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Old 14th June 2011, 18:49   #91
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Default Re: Dealership Charged Extra...Need advice on what to do

1700 rupees is a very small amount when compared to a car.

BUT still it is something wrong. I feel when you go there next time have a word with the top manager there and tell them to pay you cash, if they disagree then tell them they can keep it as a small token - BUT also tell him that you would not be going to get your car serviced from there - even the free services / and paid ones later on. This will hit them where it hurts most as major money is made not from sale of cars BUT service shop.

No point in sending them a notice as it is going to cost you more.
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Old 14th June 2011, 18:52   #92
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Default Re: Dealership Charged Extra...Need advice on what to do

The price was reduced on the delivery date, right? The reg. cost is paid to the RTO on the ex-showroom price and since that price was higher when you booked your vehicle, the surplus money is with RTO. If the dealer decides to pass on the benefit to you, he would be paying from his pocket.

What I don't understand is - why are you worried about the 1700 diff. in reg. cost. What about the 23k diff. in ex-showroom price. Have you got that discount? If yes, then chuck the 1700. If no, then you should try getting that from the dealer.

The SA has not given you any written assurance of refunding the 1700, right? IMO, you should drop a FYI kinda mail to Maruti and the dealership email. Don't get into legal hassles for 1700.

Do let us know if you've got the 23k benefit. That is a case worth fighting.
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Old 14th June 2011, 18:58   #93
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Default Re: Dealership Charged Extra...Need advice on what to do

How was the price reduced on delivery ? Did maruti reduce the price of VDi ? Could you explain more on the price reduction ?
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Old 14th June 2011, 18:59   #94
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Default Re: Dealership Charged Extra...Need advice on what to do

what does the registration charge mean? is it the road tax?

Road tax on a particular model is fixed in any given state AFAIK - it doesn't get effected no matter what discounts and other thing happen. I took quotations for my Figo from two dealerships, and while the prices quoted were slightly different, the road tax was exactly same (to the last rupee). I think these are set directly by RTO people based on inputs from manufacturers - if for example a dealer "sells" a car to his brother-in-law (his wife forces him to) for free (i.e. 100% discount) the brother-in-law will still end up paying the full road tax.



Other charges are not so much (should not be so much) that you end up with a difference of Rs. 1700/- by a roughly 5% change in overall price.


EDIT:


My mistake:

if the price was reduced by Maruti (looks like the case for you) then the road tax would have been reduced too.

Just go there and sit with them and sort it out - more likely than not even if they can not pay back the money they'll give you something (discount on accessories, service ...)

Last edited by vina : 14th June 2011 at 19:01.
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Old 14th June 2011, 19:05   #95
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Smile Re: Dealership Charged Extra...Need advice on what to do

I think options a and b are the appropriate ones. Can understand thats its not about money but about the attitude and communication skills of the new dealership. You need to bring it to the notice of right people if the dealer is making a mistake. If the dealer realizes that he is indeed rubbing the wrong edges he will definitley refund you the amount you deserved.
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Old 14th June 2011, 19:07   #96
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Default Re: Dealership Charged Extra...Need advice on what to do

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Originally Posted by libranof1987 View Post
The price was reduced on the delivery date, right? The reg. cost is paid to the RTO on the ex-showroom price and since that price was higher when you booked your vehicle, the surplus money is with RTO. If the dealer decides to pass on the benefit to you, he would be paying from his pocket.

What I don't understand is - why are you worried about the 1700 diff. in reg. cost. What about the 23k diff. in ex-showroom price. Have you got that discount? If yes, then chuck the 1700. If no, then you should try getting that from the dealer.

The SA has not given you any written assurance of refunding the 1700, right? IMO, you should drop a FYI kinda mail to Maruti and the dealership email. Don't get into legal hassles for 1700.

Do let us know if you've got the 23k benefit. That is a case worth fighting.

I don't think the money is with the RTO - the dealership wouldn't pay the RTO a penny till they get the money themselves. And the day he gave the cash to the dealership, price had been reduced already. RTO is not in the habit of overcharging usually (they charge based on model) - of course if they somehow got the money then getting it back from them is probably not worth the trouble.

