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Old 24th April 2012, 13:13   #16
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Default Re: We hit another car that isn't endorsed to the legal heir. Now, who is responsible

So much internet bandwidth on this - a 12k estimate from A.S.S is never more than 3-4k from any outside agency. Just take it to FNG and sort it out asap. Not worth the hassle, or your time (either in dealing with that chap, or in following up this thread)
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Old 24th April 2012, 13:21   #17
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Default Re: We hit another car that isn't endorsed to the legal heir. Now, who is responsible

Quote:
Originally Posted by alto99 View Post
Assuming its your drivers fault, its your third party insurance that should pay the costs of repair. I believe this would be irrespective of whether the other party has valid insurance or not.
Also if NCB was highest then its not only 1st year NCB that the alto owner will loose but he will loose a specific % for following years as well if he had to claim through his own insurance.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DieselFan View Post
Interesting topic has been touched here. Claiming third party insurance for repair of another car due to fault of owner's car. How do we calim the same. Is the process simple?
Third party insurance requires legal process, i.e filing police complaint and claims can been done via court orders only. Its a long process and the damage here is of low value that its not worthy to follow court procedure.

Just spoke with the driver that .

He says the drivers seems to be drunken. Since they were visiting Tirupur for a function he dint argue with them and create a scene and already the crowd was supporting local Alto guy only.

He was reversing our car very slowly and about to take a cut while applying breaks. The alto guy passed/ overtook our car by passenger side and he took a left turn closely to our car. Our amby left rear bumper bruised with Alto's Rear left door. Alto door suffered 3-4 inch dent on the middle. Our bumper just has scratch marks.

Still waiting for the pictures from Alto driver.
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Old 24th April 2012, 13:30   #18
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Default Re: We hit another car that isn't endorsed to the legal heir. Now, who is responsible

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Originally Posted by alto99 View Post
Assuming its your drivers fault, its your third party insurance that should pay the costs of repair. I believe this would be irrespective of whether the other party has valid insurance or not.
My understanding of the process is that third party insurance would require you to file an FIR.

Infact you need a copy of the FIR. The insurance company then appoints a lawyer who fights the case in behalf of you and the court decides how much compensation has to be paid to the third party, which the insurance company pays directly. A legal process with one of the parties not even having valid documents, is a sure recipe for trouble.

There is a high possibility that the Insurance company would try to fight it on the basis 'since the guy did nt have a valid insurance, he did nt have any business to be on the road.' This may or may not help you in your case, but will end up getting a hefty fine to the third party.

So while the first person can always go for the third party insurance, question to ponder is, whether the third party would be ready for the consequences? So even if the OP wants to claim third party insurance will the other guy be ready?

If yes, then go ahead. If no, then legally you have no obligation. Moral considerations apart.
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Old 24th April 2012, 13:36   #19
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Default Re: We hit another car that isn't endorsed to the legal heir. Now, who is responsible

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Originally Posted by jeganatu View Post
He says the drivers seems to be drunken. Since they were visiting Tirupur for a function he dint argue with them and create a scene and already the crowd was supporting local Alto guy only.

He was reversing our car very slowly and about to take a cut while applying breaks. The alto guy passed/ overtook our car by passenger side and he took a left turn closely to our car. Our amby left rear bumper bruised with Alto's Rear left door. Alto door suffered 3-4 inch dent on the middle. Our bumper just has scratch marks.

Still waiting for the pictures from Alto driver.
The cost of fixing this door at a local garage would be no more than 3-4 thousand.

But if what your driver says is true, that the Alto guy was drunk.
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Old 24th April 2012, 13:44   #20
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Default Re: We hit another car that isn't endorsed to the legal heir. Now, who is responsible

My opinion:

I won't go into whose fault it was. The incident has happened.

You offered to make good his loss on the depreciation and the NCB. Good gesture there.

Now wait till the guy produces documents of the repairs done under insurance claim. If he does, verify them and make good your promise. If he doesn't, well, wait!

Since you have made your promise and are going to keep it, I see no reason why you should be worried about all the other questions. If the other guy doesn't have his papers in order, it's the least of YOUR worries. If he ever gets around to lodging a claim, you are ready to keep your word. If he never gets around to that, you have nothing to pay him.

Now, whether to pay him the entire repair cost (without his lodging an insurance claim) or not is what you need to think of. Since your car is insured, if you decide to pay him make sure your insurance company consents. Any settlement reached in such cases without the insurance company's consent could be risky.

