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Old 17th January 2009, 19:23   #106
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Originally Posted by crn12 View Post
I dont understand is why blame FIAT for all this? Would it be right for you to see whats happening and not try correcting it..Have you escalated all these issues to FIAT India? If I were you I would have done this..and then probably taken the decision.
If any employer knowingly neglects ethics, and forces employees to resort to illegal and unethical practices, they surely deserve blame! Not sure why you think otherwise?

And about "raising" the issue, do you really believe that FIAT India does not know what is going on? Anyway, at least now, from reading this thread, they surely know. Do you think anything will change?

I understand many of us love Fiats to death, let that not blind us please?

@muneer - thank you so much for taking the trouble to pen this...
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Old 17th January 2009, 19:45   #107
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Even if he feels he can Escalate this issue to Fiat ,i think the option is there on the website.If we give proper feedback then only company will know what happens at dealership.
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Old 17th January 2009, 20:21   #108
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Just to add:

I had a fantastic experience with Maruti Deleaship. I wanted a delivery on Sunday and the sales-executive had no hesitation. He arranged the delivery at the agreed time, and registration, accessries completely done. He had also arranged a technicial to give me a demo. Superb...

He told me that TC (trade Certificate) are valid only for the Dealer's use provided by the manufacturer. Dealer needs to deliver a vehicle either with a temporary registration (if planning to take outside juridiction of the their RTO) or with a permanant registration. Dealer cannot handover a vehicle only with TC, it is illegal and it is the resposibility of the delear if the vehicle is used on TC. If you have taken a loan then the finance company also needs the registration details (temp or permanant) before delivery.
He also mentioned that sometimes sub-dealers sell the vehicles (especially two wheeler sub-dealers) on TC, but somehow they bypass the system.


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Originally Posted by BaCkSeAtDrIVeR View Post
Muneer, I admire you for using your real name to post this story. ;-)

Some comments:-

1. Trade certificate (numbers with "TC" rather than "TEMP") are valid only for taking the vehicle between manufacturer to dealer, dealer's godowns and from dealership to registration office. If the vehicle is to be registered at a place outside the place of dealer's business place, the dealer has to make a temp registration before delivering the vehicle.
.
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Old 17th January 2009, 20:38   #109
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Originally Posted by architect View Post
A major overhaul in the entire system is required. Before suggesting any major managerial / HR / Policy changes, maybe the companies ought to look at the fact that whether any dealer will follow their dictats, given such amounts of security they charge from them. Or would they simply cut corners at any cost, and continue in the same way.
I too agree with this point. Do you guys think this is happening only with RF? Or only with TATA/FIAT?

The manufacturers itelf do many unethical things to boost their sales / clear their old stock. The best example you can see is a sharp price hike in every Jan without any proper reason. They will still sell the previous year cars on old price. This is how they clear all previous year stock, which otherwise customers try avoid purchasing.

Last edited by HotChillyPepper : 17th January 2009 at 20:40.
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Old 17th January 2009, 20:57   #110
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Angry

Cheating at MASS (AM Motors, Malappuram, Kerala)
My Swift Zxi crashed by company dealership!
Popular Hyundai Trivandrum - My experience
First Choice Trivandrum - Worst of the lot
HM-Mitsubishi India Garage, pathetic service saga continues
Bad Service at Advaith Hyundai - Rajajinagar, Bangalore
God save Pune Honda owners from monopolistic situation
Bad Service Experience at Mohan Motors [M.A.S.S.], Kolkata
Advaith Hyundai - Bangalore - Worst Experience
Downtown Hyundai - Acting Suspiciously

These are some random thread headings in this section of Team-BHP.

Now only if more and more muneems working at other dealers resign and come out...