That said, 1700 is not enough for legal hassles and in this case probably not even worth complaining to Maruti (unless the dealer's behaviour merits it) and runing your relationship with the dealer.


It is not clear whether our man has done the most basic thing - go to the dealership with some time on hands and all documents and discuss with somebody who has the authority and intelligence (usually some senior manager)

I think this is a trivial matter that has been complicated only because he delayed it. The dealer will understand the situation and even if he can not return the cash he should be able to accommodate in some other way.


In my opinion:

(e) first, then (b) but in person, not only email.

then (a) and then the other two if you have the stomach for a fight over Rs. 1700

Last edited by vina : 14th June 2011 at 19:08.
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Old 14th June 2011, 19:14   #97
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Default Re: Dealership Charged Extra...Need advice on what to do

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Originally Posted by vina View Post
I don't think the money is with the RTO - the dealership wouldn't pay the RTO a penny till they get the money themselves. And the day he gave the cash to the dealership, price had been reduced already. RTO is not in the habit of overcharging usually (they charge based on model) - of course if they somehow got the money then getting it back from them is probably not worth the trouble.
When the car was booked in his name, the ex-showrooom price was higher => the reg. costs were higher. That money is paid to RTO; or rather, that is the money to be paid to the RTO. Now the price reduction comes along. How does RTO care? They have already done the reg.

That is why I said, the money belongs to RTO; because from their perspective, the car has already been booked at the price prevailing on the booking date.

Let's wait to find out if he got the 23k diff. in ex-showroom.
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Old 14th June 2011, 19:16   #98
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Default Re: Dealership Charged Extra...Need advice on what to do

What Sumit has said is correct. The road tax is always calculated on the ex-showroom price and not on the discounted price. If I understand your situation correctly then the rate was reduced because of the loyalty bonus. This price reduction is from the Martui's side which has been offered by the dealer. Maruti has not reduced the price of the car. They have just offered you a discount for your loyalty. The RTO will not take this discount into consideration. They will charge you road tax based on the ex-showroom price itself.

@Vina - The road tax is fixed, but it is a percentage value and not a fixed amount.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sumitkalindi View Post
Rajat as per my knowledge, the road tax & registration is calculated on the ex showroom price of the car, not the amount the dealer charges you. So, even if the dealer gives you the car free, you need to pay the taxes calculated on the ex-showroom price.
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Old 14th June 2011, 19:18   #99
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Default Re: Dealership Charged Extra...Need advice on what to do

Quote:
Originally Posted by libranof1987 View Post
When the car was booked in his name, the ex-showrooom price was higher => the reg. costs were higher. That money is paid to RTO; or rather, that is the money to be paid to the RTO. Now the price reduction comes along. How does RTO care? They have already done the reg.

That is why I said, the money belongs to RTO; because from their perspective, the car has already been booked at the price prevailing on the booking date.

Let's wait to find out if he got the 23k diff. in ex-showroom.

Do the dealers pay the RTO at the time of the booking? I thought the payment to RTO is done at the time of temporary registration i.e. after (or right at the time of) delivery.

Otherwise wouldn't the dealer raise a huge hue and cry if you try cancelling the booking for a car? and why would any Maruti dealership book a Swift or Ritz for Rs. 5000/- (going booking amount in Hyderabad) - the road tax is 10 times that much?
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Old 14th June 2011, 19:50   #100
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Default Re: Dealership Charged Extra...Need advice on what to do

Quote:
Originally Posted by libranof1987 View Post
The price was reduced on the delivery date, right? The reg. cost is paid to the RTO on the ex-showroom price and since that price was higher when you booked your vehicle, the surplus money is with RTO. If the dealer decides to pass on the benefit to you, he would be paying from his pocket.

What I don't understand is - why are you worried about the 1700 diff. in reg. cost. What about the 23k diff. in ex-showroom price. Have you got that discount? If yes, then chuck the 1700. If no, then you should try getting that from the dealer.

The SA has not given you any written assurance of refunding the 1700, right? IMO, you should drop a FYI kinda mail to Maruti and the dealership email. Don't get into legal hassles for 1700.