Personally since you are insured, I see no reason why you should be paying for the repairs.
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Old 24th April 2012, 20:38   #21
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Default Re: We hit another car that isn't endorsed to the legal heir. Now, who is responsible

Is the Alto transferred by the RTO in the name of the legal heir/s of the deceased owner? I doubt this has been done as at first the insurance has to be processed to mutate it to the legal heirs name prior to the registration being mutated.
If the RTO has not been informed of the death of the registered owner of a motor vehicle within the requisite time period, its an offence under the MV Act.
Shelling out 12K is nonsensical- you must never agree to it as the Alto seems to be having dubious ownership papers.
At the most you can agree to pay 50 % of it. You need to negotiate to convince him that he is not holier than thou.If the guy does not agree and is rigid, you can talk to him about taking recourse to the legal process after filing a police complaint.
If the guy was drunk the law says that he must be tested medically for alcohol in his bloodstream within three hours of the incident happening. Or else, medical reports do not stand. No government doctor or even private doctors aware of the law of the land will do any test after three hours have elapsed.This is why drunk drivers flee after the accident and then reappear after a considerable lapse of time ( 3 plus hours).
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Old 24th April 2012, 22:23   #22
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Default Re: We hit another car that isn't endorsed to the legal heir. Now, who is responsible

Is the Alto owner trying for a double take? That is collecting damages in full from you and claiming from insurance as well. (refer post No 3 of vkochar and No 20 by honeybee.)

Last edited by rajeev k : 24th April 2012 at 22:26.
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Old 24th April 2012, 23:43   #23
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Default Re: We hit another car that isn't endorsed to the legal heir. Now, who is responsible

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeganatu View Post
....


Hoping that insurance will do the job and the remaining amount due shall be paid by us and the alto owner need not shell out a penny from his pocket direct.

Monday 23-04-2012 Got a call from the Alto owner

Now he says Showroom quoted 12k estimate since the door needs to be completely replaced as the dent cannot be sucked out and includes full repaint of the new door. [I will receive the pictures of the dent from the Alto owner and will post the same soon. ]
I replied like we shall pay the balance amount after claiming from the insurance so that he need not shell out any money from his pocket.

Here starts the issue:

The Alto owner says car is in name of his expired father and its been 4 months and he had not yet done name transfer / endorsement for the car and the insurance. Hence he cannot claim insurance and asks me to completely bare the cost of 12k.

I said this is ridiculous and we cannot take the responsibility for his negligence for not transferring the name of the car and I even said its illegal to drive such car. I added that I can still pay him the difference amount to be paid if the same has been processed under insurance. Now he claims that its his decision to claim or not claim insurance and my father has committed rectify the damage, so we need to pay him for the same that is 12000.

...
Why would it be ridiculous? when you (your father) promised to pay up - did you tell him that you'll pay the difference from insurance? And by the way how much did you think you're goin to pay? Rs 500 for a broken door? Wouldn't that be wishful thinking and intent to cheat?

Also aren't you a little too willing to believe your driver's assertion that the other guy was drunk?



And what's the matter with everyone on this thread? Most people know someone who has driven a few days on a lapsed insurance. Many on TBHP have. If anyone you know happens to be in the situation of the Alto-guy would you be providing the crappy advice you are providing?


I think the best thing to do would be to get it repaired outside - unless your honour is worth less than a few thousand rupees (depreciation, cumplusary deductibles and NCB for a coupled of years together would anyway add to several thousand rupees - you are on the hook for quite a bit of money out of that 12k even assuming that the guy had valid insurance), go ahead and get the car repaired well.

Last edited by vina : 24th April 2012 at 23:58.
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Old 25th April 2012, 00:07   #24
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Default Re: We hit another car that isn't endorsed to the legal heir. Now, who is responsible

Vina,

Has the OP refused to use his third party cover for paying the victim?

If the victim is not able to use the third party cover, is it the OP's fault.
What is the purpose of buying a third party insurance cover, if it is not used in such cases.

Now let me throw your Honour question back at you.

Lets assume you have an accident. You crashed into a legally parked "Maruti 800" and broke its tail light.
I am sure you will replace it without any second thought. If the situation is such that your victim is unable to use your third party insurance, You will pay out of your pocket.
Now lets replace the Maruti 800 with an Altis or a Civic, you may still pay up.
Now lets replace it with a S class or Audi or BMW, I guess now it starts getting a little dicey.
How about moving to a Limited Edition Bentley.

That is the problem in questioning others morality. No one including myself can answer honestly what we would do in real life.
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Old 25th April 2012, 01:00   #25
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Default Re: We hit another car that isn't endorsed to the legal heir. Now, who is responsible

Quote:
Originally Posted by bblost View Post
Vina,

Has the OP refused to use his third party cover for paying the victim?

If the victim is not able to use the third party cover, is it the OP's fault.
What is the purpose of buying a third party insurance cover, if it is not used in such cases.

Now let me throw your Honour question back at you.

Lets assume you have an accident. You crashed into a legally parked "Maruti 800" and broke its tail light.
I am sure you will replace it without any second thought. If the situation is such that your victim is unable to use your third party insurance, You will pay out of your pocket.
Now lets replace the Maruti 800 with an Altis or a Civic, you may still pay up.
Now lets replace it with a S class or Audi or BMW, I guess now it starts getting a little dicey.
How about moving to a Limited Edition Bentley.

That is the problem in questioning others morality. No one including myself can answer honestly what we would do in real life.

On the third day after I bought my Figo, I hit a guy's City from behind while trying to save myself from a speeding bus at Jubilee Hills checkpost. I paid the guy full damages on the spot.