The bottom line is
Is hamaam mein sab nange hein
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Old 17th January 2009, 22:10   #111
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Originally Posted by muneemmk View Post
Yes I did rip a 1.6 @ 165kmph which I shouldn’t have; please forgive me for my thoughtless behavior. The Drive was too long the road was too good the car was just terrific. I hope everyone is happy that I repent over what I did.
Sad to see such terrific cars being spoilt by such terrible dealerships.
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Old 17th January 2009, 22:31   #112
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Originally Posted by BaCkSeAtDrIVeR View Post

Edit:-

I have a feeling that it is the dealerships which pay poorly to its staff that also end up providing poor service to customers.

But then, this ends up as a vicious cycle. No good pay because poor sales; and poor sales because only second class people go to work for the second class dealerships. This seems to hold good for even Maruti.

The theory was framed by biwi herself - she works in a PSU bank, and her role before we got the car was doling out loans in a sem-urban town near Trichur. She would always say that people from delearship X were more competent and prompt than those from dealership Y; and would occassionally comment that salesman A, working for Y would switch over to X because X paid better salaries. But then, X had better infrastructure, and more turnover, so could afford to.
Its all a question of how well the company or dealership is run from the top. The top management is critical in places like this. If the CEo of the dealership is a guy who has a dont care attitude I just want money - then he is going to pay less salaries to his employees and simultaneously take his customers for a ride - to cut corners and make money. But if the management are people who truly want to build an enterprise, well you get the drift.

So far - even FIAT in India (or in Italy for that matter) have never had a steadfast CEO who truly believed in the brand and use words like "bring the old glory days back to FIAT". We have had tremendous management flux and that is never good for any brand or company. Things like top management accepting bribes came out in the papers in FIAT India. Add to that the global woes. Considering FIAT set itself right thanks to Marchionne about 2 years back, the sights are set on India to turn things around. And, every step they are taking today is in that direction.

Now, since I am so adamantly rooting for FIAT...I have owned three new-age FIAT cars (across the 1.2, the S10, and the Petra Diesel) in the past two years and have let go off them. I think I will be very very careful to put my money in this brand again because of issues we all know arise post-purchase. That said, this is a company thats engineering change. I will wait for them to engineer it, and keep it engineered for sometime atleast before I put my money to work with them again.

Lastly, hats off to Muneem for penning this down. All the people who have abused him - can you please write here about your own ethic/moral values? For example - have any of you lied (even to get out of a sticky situation)? Come on, dont use this place to judge a fellow member's moral values, you know yourself that you have pretty much no right to do that (even our Mahatma Gandhi never passed judgement on others). I have learnt a lot from his post, and I will be doubly careful IF and WHEN I buy a new car. I guess that applies to buying even used cars.

HELL, when you're buying anything. Peace.
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Old 17th January 2009, 23:12   #113
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Originally Posted by BomBatt View Post
Now only if more and more muneems working at other dealers resign and come out...
what did you actually mean by this ?

And everyone can go Yada Yada over my unethical practice, I have my serious doubts weather anyone of you guys would be much different in my position. But i'll refrain from posting anymore about my unethical practises and tell you all just about the cream on top of the Cake. And please continue with the brickbats.
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Old 17th January 2009, 23:49   #114
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Originally Posted by muneemmk View Post
what did you actually mean by this ?
I guess what Bombat said is if only other car companies were just as bad, it would make Fiat look less bad.
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Old 18th January 2009, 00:06   #115
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Originally Posted by tadukuttan View Post
If any employer knowingly neglects ethics, and forces employees to resort to illegal and unethical practices, they surely deserve blame! Not sure why you think otherwise?
Do you mean Muneem was employed by Fiat and not by the dealer? I didn't know that.
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Old 18th January 2009, 15:16   #116
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Originally Posted by Red Liner View Post
Its all a question of how well the company or dealership is run from the top. .... If the CEo of the dealership is a guy who has a dont care attitude I just want money ...
How true.

Good management = good handling of employees = good employees = good service for customer.

In the past, the manufacturers had to face immense pressure in selecting dealerships. There was simply too much political interference, and failure to give a dealership to the guy selected by the neta meant that the manufacturing / expansion license would not see daylight.

