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Old 9th May 2010, 23:24   #16
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very shocking behaviour by Nanavati Toyota. We send our Innova there for servicing, Now we will be extra carefull while dealing with them.
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Old 10th May 2010, 08:24   #17
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IMO, instead of moving to court & police, try to strike a compromise with the dealer. I know it hurts when someone says this especially when they're affected. But thinking practically & overlooking the issue, just imagine the hurdles when it comes to court & trying to prove a forgery case on signature, wait several years trying to prove your innocence, paying the lawyer, running to court, keep waiting indefinitely with anxiety with a hope as when a positive judgment will be made. All the more, no one knows about the outcome of the case & there're several things that can happen against you or in favor of Navaniti. Is your friend having so much of free time to run behind the case? Is your friend interested with new Innova or closing down the dealership? After all, years of peaceful sleep cannot be compromised for any sum of money right?. Again, if nothing works out smooth or cannot be compromised, then moving to court makes sense. Good Luck & pls do keep us posted on the updates. Tks.
it is not just a incident of a bad product, its forgery, a criminal offense.
I was shocked to read this because it seems the dealers are so casual about this. Probably because no one files a complaint and have let go attitude. So IMO, a case should be filed against them.
Think about it,from your friends experience with the dealer already, it would be foolish to believe that they will agree for a compromise, and not to mention it will be worse if they have a monopoly. Atleast if the case is filed, maybe toyota India will take notice.
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Old 10th May 2010, 08:37   #18
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it is not just a incident of a bad product, its forgery, a criminal offense.
I never said its a bad product either & I know its criminal.

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Originally Posted by mxx View Post
Probably because no one files a complaint and have let go attitude. So IMO, a case should be filed against themThink about it,from your friends experience with the dealer already, it would be foolish to believe that they will agree for a compromise, and not to mention it will be worse if they have a monopoly. Atleast if the case is filed, maybe toyota India will take notice.
I never said NOT to file a case, all I was trying to point out few issues with respect to going towards a court case. If the same would've happened to me, I would try to bear minimal losses to avoid fighting & arguing; because to me, peace of mind is more important than money.

Anyway long story short, if someone is able to start a Toyota dealership, I'm very sure they will have strong power in every aspects, be it political or money & the change of color sounds very silly to me. My suggestion was to get things resolved quickly rather than prolonging. While I agree its good to file a FIR & proceed with courts so as to show how a proper business is to be done, but law takes its own sweet time & by then there're many things bound to happen in favour of both the concerned parties that could change the judgment or even the entire purpose as such.

Last edited by aargee : 10th May 2010 at 08:39.
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Old 10th May 2010, 09:37   #19
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Complaceny everywhere from Toyota to its dealers!!
I guess it will not be far when wary customers will wean away from such over confident brands and dealers!
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Old 10th May 2010, 09:39   #20
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1. There is no point in continuing with this dealer. Even if ur friend gets the car, the dealer will purposely mess with the car during delivery/servicing etc.
2. File a forgery and cheating case against the dealer. Signature forgery is criminal case afaik. It will ensure that others will not be cheated.

OT: Nice "chalta hai" attitude shown by argee - whatever the reason, end result is same (that is keep quite and get on with life).

Last edited by subscrive : 10th May 2010 at 09:41.
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Old 10th May 2010, 09:48   #21
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I think everyone is carried away by the entire post & fails to understand the big picture. Anyway, here's what I like to highlight from my post

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Originally Posted by aargee View Post
Again, if nothing works out smooth or cannot be compromised, then moving to court makes sense.
I'm tired of explaining, but would like to reiterate that jumping to court case immediately will only bring the points that I've mentioned earlier as it will touch the ego of the dealer. What I'm trying to say is, try all the possibilities to get what you want quickly & if nothing works out, go to court.

Last edited by aargee : 10th May 2010 at 09:49.
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Old 10th May 2010, 10:35   #22
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After reading all your helpful comments and advice, I would like to point out the following:

1) What's the point of trying to compromise with a dealer, who has gone to the extent of forging signatures and peddling lies since the beginning? With all due respect, I suppose consumers in India encounter such unethical business practices, just because most of us are pacifist in nature. Can you imagine a dealer in US doing something like this and getting away with this, with support of the principal company? Even if it means losing peace of mind and losing years trying to prove the matter, I personally believe it's worth the effort.

