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Old 6th September 2009, 15:48   #31
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Really sorry to hear about your experience! :(

Maybe CORE can help! They are known to be quite effective!
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Old 6th September 2009, 16:04   #32
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@manveet: My cousin also had a similar experience to you. He had given his Civic for service at Courtesy and was shocked to find that the driver side rear door had a deep gash which had been very shabbily touched up. He was lucky he caught it there itself but still had to fight tooth and nail to get the dealer to repair the damage (although not to his satisfaction). Keep the heat on them man and I am sure they will relent (hopefully Honda customer service will be a help).

OT: I have seen your accord at Centrum Plaza, Sector -53 in Gurgaon a few times. My office is in the same building as well. Thought of saying hello but you were off before I could reach you. I also spotted your accord outside your house all covered up. Hope the covers will be off soon and it will be back to its full glory.

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Old 6th September 2009, 16:35   #33
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Dear Manveet,

I have gone through the whole thread and am sure that the Coutersy guys have goofed up badly. In first place they shouldnt have replaced the O2 sensor at all if it wasnt in stock. They have used an incompatible sensor, may be some old stock they wanted to discard which has resulted in this problem.

Now comes the real problem, please do not get anything done outside of the service centre in this case because they will pick this up as a problem and will back off from sorting this issue out. Dont get worried of fights and all, just tell them that they have committed a mistake and they ought to get it repaired immediately.

Had you not signed a repair order when they took the car in for the replacement of the sensor. There it should have been mentioned there if the car had any problem before when it came into the service cnetre in first place.

This incident has to be reported as an repeat job at the dealer's end if there is a problem after the work is done. Just because you have taken the gate pass doesnt mean you are satisfied with the job, mostly all dealers follow up on the fourth day from the delivery of the car to check if everything is working fine.

Alternatively you could get an second opinion from some other service centre on this issue and use it as a back up if needed.

All the best.

Mansi
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Old 6th September 2009, 16:59   #34
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Quote:
I am sorry for being the bearer of bad news, but legally, they have a upper hand.

I am assuming you signed some paperwork before you took the delivery, where you basically signed confirming that you have recieved the car in perfect working order.

However, you can write to Honda and hope for a quick and hopefully economical solution..
Usually when they take a car into the service area they give you a slip mentioning the things that are not working or damaged (everything from torn seat covers, scratch marks, electrical issues, dents etc are covered).

Now if the car had already come with a faulty display, its their duty to mention this in the slip and bring it to the owners notice. So if this hasn't been mentioned in the slip, then how can it not have been working when the car was brought in? And if it wasn't working, how could they have missed out on such a serious problem?

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Old 6th September 2009, 17:57   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sohail99 View Post
Maybe CORE can help! They are known to be quite effective!
Thanks for the link Sohail. I have been a loyal Honda customer for over 2 decades, so wanted to give them the benefit of some time to respond. But yes, this website is an option I will explore once Honda doesn't respond to the milder requests.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nkapoor777 View Post
OT: I have seen your accord at Centrum Plaza, Sector -53 in Gurgaon a few times. My office is in the same building as well. Thought of saying hello but you were off before I could reach you. I also spotted your accord outside your house all covered up. Hope the covers will be off soon and it will be back to its full glory.
Hey Nitin, I've been to Centrum Plaza only twice - Once in the OHC and once in the Accord. Dad took the Accord there once as well so I think it's been there twice in total! Good observation nonetheless !! One of my Clients, Avantha Power, has an office there. Where do you work, btw?

The Accord has always been covered up through the day because our office is walking distance from home - nothing to do with the present state of affairs . We should catch up sometime since you're put up in the neighborhood.

Quote:
Originally Posted by manaa45 View Post
I have gone through the whole thread and am sure that the Coutersy guys have goofed up badly. In first place they shouldnt have replaced the O2 sensor at all if it wasnt in stock. They have used an incompatible sensor, may be some old stock they wanted to discard which has resulted in this problem.
And since you bring this up, they had confirmed to me the previous Sunday that "Sir, we do not have the part and in stock and are ordering it just for you". And when I called them on Wednesday to confirm, they said that the part had arrived and they would keep it booked against my car no. and I was most welcome to get my car the coming Sunday, which is when I took the car to them. - and they put in the '03 Accord O2 sensor.!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by manaa45
Now comes the real problem, please do not get anything done outside of the service centre in this case because they will pick this up as a problem and will back off from sorting this issue out. Dont get worried of fights and all, just tell them that they have committed a mistake and they ought to get it repaired immediately.
I appreciate your point. As it was impossible to drive the car without the display so I had to get that problem sorted externally - which has been done by tampering with the stereo. But these guys majorly damaged the stereo anyways - proper solution is to replace the main board, or the stereo in it's entirety - which they can still do.