Do let us know if you've got the 23k benefit. That is a case worth fighting.
Registration is done once the vehicle's dues are paid, i.e, its done on the invoice value of the car. My point is that I paid them Rs.1700 extra for nothing. If I use this logic then on jumping a red light I should pay 200\- as bribe instead of paying Rs. 1000\- as the legitimate fine

Quote:
Originally Posted by F150 View Post
How was the price reduced on delivery ? Did maruti reduce the price of VDi ? Could you explain more on the price reduction ?
For one month Maruti floated a Rs. 20000 discount on SX4 Diesel as loyality bonus provided you have another Maruti vehicle in your immediate family, my dad owns a Wagon R so used that for the discount.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ghodlur View Post
I think options a and b are the appropriate ones. Can understand thats its not about money but about the attitude and communication skills of the new dealership. You need to bring it to the notice of right people if the dealer is making a mistake. If the dealer realizes that he is indeed rubbing the wrong edges he will definitley refund you the amount you deserved.
Its not at all about the money, at almost Rs. 8.5 Lakh onroad this amount is just 0.2%, but its about paying for what,
I will highlight this in Maruti and threaten the dealer with exposing its name here on Tbhp, I think this should do the trick

Quote:
Originally Posted by vina View Post
Do the dealers pay the RTO at the time of the booking? I thought the payment to RTO is done at the time of temporary registration i.e. after (or right at the time of) delivery.

Otherwise wouldn't the dealer raise a huge hue and cry if you try cancelling the booking for a car? and why would any Maruti dealership book a Swift or Ritz for Rs. 5000/- (going booking amount in Hyderabad) - the road tax is 10 times that much?
Road tax is paid only when you invoice your car with the chassis and the engine number. If the dealer is charging registration at the quote value (at the time of booking) and later reducing the ex-showroom due to discounts etc. then this would be incorrect. This is one reason why the cars run on temp/AF number plate for 10-15 days from the date of purchase

Even if I do not get the money back I will make sure to make the life of the dealer (read general manager) a bit of hell
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Old 14th June 2011, 19:53   #101
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Default Re: Dealership Charged Extra...Need advice on what to do

This is one of the "hidden" problems faced by all Customers and I have come across this as well.
The unscrupulous dealer under invoices the car at the time of registration and pockets the difference amount on the invoice as well as the road tax paid however small or big it is.
In my experience the dealer agreed to this fraud but only agreed to give "accessories" for the extra amount that was charged.
Though the accessories are overpriced, it was at least "some thing better than nothing" logic and finally settled.
I am not sure whether the Car company is aware of this fraud, but surely the sales tax officials are well "covered".
For what ever it is worth you should consider informing Maruti HO at New Delhi and Gurgaon about your experience.
For all T-BHP members and readers the lesson learnt here is "Please ask for the actual invoice of another customer for the same model, BEFORE paying up for your car and reconfirm all the costs and numbers BY YOURSELF.
This way you can detect this fraud at the beginning and deal with it appropriately.

Last edited by Jidousha : 14th June 2011 at 19:55.
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Old 14th June 2011, 20:01   #102
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Default Re: Dealership Charged Extra...Need advice on what to do

I will ensure that this is escalated in Maruti to the highest possible escalation chain,

No one checks the details (only some people like me) and are getting fleeced on a large scale basis everyday, this case is also eligible for fraud in a consumer court since I have proofs that on the bill the road tax + registration amount is different to what I have in the form of RTO receipts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jidousha View Post
This is one of the "hidden" problems faced by all Customers and I have come across this as well.
The unscrupulous dealer under invoices the car at the time of registration and pockets the difference amount on the invoice as well as the road tax paid however small or big it is.
In my experience the dealer agreed to this fraud but only agreed to give "accessories" for the extra amount that was charged.
Though the accessories are overpriced, it was at least "some thing better than nothing" logic and finally settled.
I am not sure whether the Car company is aware of this fraud, but surely the sales tax officials are well "covered".
For what ever it is worth you should consider informing Maruti HO at New Delhi and Gurgaon about your experience.
For all T-BHP members and readers the lesson learnt here is "Please ask for the actual invoice of another customer for the same model, BEFORE paying up for your car and reconfirm all the costs and numbers BY YOURSELF.
This way you can detect this fraud at the beginning and deal with it appropriately.
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Old 14th June 2011, 20:09   #103
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Default Re: Dealership Charged Extra...Need advice on what to do

Quote:
Originally Posted by rajatsingh78 View Post
...

