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Old 21st January 2009, 17:43   #181
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Are you contradicting yourselves? Please see the following sentences in same post.

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Originally Posted by ms001 View Post
Sir if you go browse through the thread you will find numerous instances of various dealerships across manufactures in India involved in such practices .
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Just because 1 dealer is such a state doesn't mean all FIAT dealerships across India are thieves, just because they sell FIAT . I hope you get my point.
Problem 1 with your approach:-

I note that "Thousands are being murdered all around the globe, what is wrong with killing yet another" and go and kill muneem and / or his ex-boss the dealer / CEO at RF, and all the service people. I still have murdered only may be 50 - a small drop in the ocean of thousands being murdered. Is my action justified?

Problem 2 with your approach:-

Look at yourselves as a customer, somebody who has paid for something you wished for for a loooong... long time with your hard earned money. Will you accept a used car when you have paid for a new car?

No? Then proceed with reading.

THE BIG QUESTION - Whose job is it to ensure that dealerships have test drive vehicles?

The designer? The fuel station? The tyre vendor? The accessory shop? Huh?

The manufacturer?

Ok. Now you have the answer to this:-

Quote:
There is little that the company can do , here when a dealer in some remote part of the country cheating the customers. Breaking the partnership with TATA will not help unless they start their own dealerships/sales/service.
In other words, a company which is unable to keep tabs on its dealers, a company which is unable to maintain proper standards of service to customers, a company which is unable to ensure test drive cars at the dealership has no business to exist.

I believe that Tatas are able to ensure availability of TD vehicles (of course, not to the extent Maruti - Suzuki does). Why not Fiat? They are not in the business of super ultra luxury cars like RR. Porsche, Maybach or Ferrari.
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Old 21st January 2009, 17:54   #182
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Originally Posted by BaCkSeAtDrIVeR View Post
Are you contradicting yourselves? Please see the following sentences in same post.



In other words, a company which is unable to keep tabs on its dealers, a company which is unable to maintain proper standards of service to customers, a company which is unable to ensure test drive cars at the dealership has no business to exist.
Sorry but i don't think that that statements are contradictory in any way whatsoever.

About the second part it does not matter if you and some others think that "FIAT has has no business to exist"
They have survived , weather or not they continue to do so remains to be seem in the coming months.

Note: Marked TD cars are available in Bangalore (Linea). I'am not aware about other places.
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Old 21st January 2009, 18:21   #183
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Originally Posted by vikram_d View Post
I wonder if people have actually tried contacting the CEO and if they have been successful.
This is still off topic, but I have interacted with the CEO office through the "CEO corner" provided in Fiat India website. So far, I have sent 4 mails and I have got replies to each one of them. It takes about 2 days for them to reply though.

I do not believe that their CEO types each reply, but I believe there is someone from the office who replies to your queries.
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Old 21st January 2009, 18:31   #184
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I have sent an email from the Fiat India website regarding my friends experience. Link fromt he "CEO Corner". Dont expect a response though:(
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Old 21st January 2009, 19:03   #185
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Given below is a classic example from this thread of how some people bring in the F word, where there was none, leading to the Fiat wars.

This was what BackSeatDriver had to say. Note that he is talking in general about any company that does not have some basic dealer-control process in place.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaCkSeAtDrIVeR
In other words, a company which is unable to keep tabs on its dealers, a company which is unable to maintain proper standards of service to customers, a company which is unable to ensure test drive cars at the dealership has no business to exist.
But see how ms001 has interpreted it. Where did Fiat come in from here ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ms001
About the second part it does not matter if you and some others think that "FIAT has has no business to exist". They have survived , weather or not they continue to do so remains to be seem in the coming months.
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Old 21st January 2009, 19:06   #186
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Originally Posted by jasher26 View Post
hi muneem, it was interesting to read your post. I went for a test drive of the linea on saturday with a friend who wants to buy a new car. it was a test drive car, emotion + , diesel, maroon / red (dont know the name of the color). We sat with the sales guy for the pricing and my friend was interested in the silver color but wanted to see the car before booking it. The sales guy told us that he would call him when a silver car would be delivered as a customer had booked one on the day of the launch

My friend was called yesterday to see the car and to his amazement there were three people already there who were test driving that car!!

How can Fiat allow agencies to do this especially with a new launch ? Maruti and Hyundai never do this, atleast not in South Mumbai. Maruti for a fact has test cars for all their brands. I know this as their cars are parked in a garage opposite my house.

Imagine the plight of the customer . You pay 7 lakhs and people are test driving your car before it is delivered to you.