The other problem, of lights in the buttons not working (due to damage in some other circuit) - has been, and will be left untouched until Honda takes this to a logical conclusion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by manaa45
Had you not signed a repair order when they took the car in for the replacement of the sensor. There it should have been mentioned there if the car had any problem before when it came into the service cnetre in first place.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shan2nu View Post
Usually when they take a car into the service area they give you a slip mentioning the things that are not working or damaged (everything from torn seat covers, scratch marks, electrical issues, dents etc are covered).

Now if the car had already come with a faulty display, its their duty to mention this in the slip and bring it to the owners notice. So if this hasn't been mentioned in the slip, then how can it not have been working when the car was brought in? And if it wasn't working, how could they have missed out on such a serious
I understand, but the Service Engineer tried to put the onus on me, saying that I should have reported the problem. I'm like - "don't be silly, there WAS no problem to report in the first place!".

He refuses to accept that it was HIS responsibility to ensure that everything was working fine before taking the car in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by manaa45
This incident has to be reported as an repeat job at the dealer's end if there is a problem after the work is done. Just because you have taken the gate pass doesnt mean you are satisfied with the job, mostly all dealers follow up on the fourth day from the delivery of the car to check if everything is working fine.
Absolutely. But Courtesy Honda even refused to mention my comments in the column MEANT for the "Customer Comments" when we were discussing about creating a new SR. Later, they even went to the extent to refusing me to create an SR AT ALL.!!

Last edited by manveet : 6th September 2009 at 18:05.
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Old 6th September 2009, 18:12   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manveet View Post
I understand, but the Service Engineer tried to put the onus on me, saying that I should have reported the problem. I'm like - "don't be silly, there WAS no problem to report in the first place!".

He refuses to accept that it was HIS responsibility to ensure that everything was working fine before taking the car in.

Absolutely. But Courtesy Honda even refused to mention my comments in the column MEANT for the "Customer Comments" when we were discussing about creating a new SR. Later, they even went to the extent to refusing me to create an SR AT ALL.!!
Its precisely these actions which suggests that the issue might be bigger or costlier. You got to be ready with all dox or whatever proof you have. The slip/ document what Shantanu suggested is a big proof if you've one.

Sterio lights getting it done from outside may go against you & they WILL try to use that against you. Guaranteed.
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Old 7th September 2009, 12:36   #37
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Dear Manveet

From all you have said, they will surely have these kind of tactics up their sleeve to shirk off their responsibility. But I think it is high time you contact the Honda guys, they are damn quick, I can say this from my own experience and they will ensure that this problem is sorted out.

Tell them that the Sensor was replaced inspite of it not being of this Accord. This is where the whole problem has started.

Mansi
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Old 7th September 2009, 17:06   #38
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Any luck with Honda getting back to you ?
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Old 7th September 2009, 18:42   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IndrojitSircar View Post
Any luck with Honda getting back to you ?
Honda hasn't responded as yet, but Courtesy Honda is monitoring this thread. Will share a few more details on that by late evening perhaps.

Hope the people at Courtesy can be courteous and resolve this amicably. We've had Honda's in our family ever since we returned to India in '89, would hate to have the relationship end like this.


Offtopic:

The power of forums and communities such as these is commendable. As an aside, the short thread below may be of some interest - it's about how T-Bhp helped me with my issue with Lenovo. Refer post #20.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/gadget...aced-free.html (My Lenovo Lemon. Edit: Now Replaced Free)
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Old 20th September 2009, 20:29   #40
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Things have gone as predicted, so it's about time I updated this thread.

About a fortnight ago, I recieved a call from a lady, saying that she was the Customer Service Manager/Executive at Courtesy Honda, and that the GM - Service had read this thread on Team-BHP. Therafter, he had a personal discussion with their AM - Service, as well as the Service Engineer, and that they would like me to come over to their Centre and show them the car.

Courtesy Honda claims:
  1. Although the Part No. of the O2 sensor that they have installed on my Accord is different from the Part No. recommended by Honda for this particular model, Courtesy Honda is not at fault, their are no problems that can occur due to the difference in Part No. as this is also a Honda recommended part. They say they are ready to give a written statement to this affect.
  2. The AM - Service (Mr. Sanjay) tried his best to support me, but as the Service Centre was crowded and Sanjay was pressed for time, they agree that they MAY have not been able to respond to me suitably.
  3. That as per discussions and inputs from their Service Engineer (Mr. Ranveer), I was not engaging appropriately, over-reacted and became "hyper", and therefore started shooting a video, because of which they (Sanjay, Ranveer and other staff) became scared.
  4. That anyways, it was already 6:00pm so they had to ask me to leave and return the next day.
To the Credit of Courtesy Honda, their Customer Service Executive did call me a couple of times and insisted that I bring the car down to their Service Centre on any convenient day. But, when I requested to speak to their GM Service (a Mr. Worrell), I was informed that he was currently out of the country.

