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Old 29th January 2009, 16:49   #256
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This is sad, I thought that Tata Dealers would change over time.

I think Fiat has made another in their long line of mistakes in India.

They offer an excellent car but what about the buying & post purchase experience.

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Originally Posted by amit View Post
Which dealer was this? The Linea has recieved a very good response and any dealer should be excited about a potential best seller so this guys behavior is really weird! Also, trying to push a Vista over the Linea just proves what a moron he is. These cars will appeal to different sets of customers. Just shows that the dealer is really in a business that he doesn't understand.

Anyway, the salesperson that showed me the Linea was also quite lethargic. Maybe he was tired, I don't know but a new product always gets people excited so I don't know what the problem is with Tata /Fiat salesguys. At this moment, I'd say the Linea is pretty much selling itself. When I was in the dealership, the salesperson told me about the radical features like A/c, Power steering and power windows!



I always knew it. Having sold euro cars in Canada, I can say that Europeans are BIG kanjoss's.



Logically. But since when did the Fiat guys develop brains?!
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Old 30th January 2009, 12:01   #257
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Originally Posted by muneemmk View Post
My first shot of reality about the infamous TATA/FIAT A S S came to me when I was faced with an angered customer who had taken a Palio MJD SDX, two months back , the very second day itself his car's power steering had started leaking from the Power Steering Pump side, the car was certainly under warranty but the issue as always was that the part was not available,the customer care personal responded that the part had been ordered the very next day that problem was reported , but I found out that the Spare parts division had not ordered the spare as they didn't know that new part number of the power steering pump as all the part numbers had been changed after the TATA takeover. Luckily no one tried explaining that to the customer. Does he need to know weather TATA or Mahindra took over Fiat ? He bought a car and he has not been able to drive it around,that's all he knows that's all that he needs to know.After all the shouting swearing and threatening to go to court, he got his power steering pump replaced after 2 and half months of waiting, and that part again was not directly from Fiat India but from another Dealer in Trivandrum.So this guy after the first day of purchasing the new car had been going around in this car refueling not just diesel but 150rs worth of Power steering fluid everyday.!!!
Wow, that is just inexcusable. It's clear that it's the dealers who are running FIAT into the ground. They blame the company for their incompetence and save their hide at FIAT's expense. Still, whether it is the A S S or the company itself that is at fault, it's the customer who gets screwed over.

But, I still don't get why this guy had to fill the fluid every day. Why didn't he just drive it without power steering? It's not a truck. The dealership could have just taken it off. That was stupid.

[QUOTE =muneemmk;1124965]The Next surprise came to me when, I found out that most of the accessories that are available in the market can't be installed on Fiat Cars,The PCD of the wheels are Fiat specific, Central locking or power windows can't be installed as an aftermarket fitment.Even if a car has Central locking if you want to add a remote central locking to it you simply can't.The ECU simply rejects all extra electrical in the wiring harness If you still install one,by any chance,when ever you unlock your car the rear doors not only unlock but they spring open wide!!!![/quote]

Yeah, I've heard this one before. Hard to find alloys that fit right, it seems. But it's not entirely unexpected, considering that the car is the only European model in the country, in that price range. I think it has to do with EU regulations or something.

[QUOTE =muneemmk;1124965]Things started going down the drain for me from my first car delivery, the car itself was a True Lemon in every way.This particular car was once delivered to another customer but broke down on the way back from registration, the customer declined to take this car and since that day this Palio SDX MJD have been with the dealer.i.e for almost six months, one fine day I found a poor bloke who was willing to take this car,since the car looked good with all the accessories fitted on it(for the previous customer) and offered all those accessories as free of cost as most of it can't be removed from the car(sun film,Seat covers etc). The customer was just delighted to get all these freebies and just went ahead and paid me the whole money.The car's delivery was committed and I got 3 of the doors repainted again as all of them were scratched or dented, but when the customer came for delivery I found that the paint from repainting the doors got scattered on the front door which was the only one factory painted now,so I got the fourth door also painted. The Delivery was committed at 11 in the morning which was postponed to 6 in the evening to finish such works and also to hide all the dents,bad paint jobs since after dark the customer wouldn't notice such things.The customer had asked to fit a Stereo system on the car along with Blaupunkt speakers, also a remote central locking system,and a cigar lighter I didn't know of this till the time of delivery as the customer approached the accessories department directly and ordered this stuff.the car was at last delivered at 7 in the night, the customer came the vehicle and the documents were explained to him, he sat in the car, started it and turned the A/C on and Boooom, The A/C went kaput ,it simply blew a fuse it was replaced immediately with one from the showroom display car, the customer was happy and went off, 15 minutes later he came dashing back to the showroom, except for the driver door all the other doors were jammed, after having spent close to 5.25 lakhs he didn't have a car to go home that night. I simply sulked away from the scene I had no explanations to give or condolences to make.The next day this chap got his car rectified and went home happy, the day after he was again seen in the showroom with the same complaint this time his wife was stuck in the rear seat and the doors wouldn't open, he left the car again in the showroom for checking the doors , gave the car next day after fixing everything , the 5th day the customer is back again with the same problems I simply stayed away from him.Also i found that he got Cheap Chinese Pioneer Speakers instead of the blaupunkts that he had ordered.Don't know what happened of the the guy was last seen begging the Service adviser to fix his car for good or take it back. Oh and he seemed to have noticed the small dent on the bonnet too and have stared complaining about that too.He told me this "THE BIGGEST MISTAKE IN MY LIFE EVER WAS BUYING A CAR FROM YOU"[/quote]

