer: The instance of Pepsi and Pepsico has been taken here just for illustration, and not to imply that Pepsico has bad bottling/quality etc etc practices.]

The manufacturer should put in place checks and processes that will ensure that the car delivered is as good an example of a car they claim to sell. The ultimate responsibility is the manufacturer's. The dealer is accountable to the manufacturer for the treatment of the cars by the dealer staff.

So let us not think in terms of just FIAT here. This could happen to a buyer of Hyundai cars, of Honda cars, of Maruti cars or of any other cars. We do have quite a few threads of this kind here for manufacturers other than FIAT too, don't we?
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Old 21st January 2009, 15:41   #173
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Originally Posted by ms001 View Post
.
There is little that the company can do , here when a dealer in some remote part of the country cheating the customers. Breaking the partnership with TATA will not help unless they start their own dealerships/sales/service.
.
sir - cochin is a very prominent city in a fairly prominent state called Kerala. not remote part of the country by any means/stretch of imagination
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Old 21st January 2009, 16:05   #174
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There is little that the company can do , here when a dealer in some remote part of the country cheating the customers.
That was a welcome break from all the battles going on here
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Old 21st January 2009, 16:16   #175
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Originally Posted by hydrashok View Post

I will IMHO assert that the manufacturer should ensure this. It is the manufacturer's duty to see that this is the case. What if a bottle of Pepsi you buy has a worm in it? Who will you blame? The guy who served it to you (unopened)? The owner of the shop? The distributor? Or Pepsico? I would blame Pepsico. Similarly, when I buy a Maruti Swift, I buy the car trusting that MSIL is handing over to me, through all the intermediaries that the car went through, a car in the same condition as it left their premises. That is why it is a Maruti Swift. And not a Popular Swift, or a Sai Swift.
[Disclaimer: The instance of Pepsi and Pepsico has been taken here just for illustration, and not to imply that Pepsico has bad bottling/quality etc etc practices.]

The manufacturer should put in place checks and processes that will ensure that the car delivered is as good an example of a car they claim to sell. The ultimate responsibility is the manufacturer's. The dealer is accountable to the manufacturer for the treatment of the cars by the dealer staff.
I agree to what you have stated but the case of a soft drink and our car dealer here are not exactly the same.
In the first case the dealer did not open the bottle and put in a lizard, so it is the companies responsibility , but if the waiter opens the bottle before serving
and replaces the contents you cannot blame the company for it can you?

This is exactly what happened in our case.

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Originally Posted by narayan View Post
sir - cochin is a very prominent city in a fairly prominent state called Kerala. not remote part of the country by any means/stretch of imagination
I am sorry i did not mean Cochin is small city, what i meant was there are 100's of dealerships across India , so it may not be possible for the compnay to check all of them all the time.

Last edited by ms001 : 21st January 2009 at 16:21.
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Old 21st January 2009, 16:25   #176
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Originally Posted by hrag View Post
My only point was - if the engine doesn't require running-in as per the manual (per owner posts on this forum and one significant other), how does any speed classify as "ripping"?
Hrishi, as I told you earlier Palio 1.6 User manual has a mention of running-in period, also it is mentioned in Fiat's website as evident from the following post from DrPullockaran (owns a 1.6 GTX) at Palio users group:

Yahoo! Groups

Last edited by finneyp : 21st January 2009 at 16:34.
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Old 21st January 2009, 16:58   #177
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I am sorry i did not mean Cochin is small city, what i meant was there are 100's of dealerships across India , so it may not be possible for the compnay to check all of them all the time.
I'm sorry, but what?!?

The dealership is the company's face to the customer. As a car buyer, you do not deal with anyone from FIAT. From seeing a brochure to getting your keys, you talk and deal with the dealerships. And by extension, it is the company's duty to make sure its customers are protected across every dealership in the country, hundreds, thousands or a single one.

Saying that FIAT (or for that matter, Honda) can't keep tabs on every dealership in the country is absurd. It is their DUTY. We deserve that as their paying customers. We don't give them bricks in exchange for their cars - we give them our hard earned money.

Thinking along that line, Maruthi, which has exponentially higher number of dealerships and service centers across the country manages to keep their customers happier than FIAT or Honda. Why is this so?

Magic?

No. MSIL actually gives a damn about their customers.
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Old 21st January 2009, 17:07   #178
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I'm sorry, but what?!?

Thinking along that line, Maruthi, which has exponentially higher number of dealerships and service centers across the country manages to keep their customers happier than FIAT or Honda. Why is this so?

Magic?

No. MSIL actually gives a damn about their customers.
All the companies want their customers to be happy.
And all of them do "actually gives a damn about their customers"
They are all here to do business. This is just a case of a rouge dealer , it does not mean all the dealers of MSIL are saints and all TATA/FIAT dealers are crooks .
Which other company apart from FIAT has a direct channel for communication with the CEO?
Again i do not wish imply that FIAT has the best practices in the industry .
We all know that the state was pathetic sometime back but they are on the upward trend and for that you may take the feedback from most their customers or else refer to numerous threads.
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Old 21st January 2009, 17:18   #179
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Which other company apart from FIAT has a direct channel for communication with the CEO?
Would you mind posting the CEO's contact details here so that the people can get in touch with him for sorting out their grievances?

Just give one cal to the MSIL helpline and see how the people respond. The service center will come running to you.

Moreover why do we need to go till the CEO to have our issues sorted out. Is he the only person in the company who can do something about about customer grievances?
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Old 21st January 2009, 17:40   #180
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Would you mind posting the CEO's contact details here so that the people can get in touch with him for sorting out their grievances?

Just give one cal to the MSIL helpline and see how the people respond. The service center will come running to you.

Moreover why do we need to go till the CEO to have our issues sorted out. Is he the only person in the company who can do something about about customer grievances?
All the owners here are aware of the details i don' t need to post them.
The thread has again gone OT
FIAT vs the rest.
Let us all stick to the topic? and refrain from pitching one against the other.

P.S. :I never denied that MSIL does not have a good A S S backup.
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