2) There is no question at all of my friend buying this car from Nanavati. In fact he is more shocked by Toyota's response, and has decided not to even buy a car which carries the Toyota badge. I was myself thinking in terms of buying Altis, but for whatever it's worth I will not buy a Toyota Car.

3) He first wrote to Toyota India HQ on 08th April, the only official response on email he got from them is on the o4th of May, that is after he had already written to Toyota Japan and when Toyota Japan had acknowledged his email and promised to ask Toyota India to review the case. So that everyone can see how Toyota India responded after almost a month, please see the attached file. It's almost as if they are saying this is not our baby, and the rogue dealer will decide how to respond to you.

4) Without any doubt the dealer can't just get away like this, unless they have the tacit support of officials of Toyota India. Which becomes all the more clear, since Toyota India is not willing to consider any documentary evidence, they have in fact told him that they are going by the 'Verbal' communication, which the dealer is falsely claiming took place. One simple question, all the documents are Nanavati's, the customer obviously has not created these at home, so why is Toyota not going by documentary evidence and instead relying on Verbal communication as passed on by the dealer?

The more I think about this matter, the more helpless I feel as a consumer in India, what is the point of 'Jago Grahak Jago' when all across India dealerships are screwing consumers in broad daylight?
Attached Files
File Type: doc Response from TKM Bangalore.doc (20.5 KB, 308 views)
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Old 10th May 2010, 10:44   #23
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The biggest problem is that the firms routinely just forward your complaint to the dealer to deal with it. The same is true of Honda. I wrote the the President & CEO about their Area Sales Manager lying and giving false assurances, it was was just 'woodenly' forwarded to the dealer, who shot back that this has nothing to do with him, but of their own executive. Zilch for a week after that!
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Old 10th May 2010, 12:02   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aargee View Post
I think everyone is carried away by the entire post & fails to understand the big picture. Anyway, here's what I like to highlight from my post
I got your point from your first post itself.And I am not trying to argue. Just putting my point across.

But sorry to say, you are the one missing the big picture.
Let me put across the big picture from my point of view.

Let us assume that I am in your friends place(God forbid). If I dont book a case against the dealer, maybe tomorrow the same thing is going to happen to you, or 10 other people, not just from same dealer. We all know the malpractices in car dealerships and service centers in India. If they think they can get away with it they will do it. Just complaining on the this forum wont help change the dealers attitude. And this case is extreme, its forgery. Atleast once they burn their hands they will think twice. Maybe the manufacturer will be a little bit more better in handling complaints against the dealers. Thats the big picture as I see it.
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Old 11th May 2010, 09:37   #25
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Hi Everyone,
From Toyota India's end two gentlemen have been interacting over the phone with my friend. One week Mr. Madhusudan (who introduces himself as Customer Relations Incharge - Western Region) will call my friend and discuss the issue and ask for further documents. Finally he would suggest that he would come back with his feedback, which meant bye bye.

Next week one Mr. Arun Kumar P would call up my friend (again introducing himself as Customer Relations Incharge - Western Region) and start the discussion all over again. Mr. Arun Kumar would normally play the part of good cop in comparison to Mr. Madhusudan who my friend feels is perfect in his roll of the bad cop.

My friend was called on Last Saturday by Mr. Arun Kumar, over the phone he was told that as per the verbal communication suggested by Nanavati Motors, they have concluded that what the dealership is saying is correct. When quizzed about the documents, he did not want to discuss and said that is an internal matter between Toyota and the dealership and Toyota will be taking some internal action. For the life of me, I can't understand, how can the documents issued by the dealership to the customer can be internal matter between the dealership and the principal company.

When Mr. Arun Kumar was asked to put this discussion on record and respond to my friend's email with this reply, funnily his response was 'I will first have to consult our legal department, before writing an email to you' , now I wonder what this means?

Can you guys give me your ideas?
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Old 11th May 2010, 17:49   #26
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When Sahil wrote about his Toyota Dealer forging his signatures, I was shocked. Reading your friend's experience made my lower jaw drop. An authorised dealer indulging in such malpractices is horrid enough, Toyota's sleepy response is even worse.