Infact the same was told to me a few months ago for the Palio 1.6 Stile. That he would call me when a customers car is coming as they do not have the test car

P.S. : My friend was completely put off and not considering buying the Linea
Wow! I can understand such things happening in some "remote" corner, in a good for nothing dealership where Muneer is working, but in Mumbai, the financial capital of India?

Really surprising, I really thought with muneemk out of the way, all this was supposed to stop, right?
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Old 21st January 2009, 19:10   #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supremeBaleno View Post
Given below is a classic example from this thread of how some people bring in the F word, where there was none, leading to the Fiat wars.

This was what BackSeatDriver had to say. Note that he is talking in general about any company that does not have some basic dealer-control process in place.


But see how ms001 has interpreted it. Where did Fiat come in from here ?
I totally get your point , but as the title of the thread suggests we are discussing about FIAT "mis"handling right? Thats why i added the so called F word.
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Old 21st January 2009, 19:12   #188
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SupBaleno, please stop playing a peacemaker on all threads with 'F' word!

Backseatdriver was indirectly referring to Fiat, unless you thought it was Tata or Maruti.
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Old 21st January 2009, 19:18   #189
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A customer is the most important visitor on our premises, he is not dependent on us.
We are dependent on him.
He is not an interruption in our work.
He is the purpose of it.
He is not an outsider in our business.
He is part of it.
We are not doing him a favor by serving him.
He is doing us a favor by giving us an opportunity to do so.
-------------------
Mahatma (2 October 1869 - Forever)


Is the buyer purchasing a product from the Dealer. YES. (the service)
Is the buyer purchasing a product from the Manufacturer. YES. (the product)

The sales man has duty towards his Karma.
The guy who created this thread neglected it in the begining.
However good sense prevailed and he moved away from it.
That takes courage and I salute him for that.
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Old 21st January 2009, 19:29   #190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ms001 View Post
All the companies want their customers to be happy.
And all of them do "actually gives a damn about their customers"
They are all here to do business. This is just a case of a rouge dealer , it does not mean all the dealers of MSIL are saints and all TATA/FIAT dealers are crooks .
Doing business does not equal wanting customers to be happy. Doing business is hoodwinking the poor sod into paying for the car. You got the money, end of story.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ms001 View Post
Which other company apart from FIAT has a direct channel for communication with the CEO?
Again i do not wish imply that FIAT has the best practices in the industry .
We all know that the state was pathetic sometime back but they are on the upward trend and for that you may take the feedback from most their customers or else refer to numerous threads.
Why should the end user have to go bother the CEO to get anything done?
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Old 21st January 2009, 19:40   #191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ImmortalZ View Post
Doing business does not equal wanting customers to be happy. Doing business is hoodwinking the poor sod into paying for the car. You got the money, end of story.
Oh, is that how Honda is doing business in India?
On top of that, they charge a premium for their cars!


Quote:
Why should the end user have to go bother the CEO to get anything done?
He never mentioned end user need to contact CEO to get anything done, he meant there is a channel available to get in touch with CEO directly, which I guess is not possible with other Car cos. in India.

Last edited by finneyp : 21st January 2009 at 19:57.
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Old 21st January 2009, 20:45   #192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vikram_d View Post
I wonder if people have actually tried contacting the CEO and if they have been successful.

PS: I used to love Fiats till the time when I went and bought a Palio. From there it was all downhill.
Posted it elsewhere too.

rajeev.kapoor@fiat.com is the email ID and it got responses from mumbai, pune, gurgaon (both sales & service depts) - total of 9 people called up, asking me to reconsider Swift booking and how they could facilitate me buying the palio.

The only reason I stayed away was the scum dealership. But Fiat did all it could.

And its a very funny idealist notion on the forum here - anyone who invests 15 cr to setup a dealership typically has black money and political connections. Please get a reality check with someone who has worked with dealerships - yes, Maruti ensures dedicated TD cars, but its financial initiatives surely.

They normally have ZERO control on the dealers.
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Old 21st January 2009, 21:01   #193
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Whew!!! just when I thought that I am out of this thread, this vey valid and worth debating point comes up.

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Originally Posted by phamilyman View Post
And its a very funny idealist notion on the forum here - anyone who invests 15 cr to setup a dealership typically has black money and political connections. Please get a reality check with someone who has worked with dealerships - yes, Maruti ensures dedicated TD cars, but its financial initiatives surely.

They normally have ZERO control on the dealers.
Now, that makes me curious. I would have believed the last statement may be 10 years back. Those were the days you needed to be related to a MLA / MP / Minister to get delivery of a RE Rick on time. Bagging a dealership obviously meant existence of more clout.

That not the case now - is what I believe. If that situation still persists, why are MSIL dealers begging and cringing in front of you for good reviews / feed back to MSIL?