But times have changed, and I am sure that the manufacturers have full freedom in choosing dealers. With full freedom in choosing and maintaining dealerships, if the dealership is bad, the blame lies squarely at the manufacturer's doors.

The manufacturers have to remember that the dealership is, like every other person, doing the job to make money. Alongside the obligation to customers, the mfr. has the obligation to ensure decent profits for the dealerships.

I guess this particularly true of manufacturers with low volumes - like Fiat. Just consider the costs a dealer is saddled with if he has to carry 5 or 6 TD cars. Just look at the variants he has to stock for TD - Indica, Indigo Fiat - in both petrol and diesel engines. This translates to at least six cars in all not counting the different version of each car - like 1.2L and 1.4 L petrols, NA, TDi and MJD diesels - means total 5 engine variants; plus one vehicle at least of Sumo and Safari. That is a cool 40 Lakh or more investment in TD cars alone.

And even Maruti dealerships which sell hundreds of cars a week do not maintain that kind of TD vehicle inventory.

It is time for manufacturer to step in and set things right on the TD vehicle availbility issue.

Regarding the service quality, I have not visited RF, but guess from this post, and others' experiences that the management was banking on the kind of mechanics who come to work for free - in return for a "i've worked at an authorised dealership" tag to run the show.

Else, there is no other explanation for the dramatic turn around in their performance.
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Old 18th January 2009, 15:58   #117
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I dont believe some of you are actually pointing fingers at muneemmk, what do you expect him to do, tell the customer the car is a lemon, dont buy it.
We're all doing our jobs, so was he, it's the customers job as well to use his brain.
The guy needs to earn a living, he can't go tell his seniors:
Sir, i didn't sell the car, customer ko lemon kaise de sakta hu?
@muneemmk, thank you for sharing your honest experiences.
@many others- thank you for supporting him.
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Old 18th January 2009, 16:08   #118
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I appreciate muneemmk for giving us a peek into what happens in a dealership. He has been quick frank in giving us the neutral view, including his own part, which he had to play as he was an employee and had no option. He could very well have given a nice picture about his actions, but had given the true situation.

Thanks a lot muneemmk for your post. Atleast now i appreciate the importance of making sure i take delivery during broad daylight and spend enough time to go around the car inspecting it, even if the dealer gives me a funny look.
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Old 18th January 2009, 17:49   #119
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Originally Posted by muneemmk View Post
what did you actually mean by this ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by tadukuttan View Post
I guess what Bombat said is if only other car companies were just as bad, it would make Fiat look less bad.
@Tadukuttan and Muneem, what I meant was other companies/dealerships are more or less equally bad. We will come to know about it only if some other sales guys working at these dealers come out and tell the inside stories.

A Hyundai dealer in Kerala sold a Santro involved in accident as a brand new car to one unsuspecting customer. Now, how good is this dealer than RF Motors?

How many times Honda/Ford/GM/Maruti has directly responded to customer complaints against their dealers and acted on it?

Thank you Muneem for sharing your experience. I hope some more guys working in these dealerships come out and share their experience and help educate customers on how to deal with these dealers .
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Old 18th January 2009, 21:37   #120
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Originally Posted by BomBatt View Post
A Hyundai dealer in Kerala sold a Santro involved in accident as a brand new car to one unsuspecting customer. Now, how good is this dealer than RF Motors?

How many times Honda/Ford/GM/Maruti has directly responded to customer complaints against their dealers and acted on it?
Have you ever seen anybody comment on those threads that Fiat also does it, so it does not matter etc? Probably the Fiat owners are being too defensive about Fiat without realizing it?

Of course, as somebody else way saying, I would not buy one because I don't think I am yet in the mood to be a second class customer at a Tata showroom. And of course, I don't want to get a full time job of "explaining" why Fiat is good, on the forum and off it...

And apologies for going off topic, out of here.
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