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Old 2nd July 2010, 17:04   #46
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Default They have done with it , the car is sold !!!

i just met one of the guys here and generally enquired what happened with the car that met with an accident. He said laughing in kannada,

" Saar ! we sold it after three days of the accident ", we dont keep those kind of pieces with us for long, we push it immediately and finish the story !

Sad,but true that we have dealers who are not fair in their dealings. I am on my own, but i do carry out my business in very fair manner, not like this whatsoever.

Very Sad state of affairs. Very Bad.

Where is our country heading to?

Well Spitfire & Pradip,

The guy who drove the car to an accident still drives the cars like the way he does. Today i saw him driving a new ikon in the same manner, no change whatsover, i am left wondering, is there no repent at all ? not an ounce?

Last edited by nandans2005 : 2nd July 2010 at 17:09.
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Old 2nd July 2010, 17:13   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prithvi_seln View Post
guys want to have a note in this regard been in the OEM final assembly for 8 years i think without knowing the extent of damage we should not comment on this. on seeing the accident pictures i assume that the damage will be to the extent of bumper and fender damage and these are replaceable parts so once replaced and after through inspection i can say that the car is as good as new build, incase the shell or the mounting area has got damaged and the gaps and lines dont match then it can call for a discount.. hope people know what are moving parts what is a shell..
When I go to a showroom to buy a new car with my hard earned money, I deserve a brand new car ... Period ... passing of an accidented car as a new car is just not the same thing ... Sorry ... I do not agree with you that bumper/fender replaced car is a new car.
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Old 2nd July 2010, 17:19   #48
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The weakest link in vehicle supply chain is vehicle unloading. Sometimes the manufacturer also ends up paying dearly. The truck driver is deputed to unload the cars from the truck (loading done by logistics department of the manufacturer at the factory). Dealerships usually buy out the driver to admit that car got damaged during unloading. Now which car got damaged is easily manipulated. For the white figo which nandan2005 clicked,dealership will claim it was already damaged during unloading or may ask "What proof do you have that one of my boys did it?" Or they may ask "how you are related to that car" (Read as Is it your car we damaged?). Guys, this is very intricate. It is not easy to nail a dealership on what happened in their premise and not on a public road. Yes it is indeed very unfortunate for anyone who gets pasted with a damaged car.
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Old 2nd July 2010, 17:45   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nandans2005 View Post
......
" Saar ! we sold it after three days of the accident ", we dont keep those kind of pieces with us for long, we push it immediately and finish the story !
......
Well Spitfire & Pradip,

The guy who drove the car to an accident still drives the cars like the way he does. Today i saw him driving a new ikon in the same manner, no change whatsover, i am left wondering, is there no repent at all ? not an ounce?
Good job Nandans, I would actually like to see ford or the dealership report on the this thread the actions taken on this car and the driver.

I remember Skoda tried replying in one of the threads, though they were not helpful/successful.

Regards
Raghu
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Old 2nd July 2010, 17:51   #50
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ideally any such cars should be sold out in seconds sales or discounted sales to either public or to their own staff and this is a practice in some major countries and also in india in a few OEM's.

Like many people have put down very strongly that any customer buys a new car hoping that its new, he must not be cheated.

If anyone would want to buy a car with some parts replaced then he will head to a used car dealer and not a new car showroom so please dont support the concept that its ok if a few parts are replaced since anyway they are not repaired.

I have personally seen the behaviour and attitude of these drivers since i leave my car for service to a garage on the same road and on that narrow road these jokers accelerate hard and brake hard causing panic to oncoming vehicles and pedestrians. Hope their supervisor takes some action.
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Old 5th July 2010, 08:35   #51
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Default My mail to Mr M Boneham, MD, Ford

This is the mail I sent to Ford India MD
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Sir:

At the outset I would like to congratulate Ford on bringing in products catering to the needs of Indian customers. The Figo, for instance, is surely value for money.

Further I am looking forward to the Fiesta hatch when I replace my small hatch. And given that Indian car dealerships have a notorious reputation it pays to observe how my prospective car's dealership is. (Like I had Skoda's Bangalore dealer get my registration forged to pass on a lemon.)