So, this guy bought a car that he knew, had been lying around the dealership for months, because he was getting freebies? And, he took it without getting a test drive checking it for dents/scratches or anything? I'm wondering why I don't feel too sorry for the guy. I'm assuming though, that you were honest and told him the history of the car.

Still, the dealership should have at least done its part well. Swapping out cheap speakers for Blaupunkts, for one, and the obviously shoddy installation of the central locking system is appaling. And the customer knows this too, IMO, because he too blames the dealership and not the company. No complaints about the car itself, just the accessories.

Fiat dealers all over the country have a history for dumping old cars on customers. There was a horror-story in Autocar about someone who got a mothballed Palio Weekend, couple years back.
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Old 3rd February 2009, 03:35   #258
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Originally Posted by vivekgk View Post

But, I still don't get why this guy had to fill the fluid every day. Why didn't he just drive it without power steering? It's not a truck. The dealership could have just taken it off. That was stupid.

Yeah, I've heard this one before. Hard to find alloys that fit right, it seems. But it's not entirely unexpected, considering that the car is the only European model in the country, in that price range. I think it has to do with EU regulations or something.

Still, the dealership should have at least done its part well. Swapping out cheap speakers for Blaupunkts, for one, and the obviously shoddy installation of the central locking system is appaling. And the customer knows this too, IMO, because he too blames the dealership and not the company. No complaints about the car itself, just the accessories.

Fiat dealers all over the country have a history for dumping old cars on customers. There was a horror-story in Autocar about someone who got a mothballed Palio Weekend, couple years back.
I drove around without filling fluid in my Amby's Power steering guess what apart from the Profiteering rack's oil seals i'll have to find a new power steering pump too, so running any motor without proper lubrication is going to burn it big time.

And regarding the PCD I have my doubts on that too, Whats the PCD of Logan,Skoda,Jetta ? and what EU regulations of wheel bolt PCD.

The accessories were swapped,but last day I talked to the person who installed the central locking in that car , he said when he came to install the central locking kit itself the car was having issues with the door actuators, so I guess thats not a problem with the accessories fitment but the Car's problem , and the car braking down while coming from registration ? A/C fuses burning up , all these are totally unrelated to Accessories fitment.

There are 400+ days old Palio(petrol) available with many Fiat dealers ,anybody want one ? But it will be a bargain in my opinion.

No it's just going to be a burden.Having a lemon is bad , having a 400+ day old lemon is bad squared.

Last edited by muneemmk : 3rd February 2009 at 03:37.
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Old 3rd February 2009, 04:54   #259
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Oh my god!!
Im horrified after i came across this thread... After reading the 1st post itself, i was in shock. If this is the state of car dealers then i wonder why the companies dont take strict action & revoke licenses & lay down strict rules & regulations to follow.

Im a potential Linea customer & am completely discouraged after reading all this. A pity that though the cars are such competent and excellent cars, only due to dealers, they fail to sell.

I would say let us, at T-BHP, get in touch directly with companies and give them a clue as to what is happening. This may help better things as companies can then have audits & find solutions to fix this widespread nuisance.
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Old 3rd February 2009, 11:32   #260
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* duplicate post *
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Old 4th February 2009, 12:12   #261
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Default Nothing new

Actually whats been mentioned is nothing new and totally expected in cases but yet sends shivers when one actually documents and reads about it.

I feel the Dealer is the one who is majorly responsible in this case. (90% of the blame.), but Fiat and Tata too are at some fault.

Also felt that out here in India this pretty much depicts all Manufacturers (Including the International names.) We have heard of and read stories of Skodas, Mercs, and BMW's as well having major unacceptable faults in delivered cars.

The Dealer should have by now been sacked or atleast been properly pulled up by Tata/ Fiat. Hope some one on TBHP has reported this to thread to them directly.