Anybody with a net worth of 5 Cr or more and / or any business man with annual income of above 5 crore is bound to have good relationships with ALL political parties in the area. In places like Kerala, the need for businessmen to cringe and grovel before the local chotta politico is extreme. IN fact, there was a cycle factory, just couple of plots near RF, which functioned for 3 days, and closed down after a 10 year strike due to lack of politicl connections.

My point is - the Manufacturer has no reason to kow-tow to such chotta politico (if at all such influence is relevant); what prevents them from throwing out the errant dealership?
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Old 21st January 2009, 21:05   #194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by finneyp View Post
Oh, is that how Honda is doing business in India?
On top of that, they charge a premium for their cars!
I grouped Honda with FIAT in my earlier post. If this becomes another Honda vs. FIAT thread, it is going to be entirely your fault. Do not take me for a fanboy, fanboy.

EDIT: Note from mod, please watch your tone and keep discussion civil

Last edited by tsk1979 : 22nd January 2009 at 05:08.
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Old 22nd January 2009, 01:50   #195
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I was getting a bit bored off late with Team BHP, and now this thread has rekindled my interest.

It'd only be fair to state here that i do own a fiat, which was largely serviced and maintained by the same dealership under discussion. And moreover, I am also guilty of throwing away a sales job largely due to reasons that are similar, but not identical to that of muneemk. So I feel that i might be able to empathise a bit with muneemk here. Let me chip in a few cents of my views, before this thread eventually gets locked.

1.Muneemk was really bold to pen down his 'service story' with the kind of honesty that shocks everybody.kudos for that. I, for one could've never done that on my own. Good show.

2.While he has revealed with shocking clarity how the dealership had been mismanaged by RF motors, many who had a first hand experience with the said dealer wouldn't be shocked at all. In facft I myself can author a whole new thread on the inept, irreverent and essentialy rude service crew they have up there.

3 I don't feel that munneem here has committed any offence driving a random car upto 165 ks. I Suppose this is an automotive forum,and that is what guys like us do when we get chances like that. I believe that the damage caused to the engine/drivetrain/entire car was well worth the experience. I am no M K Ghandhi, when it comes to having a bit of harmless fun, and seriously if you want to find fault, you can find them on any one.The kind of personal attack he received here for something of his own admission [he could have very well hidden this detail] is no way warranted.

4. As far as selling a lemon to the unsuspecting customer thingy goes, all I can say is that it does happen everywhere,right from your neighborhood fruit vendor to the people who sells an entire neighborhood.
Now what intend here is that everybody who sells, do sell lemons ocassionally.That is inevitable.
What really matters here is the amount of DAMAGE CONTROL that is done in such cases, and also the FREQUENCY at which lemons are being sold.
Imho, the former depends on the company's marketing policy, and the latter on production quality.
While the information provided here by muneemk is not sufficient enough to conclude that FIAT produces cars of inconsistent quality, however, it is seen that once such a thing happens, little is done by way of damage control. Hence i am inclined to conclude that FIAT Management,ie sales/marketing is to be blamed.

5. Other instance of general mismanagement and lack of ethics seems to be more dealer specific than pertaining to the company .It'd be helpful to know if they display the same level of ineptness in handling the TATA part of the dealership as well . Although i have reasons to believe so, it is better that we hear it straight from the horse's mouth



I have made the following assumptions before reaching this conclusions. If any of them are wrong, I may stand to be corrected.
a Muneemk being a sales man,his daily bread depends on him selling the car; lemon or not do not matter.
b Dealer has to purchase the car from the manufacturer and in turn sell it to the customer.
c It is in the company policy, but never practised, to take back lemons and issue new cars free of cost, if the dealer certifies so [I'D like to know how it is practiced in other trades also]

Hence if i generalize the case of lemon [ just so that i can take fiat out of the equation], if a company produced a lemon and sent it to their dealer, and the dealer tried to sell it to the customer in turn, thru the salesman, i'd say it is the company who's at fault here, because the dealer as well as the sales man are mere instruments as far as the company is concerned.

It is but common knowledge that the distributor would find himself another sales man, if the current one exhibits conscience prick when asked to sell a lemon.This is one field where ruthlessness,foul-mouth and a bad temper are considered qualifications for managers [ I might be over reacting, but this am stating frm my own observation]

I Guess the most simple and economical solution for as far as the dealer is concerned would be to dispose the car off , and pass the headache on to some unsuspecting customer, which he rightfully did

I'D Like to know how this undesired situation is avoided by different auto manufacturers, and also if some one can compare this with a similar situation in their respective trade/industry and how things are handled there, as opposed to what happened in this example.


Sorry guys for the rather long post, the actual reason is that i've got nothing else to do which is worthwhile.

Last edited by aravindwarrier : 22nd January 2009 at 01:54.
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