In that regard I read a fairly shocking incident about Lathangi Ford. One of Lathangi Ford's associate banged a brand new Figo while entering the gate of the dealership. Upon asked what he will do - our member was told that " What else, rework and sell it off" . Further our member reported that the car was subsequently sold off.

You can get the full report here - "BEWARE: Figo customers at Lathangi Ford" (with the link), including how damaged the car was before it was sold off.

I am not sure how you feel but I was absolutely shocked out of my wits to learn about this. As you would see in the forum we have been cautioning members from buying at Lathangi Ford. At the very least I thought it was important to bring this to your notice as I am not sure if you would be aware of such on-the-ground incidents.

I also wish you start an investigation and take firm action and replace confidence in not only Ford (which I have) but also on the dealership - which I don't.

Thank you for reading through.

Sincerely,
XXXXXXX

Last edited by diffsoft : 5th July 2010 at 08:39.
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Old 5th July 2010, 10:18   #52
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Default Response from Ford

My mail above was sent at 8:33 am. I got a response at 10:13 am. Really appreciate the promptness.

Response from Mr Boneham. This was copied to 2 more folks.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

XXXXX, thanks very much for sending me your note . I am disturbed by the advice you have sent me relative to the dealership actions and have asked that our GM Customer Service investigate the incident fully. I appreciate you taking the time to send me the note, best regards, Michael

Michael Boneham
President & Managing Director
Ford India

------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Old 5th July 2010, 11:42   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeeva View Post
When I asked him about the structural damage and if they would be upfront and admit to the customer that its a accident vehicle, he said its for the customer to check out. He said "these days people come with a long PDI checklist from your bhp club (he meant T-bhp), so they should find out".
This is as 'good' as it can get!! The morons use the team-bhp checklist as an excuse to absolve themselves of their responsibility towards ensuring that the product they are selling conforms to quality ( I am referring the original PDI done by the dealer prior to delivery). Instead of taking the bhp checklist as a reason to be all the more careful with the products, they are passing the onus onto the customer!!

Think about a customer who is not aware of the team-bhp checklist? What all other internal inspections that they(dealers) need to be doing would be getting written off. Pathetic!

Not a good sign for the dealer and also not good for Ford India. I would advise all my friends to keep away from Lathangi. They might be good at repairing/replacing dents in cars and selling them off to unsuspecting people, but its going to be difficult for Lathangi to repair their dented image among both existing and prospective customers.

While Ford's MD's quick response is much appreciated, I so very much hope that the response really transpires to some kind of action on the ground.
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Old 5th July 2010, 11:50   #54
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I am not surprised at the line taken by most people viewing this thread as buying a car is still a major event in India. Emotions are bound to explode.

Grace has given the actual view based on his experience being in this industry I would completely agree with him. If the car has no structural damage and parts replaced (nor repaired), I do not see a reason why this cannot be sold as new. A fender or bumper does not alter the drivability of the car and is easily replaced. If there are structural damages surely the Dealer would not sell this car. The dealer always has the option of making such cars as TD cars.

The question I would like to ask are
  1. How do people drive Test Drive Vehicles? TD vehicles get buggered the most with people pushing the cars to the limits while do a TD. Do you think it is OK to do this with a TD vehicle? No doubt the dealership staff all tend to misuse these vehicle but the point I trying to get across that people will not think twice if they have to "try-out" the TD vehicle.
  2. When we meet with minor accidents on the road what are the natural reactions? Most will jump to deny that they were the cause or they will blame some one like " the car in front braked". Do you really feel bad? Do you offer to go to the work shop to assess the damage and share the cost? Mostly the reaction would be that this is a minor accident so nothing the worry. We judge the seriousness of an accident based on the legal/insurance complications. In the absence of either legal/insurance complications most will not bother.
  3. Have not people lied to insurance companies so as to get 'no claims bonuses' on renewal? When you come to know of this what is your reaction? Do ask the guy to go back and pay up or you are indifferent as it does not concern you?
  4. When you see an accident how many actually stop to help? Would you carry an injured in car even if the car may get soiled?
It is wrong the judge based on one incident. I have seen Maruti cars on a truck which had hit overhead bridge or heard of dealer cars which were submerged in water in freak rains like the Mumbai floods. Do you think that that such cars were never sold as new cars? So what has happened in one Ford Dealership can happen in any other dealership of any brand.