I'm sorry to hear of your friend's experience and hope that he finds satisfaction with another brand. Though, if he wants, he can bring that scum of a dealer down to his knees for forgery (Indian courts view it as a VERY serious offence). Note to Toyota : Correct these problems before they snowball. Skoda has suffered enough.
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Old 12th May 2010, 01:05   #27
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I own a Baleno and an Innova. In the past 5 years with the Baleno - I never had to call Maruti. Calling the dealer has always been sufficient.

I cant say the same for my Innova V - I am not happy with the service experience and writing to Toyota does not help.

I hope maruti someday makes a vehicle that people like me can upgrade to.

Last edited by Buffetfan : 12th May 2010 at 01:13.
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Old 12th May 2010, 19:46   #28
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What the heck is going on at Toyota? They are going from bad to worse. This really is downright pathetic.

I can understand why Toyota is FORMALLY siding with the dealer. If they formally state that the dealer forged signatures this goes to press. The consumer can then file criminal charges and Toyota gets all the ugly press coverage. This at a time when they are in knee deep garbage. The max the poor consumer can do is drag them to court. The verdict will hopefully come by the next solar eclipse in 2132 during which Toyota would have been alleged to have committed the offence. So they can go on denying that anything is amiss.

However what I don't understand is why can't they provide relief to the poor fellow INFORMALLY. Treat the guy with respect, give him his grey Innova ASAP, throw in freebies and a decent discount and all should be well. If the company can't do that when it so clear that they are at fault then something is seriously wrong with Toyota management.

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Hi Everyone,
From Toyota India's end two gentlemen have been interacting over the phone with my friend. Mr. Arun Kumar would normally play the part of good cop in comparison to Mr. Madhusudan who my friend feels is perfect in his roll of the bad cop.
Good cop, bad cop eh? I thought that was a tactic reserved for offenders. Here Toyota is trying that on a poor victim. Somebody sure is having a brain wave.

What the heck is going on at Toyota? They are going from bad to worse. This really is downright pathetic.

I can understand why Toyota is FORMALLY siding with the dealer. If they formally state that the dealer forged signatures this goes to press. The consumer can then file criminal charges and Toyota gets all the ugly press coverage. This at a time when they are in knee deep garbage. The max the poor consumer can do is drag them to court. The verdict will hopefully come by the next solar eclipse in 2132 during which Toyota would have been alleged to have committed the offence. So they can go on denying that anything is amiss. That is why IMO they will NEVER admit that the dealer forged signatures.

However what I don't understand is why can't they provide relief to the poor fellow INFORMALLY. Treat the guy with respect, give him his grey Innova ASAP, throw in freebies and a decent discount and all should be well. If the company can't do that when it so clear that they are at fault then something is seriously wrong with Toyota management.

Last edited by Dippy : 13th May 2010 at 09:27. Reason: Back to back posts. Please use the edit function if posting within 20 minutes of your earlier post.
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Old 13th May 2010, 10:37   #29
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Well, you summarized the complete issue beautifully. I believe most of what you have said is completely correct, Toyota knows that it ain't over till the fat lady sings, in this case till the right authorities sing, which might be sometime in the distant future.

By that time probably the concerned people at Toyota would have moved to greener pastures, and would be in the process of destroying the new greener pastures, the way they are destroying Toyota's name currently.

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Good cop, bad cop eh? I thought that was a tactic reserved for offenders. Here Toyota is trying that on a poor victim. Somebody sure is having a brain wave.

As far as Toyota is concerned my friend is the offender, ruining the beautiful relationship between the dealership and the concerned officials. Obviously they believe that my friend is being unreasonable, unnecessarily trying to fight for his rights.
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Old 13th May 2010, 17:55   #30
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Originally Posted by kunaldhami View Post
very shocking behaviour by Nanavati Toyota. We send our Innova there for servicing, Now we will be extra carefull while dealing with them.

dont just do that - also speak to them when you are in the showroom and ask them about this incident. thats when it will hit them hard


Toyota might be right to say they cant comment on the signature difference but the least they should do is to have a one on one chat with dealer and ask him to sort out the colour issue with the customer
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