However, they continued to maintain that
  • the O2 sensor replacement had nothing to do with the display and ambient lighting failure that took place in the premises of their Service Centre
  • that I shouldn't have got the display fixed from elsewhere
  • and that they were going to "check" the car and only then tell me the corrective course of action that they could/would take. At the same time, any possibility of replacement was absolutely ruled out.
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Old 20th September 2009, 20:48   #41
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Default Photograph of the Damage done at Courtesy Honda

  1. The Black Arrow shows how the screen has lost the display. Only upon staring REAL hard was it able to notice the alphabets. Basically, without this display it becomes impossible to control the AC temp., Vents, etc. so it was imperative to repair ASAP, which I have got done outside of Honda - as there was no other option.
  2. The Red Arrows show how all Buttons have lost the ambient light. As a result of this, the dashboard is pitch black (only a few LED's work, as can be seen). So if one is driving at night and feels the need to change the AC temp., stereo channel, etc., first the overhead cabin light needs to switched ON before anything can be done. This defect still persists.
From what I have come to understand, extra current/power was drawn all of a sudden due to which a few circuits have blown, reasons for this can only be one of the following:
  • The O2 Sensor, which belongs to the previous generation Accord
  • The Laptop connected by Courtesy Honda to run a HiScan, drew a sudden surge of power which the circuits could not handle
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Old 20th September 2009, 21:24   #42
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Our Accord had the exact same problem a couple of years ago. I do not recall the cause but the 'bulb' apparently had blown and it took a week or so to source the part by Honda chandigarh and fix it. Sorry to hear how Honda Delhi handled it, but luckily Honda showroom here in chandigarh has genuinely good people.
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Old 20th September 2009, 21:52   #43
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Default My Response to their Ludicrous Statements

Quote:
Originally Posted by manveet
Courtesy Honda claims:
  1. Although the Part No. of the O2 sensor that they have installed on my Accord is different from the Part No. recommended by Honda for this particular model, Courtesy Honda is not at fault, their are no problems that can occur due to the difference in Part No. as this is also a Honda recommended part. They say they are ready to give a written statement to this affect.
Firstly:
WHY was an O2 sensor installed that has a different Part No. than that which is recommended by Honda for this particular model. It shows total disregard by an Authorized Service Center towards Quality, System and Process guidelines laid by the Honda Car Co.

Secondly:
If the Part would have been same, it would have had the same Part No. Period. By claiming that there is "absolutely no difference" in the two parts, the representatives of Courtesy Honda are implying that the Honda Car Co. is either ignorant, or foolish, and so has given the same part, two different part nos., thereby creating unnecessary inventory overheads for themselves.

Thirdly:
I don't believe Courtesy Honda's claim that they can provide me in writing that installing a previous generation O2 sensor on a later generation engine, has absolutely no complications whatsoever. As far as is evident, they tried it, I had a problem, and they are shirking away from taking responsibility.

Quote:
Originally Posted by manveet
The AM - Service (Mr. Sanjay) tried his best to support me, but as the Service Centre was crowded and Sanjay was pressed for time, they agree that they MAY have not been able to respond to me suitably.
..
That as per discussions and inputs from their Service Engineer (Mr. Ranveer), I was not engaging appropriately, over-reacted and became "hyper", and therefore started shooting a video, because of which they (Sanjay, Ranveer and other staff) became scared.
The Service Center was NOT crowded at all. Most of the people had left, the only people there were 2-3 couples, who were in fact very curious and shocked by the way the events were unfolding in front of their eyes.

The fact of the matter is that the AM - Service, tried implementing a very well thought out strategy of "intimidating" the customer.
  • First he blatantly told me that "Sir, you already TOOK the delivery and went away, and are now coming back to us with this NEW problem"

  • I then very politely told him that "You're not making sense at all as the Service Engineer is right here next to me and I haven't even budged an inch, so what if I have signed the Gate-Pass. Please don not get on the defensive and spoil the mood, for all you know this is simply a blown fuse or a loose connection."
  • To my utter shock, he then bangs the display screen and the dashboard with his palm (like one used to do with radio's and TV's in the 80's) and says - "Sir, if this was a loose connection it would have flickered when I banged it like this".
  • He then sends the car down to the basement (without issuing a gate-pass or any service request!!!), gets a few checks done and returns the car to me saying, "Sorry Sir, we can't do anything about this as we haven't done anything to cause this. The O2 sensor is independent of anything to do with the display/stereo/lighting".