Road tax is paid only when you invoice your car with the chassis and the engine number.
That's what I thought too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rajatsingh78 View Post
If the dealer is charging registration at the quote value (at the time of booking) and later reducing the ex-showroom due to discounts etc. then this would be incorrect. This is one reason why the cars run on temp/AF number plate for 10-15 days from the date of purchase
I think the state RTOs don't care how much you paid for the car - I may be wrong but as I wrote earlier in case of Ford as well as Maruti dealerships in Hyderabad when I went around shopping they did quote different prices but the same road-tax (down to one rupee) for same models.

The reason for temporary number plates (with the temporary registration number) is simply that vehicle registration may take time due to various reasons (e.g. you want a number of your choice, in Hyderabad there is a mandatory 7 day waiting period between temp and permanent registration ...) - I don't think RTO cares how much you are paying for the car to the dealer.


Quote:
Originally Posted by rajatsingh78 View Post


Even if I do not get the money back I will make sure to make the life of the dealer (read general manager) a bit of hell

I don't know what you gain with this, and why are you thinking this way when you agree that you haven't even sat with this guy even once to discuss everything.

as far as I can guess you should be able to resolve this pretty peacefully.

You'll end up wasting time and messing up your emotional state (as a result for example shouting a little harder on your kids/spouse/employees than you would otherwise).
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Old 14th June 2011, 20:51   #104
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Default Re: Dealership Charged Extra...Need advice on what to do

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Originally Posted by rajatsingh78 View Post

For one month Maruti floated a Rs. 20000 discount on SX4 Diesel as loyality bonus provided you have another Maruti vehicle in your immediate family, my dad owns a Wagon R so used that for the discount.
I doubt if the loyalty bonus can be deducted from the ex-showroom price.
You will have to get the car registered at the ex-showroom price. Once the car is registered maruti will send a cheque of Rs 20,000 as loyalty bonus.
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Old 14th June 2011, 22:52   #105
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Default Re: Dealership Charged Extra...Need advice on what to do

RTO do check the invoice value of the car that is how they calculate the road tax, I know this pretty clearly because there is a sale certificate issued by the dealer which the RTO uses for tax calculation, moreover when I got my last car's number changed from UP16 to AP28 the RTO checked my invoice to calculate the road tax.

This is where the dealers make a killing by charging the same road tax even when the invoiced value has been lowered due to discounts, loyalty bonus etc.

The sales executive already had a chat with this general manager, and that is why I am so worked up on this, because he told him that this amount will not be refunded and the customer can escalate this to Maruti. This is where it hit me. I being his customer should have been listened to, instead of irresponsible response like above and dont worry, I do not shout on my spouse, children (no kids so far!) and employees due to external factors like these.

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Originally Posted by vina View Post
That's what I thought too.
I think the state RTOs don't care how much you paid for the car - I may be wrong but as I wrote earlier in case of Ford as well as Maruti dealerships in Hyderabad when I went around shopping they did quote different prices but the same road-tax (down to one rupee) for same models.

The reason for temporary number plates (with the temporary registration number) is simply that vehicle registration may take time due to various reasons (e.g. you want a number of your choice, in Hyderabad there is a mandatory 7 day waiting period between temp and permanent registration ...) - I don't think RTO cares how much you are paying for the car to the dealer.

I don't know what you gain with this, and why are you thinking this way when you agree that you haven't even sat with this guy even once to discuss everything.
as far as I can guess you should be able to resolve this pretty peacefully.

You'll end up wasting time and messing up your emotional state (as a result for example shouting a little harder on your kids/spouse/employees than you would otherwise).
Loyalty bonus is deducted from the ex-showroom in this case because this was something not too publicized by Maruti, I confirmed this by chatting on SX4 website where the executive asked me to contact the dealer and didn't confirm the deal on chat

Quote:
Originally Posted by F150 View Post
I doubt if the loyalty bonus can be deducted from the ex-showroom price.
You will have to get the car registered at the ex-showroom price. Once the car is registered maruti will send a cheque of Rs 20,000 as loyalty bonus.
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