There would be more such stories that others Service Advisors (who wish to leave this type of a job permanently) can report. (They would obviously not be recruited in a hurry by other dealers or vendors.) The thread has been started by a brave Man, though in some areas I felt he himself was partially at fault in a few select aspects (I say this with great reluctance as it was indeed he himself who had to go through the overall bad experience) and I do hold the Dealer a lot more accountable for the instances that are mentioned that the Car Vendors themselves.
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Old 5th February 2009, 21:42   #262
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Originally Posted by BomBatt View Post
How many times Honda/Ford/GM/Maruti has directly responded to customer complaints against their dealers and acted on it?

.
i can vouch for honda being a honda owner for of 6 years. honda does act on complaints in a better way than any of its competitors ever can.
last example was for an accessory for my new city which was not in stock inspite of ordering it 3 months ago. after escalations to honda i get a call from their side saying that part has arrived and is being given free of cost to you to in some way compensate for the inconvenience we caused to you..
this is my experience with honda....

my tata,mahindra,fiat,maruti,hyundai,ford experiences have been so horrible that i have never ventured into their dealerships again.
outdated cars, third rate sales staff, shoddy service support, take or leave it attitude etc etc.... maybe others have had better opinions with these manufacturers/dealers but i can never spend my hard earned money on any of these car manufacturers.
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Old 9th February 2009, 11:48   #263
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Originally Posted by f50xj13 View Post
i can vouch for honda being a honda owner for of 6 years. honda does act on complaints in a better way than any of its competitors ever can.
last example was for an accessory for my new city which was not in stock inspite of ordering it 3 months ago. after escalations to honda i get a call from their side saying that part has arrived and is being given free of cost to you to in some way compensate for the inconvenience we caused to you..
this is my experience with honda....
.
The gesture from Honda none the less still indicated that the Honda Dealer / Honda Support was as bad as that of others. (Took 3 months to get the accessory delivered.) The delay in the first place itself was too high. Even if one orders an accessory that is not in stock it should not take more than 1 month getting the item imported.

Just my feel about the delay, though it is good to see that Honda did acknowledge their mistake and tried to correct the same.

The Mumbai floods had a relatively low number of Hondas that were submerged and yet Honda had took the most time to get the cars that came in for repairs back on the Road. Tata was relatively better off in this aspect, with a much heavier load.
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Old 9th February 2009, 20:48   #264
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The whole sad tale naratted by Muneem appalls and saddens me. The ignorance, incompetence, utter dishonesty & callousness of the dealer and its employees and the indifference of the manufacturers is so blatant it borders on hubris.

Yes, the employees (including, unfortunately, our member) were equally responsible, just look at their faults and lapses -

1. unwilling to clean vehicles, (whatever happened to 'dignity of labour')

2. unable to prepare a vehicle for delivery,

3. failure to use proper shields/masking while painting,

4. incapable of filling in body imperfections before painting,

5. knowingly and with premeditation, scheduling the delivery to a time when the defects would not be visible,

6. intentionally selling an old lemon to a customer even though the man on the front line had the choice of delivering another car,

7. driving vehicles in stock recklessly and without regard to the manufacturers instructions regarding running-in,

8. inability to recommend appropriate after market accesories and fixtures,

9. attempting to fit accesories and fittings knowing fully well that they are incapable of doing so,

10. lack of communication between employees (our member was not told that the customer had ordered some extra fittings),

11. failing to familiarise themselves with the part nos. (old and new),

12. when unable to order parts due to ignorance of the part nos., not bringing it to the notice of the manager/dealer/customer/manufacturer,

13. passing off poor quality goods, (speakers)

14. insisting "it is not my job" for almost every other thing. (To this day I remember with warmth and respect the driver in the place I worked 20 years ago. This gem of a man would potter around the office doing odd jobs - fixing office machinery, electrical equipment, tending to plants, etc. generally making himself useful, none of which was his job.)

The list of lapses of omission and comission goes on forever, the dealer is responsible inasmuch as he did not bother to hire competent persons and educate them properly. The dealer seems intent only in making a quick buck. The manufacturer is at fault for putting up with such unscrupulous people.

The whole automobile dealership and authorised service centre business in India seems to be stuck in the 1970's when only 2 or 3 vehicles were available. In those days, if you wanted to buy a car (for your son or son-in-law), you paid a king's ransom as "booking deposit" when you were 18, then you settled down, got married and had kid(s). Your kid would turn 18 and would be old enough to take delivery of the car. If the kid (or son in law) was money minded, he would sell the car at a HUGE premium. LOL - even used cars were sold after 3 or more years, at a premium to the list price of the car! The dealer in those days had to just sit back and rake in the moolah, (crowd control of the guys queueing up to book the cars was their only job). There were several people who made a career of booking vehicles and selling them on delivery.

All told, the tale narrated here is not news. The practices mentioned here are widespread and prevalent across all brands. I have found ignorant and incompetent (not to mention unscrupulous) dealers and service stations for all brands.