  • I politely respond by saying - "Please do not get on the defensive, it is obvious that you would not do this deliberately and neither will I try to blame an existing problem on you, so let us try to together solve this in a mature manner."

  • By this time we were surrounded by 3-4 Service Engineers as almost every customer had left and there were only 2-3 couples waiting to collect their car. This is when the AM - Service, Sanjay gets a Digital Camera from, enters my car and starts clicking photographs!! I was shocked, I am wondering why the hell is HE taking pictures of my car! Anyways, he takes at least 15 pictures, then 3-4 service engineers gather around him looking and smiling at the photographs. I am confused with the turn of events, so also take 2-3 pictures just to be on the safe side.
  • I tell the AM - Service that I am disappointed by his actions and will most likely write about it to a few newpapers/car-magazines. To my utter disbelief - he points to some Honda City parked next to it and tells me some story about how the owner knew Shiela Dixit and wanted something to be replaced FOC, but he as a Honda employee couldn't care less and told the owner of the car the same. Frankly, I was too stunned to remember the finer details of his story.
  • Then suddenly, this dude sits in a car and starts the engine. When I ask him where is he going without solving the issue - he tells me he has a meeting to attend and simply drives off!!!
  • The staff at the Service Centre then just merge into the background and start ignoring me. This is when one of the Customers waiting for his car, and witness to the whole event, advised me to make a Video. As a last resort, this is what I did and viola, the AM - Service was back in office within 2 minutes. The Service Engineer starts to make my Service Request and they share the name of the GM - Service which they were refusing to do so earlier.
  • Then the AM Service, Sanjay - tells me on my face - that he will take legal action against me for shooting a video inside Courtesy Honda premises as this was against Supreme Court ruling!! He then pulls out his cell, dials a no. and starts talking (or pretending to talk) to a lawyer about taking action against me for making a video. I am like, ***!! Is this really happening?
  • He tells me to go away, they cannot make my SR as it is already 6:30 PM and I should return in the morning.
A couple of pictures to prove my point.
Attached Thumbnails
Unbelievably Disgusting Incident at Courtesy Honda, Okhla - I need your Support !-imag0194-copy.jpg  

Unbelievably Disgusting Incident at Courtesy Honda, Okhla - I need your Support !-imag0191-copy-2.jpg  

Unbelievably Disgusting Incident at Courtesy Honda, Okhla - I need your Support !-imag0192-copy.jpg  


Last edited by manveet : 20th September 2009 at 21:53.
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Old 20th September 2009, 22:19   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manveet
However, they continued to maintain that
  • the O2 sensor replacement had nothing to do with the display and ambient lighting failure that took place in the premises of their Service Centre
  • that I shouldn't have got the display fixed from elsewhere
  • and that they were going to "check" the car and only then tell me the corrective course of action that they could/would take. At the same time, any possibility of replacement was absolutely ruled out.
If a customer can own a Honda Accord, spend 15k on O2 sensor replacement knowing that it is available for 4k outside, and obviously have the money and the resources to get the problem fixed from outside - what are they trying to achieve by asking the customer to come visit them so that they can "judge the problem for themselves" and then decide on the course of action!!

As a working professional, time spent away from work getting the problem resolved (if at all!!) is equivalent to monetary loss, not to mention the pointless discussions about how Courtesy Honda had nothing to do with the problem. If one can easily spend far less money and get the problem fixed, why should he go and meet them just to "clear out misunderstandings"?.

From my perspective, I enter into an engagement with a clear objective and try to achieve it - not for "discussions"; that too with a Customer Service Executives because the GM is too busy to make himself available. When asked about the GM, their story conveniently changed from the staff's "personal across-the-table" discussion with the GM to a telephonic chat when he saw this thread from abroad.

I have not taken my car to Honda as yet, and doubt that I ever will. The Courtesy Honda people seem to have completely missed the point of this thread.

Plan of action is that I will follow up with Honda Company's customer care cell (they haven't responded as yet). Honda is a client of ours and so we know a few people in Honda management - Dad will most likely speak to them. As a loyal Honda customer for 20+ years he is darned pissed, and already looking for a new car for himself.

Let's see how things go, I intend to take this to a logical conclusion, though still not sure what it should be. Any suggestions?
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Old 20th September 2009, 22:35   #45
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1) You dont intend to take it to the customer court?
2) Honda is supposedly a good Cust oriented company. Haven't they responded yet?
3) You dont even have the option of selling the car since the main display isnt working and its very obvious. just stay in here for the long haul. These A.$$ guys need to learn their lesson.
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