If I had hit a Bentley - I wouldn't promise to pay anything, though if I could afford it, I would - and in that case I will pay up.


Coming to the specific incidence:

Drivers do not suddenly acquire bad habits, our man's driver was reversing his car illegally - that is a fact. He hit another car and left a 3-4inch dent in the door (measure Alto's door, the door's thickness is not 3-4inches) making it unusable - what kind of a slow moving ambassador was that - that is a fact. The other guy was "probably drunk" appears not in the fist post, but later. That our TBHPian is OK with paying NCB appears not in the first post but later.


May be if I hit a Benteley or, (why stop at that?) hit an Alto and killed a child, I will try to run away from the scene like most would. However I wouldn't be proud of it, nor would I tell someone else in a similar situation "it is the Alto guy's fault - he didn't have insurance"
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Old 25th April 2012, 01:07   #26
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Default Re: We hit another car that isn't endorsed to the legal heir. Now, who is responsible

Quick question for the thread op? Do you want to honour your father's word in letter and spirit?

If the answer is yes, you know in your heart what you have to do, everyone else's opinion does not and should not matter.
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Old 25th April 2012, 02:19   #27
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Default Re: We hit another car that isn't endorsed to the legal heir. Now, who is responsible

Whether Alto Guy has insurance or not is immaterial. He is not supposed to use his insurance.
You are supposed to pay for the damage, since its your fault.
Now you can pay 12K out of your pocket, or you can pay 12K via 3rd party insurance. Its entirely upto you.
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Old 25th April 2012, 02:34   #28
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Default Re: We hit another car that isn't endorsed to the legal heir. Now, who is responsible

It upto you man, Decide what you want to do.

You can take two options here either blindly tell the alto guy go to court and then we will decide. Or pay the damage caused to him due to your drivers fault. Also your father had agreed to pay the cost. The alto Guy didn't go for the case due to your father's word. So if you choose the first option then its a cheating

Talking on illegal insurance i don't think its too much to be said here. It was a legal insurance till his father died. And i am sure most of us will not care this to be changed until the next insurance payment is due.

If the alto guy is illegal then your driver was illegal too by reversing on a one way road that too @ midnight where you should be more causious.

So decide the way your mind says. Kepp in mind that he will loose his NCB . And to each insurance payment will be high till he reaches what percentage he is in now.

I this senario i would recommend you to talk with the alto guy and get the car repaired by any local workshop and bear that cost. That is the most appropriate step in this case. Talk with him and be a good state for both of you. You should give him this option to get the vehicle repaired in a local workshop and you will pay the cost

Last edited by xenxer : 25th April 2012 at 02:40.
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Old 25th April 2012, 02:54   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979
Whether Alto Guy has insurance or not is immaterial. He is not supposed to use his insurance.
You are supposed to pay for the damage, since its your fault.
Now you can pay 12K out of your pocket, or you can pay 12K via 3rd party insurance. Its entirely upto you.
+1. The Alto guy not having valid insurance is immaterial here. As per you, it was your driver's fault so your insurance has to pay for third party liabilities. AFAIK, third party liability coverage includes Uninsured Motorists on road. Somebody mentioned that Alto guy does not have valid insurance so he can't file a complain - I don't think that's true either. He can still file police complain and he gets to pay the fine for driving without proper insurance.

And how come your driver or father did not realize that the Alto guy was when your father talked to him and agreed to pay the damage. If the Alto guy was drunk, it was your father's responsibility to call Cops right away and have him arrested. By that way, you would not have been liable for any damage.

I would suggest you to either pay 12k and move on or talk to Alto owner and make him understand to get the car repaired from outside for around 5-6K, because as per your description, it is really your driver's mistake and not the Alto guy's.

Last edited by Nitrous Power : 25th April 2012 at 02:58.
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Old 25th April 2012, 07:54   #30
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Default Re: We hit another car that isn't endorsed to the legal heir. Now, who is responsible

You have made a very decent proportion to the Alto guy. If he do not want to use his insurance, he have the option of going for your insurance. But, if he is not able to do either because of his fault, you should not much bother about paying the full amount from your pocket.

It is his fault that insurance cannot be claimed, and it was not entirely the fault of your driver that the accident happened.

Few weeks back, our Vista was hit from behind by a Lorry. My dad was driving the vista and he was waiting for signal at an intersection to take a right turn. this lorry guy was taking a left turn at the same intersection, but he was talking to another person in the cabin so he misjudged the space and hit our car from behind, broke one tail lamp and dented the rear hatch door and the panel behind rear door. He gave us the option of calming his 3rd party insurance but since it will include lot of legal red tape, it was negotiated that he will pay 1K as token for his negligence and we will pursue our own damage repair.

We had to forgo the option of claiming his 3rd party not because he was not willing, but because we were not ready to do it because of the legal hassles (this accident happened at a distant town and it was not possible for us to delay the journey to go to the police station, file the FIR etc due to some personal reasons).

If he do not have a valid insurance, I do not think he have any legal ground on making any case against you. You are doing a good job by giving him options, but never agree to pay the damage in full.
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