My advice is please do not buy a car with negative thoughts in you mind. The probaility that your car has met with an accident before delivery is very low, almost NIL. Buying a car is a great experience and should you have negative thoughts you will never enjoy that car ever as you always feel that something is wrong.

Dealer is equally responsible to make this experience a great one and I am sure that Dealer will never sell you a car with a inherent defect. The manufacturers warranty program and process in place will ensure that the car meets its specifications pre and post delivery.

I am taking this risk of strong negative response to my mail but I felt it is time we over come the "I am the victim" card. Value systems in general have degenerated and that is a fact. Better accept it and try and make a better tomorrow by you doing the right things first before expecting other to do the same.

Cheers

KPS
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Old 5th July 2010, 15:45   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KPS View Post
Dealer is equally responsible to make this experience a great one and I am sure that Dealer will never sell you a car with a inherent defect.
@KPS, yes, a different perspective on the incident.

But I have the following view on this :

If a car meets with an accident at a dealer's place, the car needs to be sent back to the main manufacturing and testing unit, where the car should be stripped to the extent recommended by the technical team there, tested for all possible problems, including structural and all related systems, a report prepared, based on which only the manufacturing and testing centre must must be authorised to clear the car as fit to be delivered, that too only if it deems so. The cost of all this must obviously be borne by the dealer or the dealer's insurance company.

I am sure the dealer / dealer's service centre will not be in a position to do the above thorough technical checks, so the practice of dealers doing rectification jobs is not correct. This system should apply not just to Ford, but to all automobile companies, which should insist on these systems and procedures.

What Nandan has done is truly commendable. Unless such incidents are reported, unwitting consumers will continue to suffer, on account of a lack of proper systems in such cases.

Last edited by mooza : 5th July 2010 at 15:57.
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Old 7th July 2010, 18:59   #56
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Dear mooza,

No manufacturer or dealer will break their heads for simple body or chassis/frame work. Here we are dealing with cars of mass production,not hand made cars that cost a fortune. It involves so much cost to have the car sent back to factory until unless its is manufacturing defect. Even if we were to go by your line of thought then no one would visit the dealer, all will go to mfg company. Then mfg will stop producing cars and only tend to accident cases. What can be repaired at dealers end need not and will not be sent back to mfg company. Manufacturing companies only produce cars, they do not have facility of repairing cars.

Regards
Andy
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Old 7th July 2010, 19:31   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grace View Post
Here we are dealing with cars of mass production,not hand made cars that cost a fortune.
So are we expected to just sit back and become victims of this mass production ? I feel it is the the customer that drives this mass production, and therefore deserves the best.

Regards, Mooza
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Old 7th July 2010, 20:12   #58
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diffsoft - Good job there!
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Old 7th July 2010, 20:42   #59
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Great thoughts KPS . Just to add - some of the items in the pre-delivery checklist are usless according to me ( e.g : feel the body for any dents etc - not visible to eye ) . You never know whether you will get the first dent just after driving out of the showroom or how the dealer has driven you car from the yard to the showroom. Buying a car is a great moment . Cherish it ! Why waste time in small and useless things ? I bought by Fiesta from Lathangi - I remember the joy I felt 9 months ago when I saw the car ready for delivery in the showroom with my wife . Did the basic checks and took it home . Not a single issue till now . Do I even care - if it was repaired or etc - which I do not know or feel ? I don't have a single scratch after driving ~ 6000 Kms in Bangalore traffic in these 9 months . I have seen people in the same showroom doing all sorts of checks and often misbehaving with the staff . Hope all their cars are still ok
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Old 7th July 2010, 21:00   #60
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Diffsoft, Good initiative on your part.

So many dealers have a care a damn attitude about customers & we don't have any regulations in India to control them. Wish other manufacturers give errant dealers the stick the way Maruti does. Many of the dealers have deep pockets & take up dealerships to convert their black $$$ into white. Not because of any love for automobiles.

After all, how many dealership owners do you see who actually take part in the day to day management & are available on phone to customers & their grievances ?

Nice to see the MD of Ford replying to your mail ! Lathangi Ford top management may not even be aware of the goings on in their premises. Have you marked an email to them too ?
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