The sad bit is the extent of the rot in our society (the only person who showed any redeeming qualities in the narrative in this thread is Muneem's father - hats off to your Sir). The appalling bit is that we have become complacent about it and, are content with pointing fingers, particularly at those favourite whipping boys - "evil MNCs & big business".

Cheers,
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Old 9th February 2009, 21:33   #265
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Default Back to square one!!!

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Originally Posted by Ravveendrra View Post
1. unwilling to clean vehicles, (whatever happened to 'dignity of labour')

2. unable to prepare a vehicle for delivery, ,
Dude, he was a salesman; not a service advisor.

Quote:
3. failure to use proper shields/masking while painting,

4. incapable of filling in body imperfections before painting,
Ditto. again.

Quote:
5. knowingly and with premeditation, scheduling the delivery to a time when the defects would not be visible,
Yeh. BUt he has been enough for that.

Quote:
6. intentionally selling an old lemon to a customer even though the man on the front line had the choice of delivering another car,
Explained earlier.


Quote:
7. driving vehicles in stock recklessly and without regard to the manufacturers instructions regarding running-in,
Yes. He was beaten up by the Kochi TBHP Gang for that. Did you not see the pic?

Quote:
8. inability to recommend appropriate after market accesories and fixtures,

9. attempting to fit accesories and fittings knowing fully well that they are incapable of doing so,
Me is now left with head scratching. What is this about?

Quote:
10. lack of communication between employees (our member was not told that the customer had ordered some extra fittings),
Quote:
11. failing to familiarise themselves with the part nos. (old and new),

12. when unable to order parts due to ignorance of the part nos., not bringing it to the notice of the manager/dealer/customer/manufacturer,
Oh. God. All ye sales men and service advisors, thou shalt memorise the 12 digit codes for all parts of all variants of all carsthat thee seil / maintain.
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Old 9th February 2009, 21:46   #266
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Originally Posted by Ravveendrra View Post
Yes, the employees (including, unfortunately, our member) were equally responsible, just look at their faults and lapses -

1. unwilling to clean vehicles, (whatever happened to 'dignity of labour')

OUCH!

I am sorry Ravveendrra but you are being more than a tad unfair and unreasonable. Most of the points raised by you are clearly not in his scope of work!

He was recruited to sell cars - and NOT to wash cars! Its the organisations responsibility to explain the scope of work BEFORE you take on a person. By your logic, if you were to be employed with a builder selling real estate, you will be happy to sweep, swab and clean the flat/building till you succeed selling it ?? I suppose not!
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Old 9th February 2009, 22:39   #267
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Default My post referred to all the employees

@ KB100 & backseatdriver,

My post referred to all the employees. In fact I specifically referred to the sales man not being informed by others about the accessories to be fitted.

In my line of work, there are several thousands if not hundreds of thousands of references. One never memorised them, but one did learn how to find the correct reference. In relation to the spares part catalogues, rarely have I found a person who has committed to memory more than a few of those codes. The diligent ones however educate themselves and learn how to find the right code and not just say "It is not my job" or "It is impossible to memorise them".

It is this difference in attitude between "chalta hai" and "do a good job of it", that I was trying to point out.

Cheers,
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Old 11th February 2009, 13:58   #268
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravveendrra View Post
@ KB100 & backseatdriver,

My post referred to all the employees. In fact I specifically referred to the sales man not being informed by others about the accessories to be fitted.

I cannot understand what exactly has Muneemmk done wrong? If someone does not tell you something, then how are you to be blamed?

Sorry to disagree again - but you said - and I quote ..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravveendrra View Post

Yes, the employees (including, unfortunately, our member) were equally responsible, just look at their faults and lapses -

1...
2...
3...


May I recommend you re-read your post - it will seem to anyone reading it that you are damning poor muneemmk directly - which is the only reason that I chose to respond. However if this was not the intent then no harm done - except one must be a lot more careful with what we say and how we say it! Generalisations are always dangerous!
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Old 11th February 2009, 15:11   #269
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I think the whole thing ultimately boils down to 'Pride of Profession'. Unfortunately, this is lacking in our country. The German takes pride and satisfaction in perfection, as does the Japanese. Here we do not care.

The day we have pride of profession, all other things will automatically follow.
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Old 11th February 2009, 15:28   #270
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Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
I think the whole thing ultimately boils down to 'Pride of Profession'. Unfortunately, this is lacking in our country. The German takes pride and satisfaction in perfection, as does the Japanese. Here we do not care.

The day we have pride of profession, all other things will automatically follow.
Kya baat hai! Well said Sir! You hit the nail on its head.

I hope our country learns the importance of having Pride of Profession soon. The sooner the better it is for us as a nation.
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