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Old 25th April 2012, 10:23   #31
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Default Re: We hit another car that isn't endorsed to the legal heir. Now, who is responsible

As everyone has said, pay 3-4K. If he doesn't agree ask him to go to court or file a case against your insurance. That is hoping your Amby has atleast a 3rd party insurance.

Cheers
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Old 25th April 2012, 11:18   #32
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Default Re: We hit another car that isn't endorsed to the legal heir. Now, who is responsible

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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Whether Alto Guy has insurance or not is immaterial. He is not supposed to use his insurance.
You are supposed to pay for the damage, since its your fault.
Now you can pay 12K out of your pocket, or you can pay 12K via 3rd party insurance. Its entirely upto you.

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Originally Posted by Nitrous Power View Post
+1. The Alto guy not having valid insurance is immaterial here. As per you, it was your driver's fault so your insurance has to pay for third party liabilities. AFAIK, third party liability coverage includes Uninsured Motorists on road. Somebody mentioned that Alto guy does not have valid insurance so he can't file a complain - I don't think that's true either. He can still file police complain and he gets to pay the fine for driving without proper insurance.

And how come your driver or father did not realize that the Alto guy was when your father talked to him and agreed to pay the damage. If the Alto guy was drunk, it was your father's responsibility to call Cops right away and have him arrested. By that way, you would not have been liable for any damage.

I would suggest you to either pay 12k and move on or talk to Alto owner and make him understand to get the car repaired from outside for around 5-6K, because as per your description, it is really your driver's mistake and not the Alto guy's.
Finally some sanity on the thread, looking at the first few responses I thought people have gone insane.

Getting it repaired, if a repair is possible, from third-party garage will probably save a bundle. And the Alto guy will probably agree to that given the hassle.

If it isn't possible to repair the door (that is possible too) then the accident was anything but mild, and thank your starts nobody got hurt, because if somebody did it wouldn't matter whether the Alto guy had insurance or whether he was drunk - your car would be lying in a police yard right now and driver, perhaps your father too, might have gone through a rather bad experience on the road.

I think 12k is not too much to pay as a tribute to divine help in saving your behind.
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Old 25th April 2012, 11:32   #33
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Default Re: We hit another car that isn't endorsed to the legal heir. Now, who is responsible

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Originally Posted by vina View Post
Why would it be ridiculous? when you (your father) promised to pay up - did you tell him that you'll pay the difference from insurance?

Also aren't you a little too willing to believe your driver's assertion that the other guy was drunk?
Yes I double checked with my father and my temporary driver that my father said he will pay what ever the amount he incur after claiming insurance.


My driver was alone, and they were 4 dude on the alto, and why would they just leave the scene so quick only on hearing my fathers' promise and exchanging number? something fishy here? That too we are from other town. You or I leave like this, wont we take some cash from the person since its not a major crash? If its major then we would have gone to police.

Anyways, whether he is drunk or not, its over now. If he was drunk, it would be a valid point only when we had gone to the police and we had a point to enforce its not our mistake.

Experts can you answer my doubt ?

since his insurance is not legally active / valid, by any chance does my third party insurance can still fetch him a claim?

Wont my insurance use this fact ( his invalid insurance) to defend themselves in court that they cannot issue claim .

I knew that third-party claims can be processed via Court by lawyer from both the insurance company defending each other and make settlement based on Judgement. Here my car did not suffer any damage, What will be the case if mine also had a major damage. Since His insurance not valid, I need to use my own insurance to claim right.

And the Alto guy's insurance is not valid for him to file a case against me, So how will this impact the third party benefit of my insurance to him?
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Old 25th April 2012, 12:03   #34
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Default Re: We hit another car that isn't endorsed to the legal heir. Now, who is responsible

Keeping the morality apart. Here is what I think you should do
1. Ask him to go to a FNG and take a quote, it should be substantially cheaper to repair at FNG then at A.S.S. Depending on the amount, pay him a major portion out of it.
2. If he still acts crappy and insists to go for a Maruti A.S.S , then ask him to claim his insurance or your 3rd party insurance and ask him to file a FIR and then sit at it.

Just because your father promised to make good of his loss of NCB and difference after the insurance claim, it doesn't mean that you guys need to take all the crap he throws at you.
People will keep on talking about morality, but keeping it aside, try and resolve the matter by keeping it practical and feasible for both party.
All those who are talking about morality and legality on who is right or wrong were not at the scene and I am sure even Alto guy must be at fault to brush against your car, even if your driver was at fault.
So do what suits you best. Ask him to get another quote from a FNG and then proceed to pay depending on the amount.
And how can everybody else be so sure, that he is not lying about his insurance status?
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Old 25th April 2012, 12:16   #35
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Default Re: We hit another car that isn't endorsed to the legal heir. Now, who is responsible

Name:  untitled.JPG
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This image describes the incident as heard from our driver.

My driver was nearing the turn so he was applying breaks while reversing.
An he sees a car (Alto) passing by to his left side over taking him, while he was looking to his right side window when he heard screeching sound. The hit area was the blind spot for my driver to guess alto's decision that alto is turning towards the same side he was about to take turn.

Wisely the Alto guy could have took a wider left turn guessing our car was backing up slowly. Some how his car bruised our car . Both dint honk.

Soon the crowd gathered. Four guys in alto started argument with our driver. Our driver immediately called my dad and dint did not argue much since he was in new town and he and my dad was supposed to attend a function early the next morning. Dad came and accepted crowds words like it was mistake on us backing up and hit Alto . So just to finish off the scenario he had said them to claim insurance and he will bear the remaining cost and they exchanged numbers.

Driver said the dent was abot 3-4 inches in the middle and the outer edges of the door panel was completely alright and was no problem in open/closing the same.

I wonder why would the showroom guys told they need door replacement

Am still waiting for damage door mail from alto's owner. I have not received any calls from him until Monday. After then I will decide upon requesting him to get estimate from local shop and try to rectify the dent outside. And I will pay full if they repair the same. As per your views and my local tinker' estimate it may be repaired within Rs 5000/-

Last edited by jeganatu : 25th April 2012 at 12:26.
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Old 25th April 2012, 12:45   #36
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Default Re: We hit another car that isn't endorsed to the legal heir. Now, who is responsible

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Originally Posted by Axe77 View Post
Here's my take (not entirely legal analysis but part moral approach). If the fault is entirely of your driver, then hypothetically even if the alto guy had valid insurance, why should he have to claim under his own insurance and bear part of the damages, thereby adversely impacting his own no claims bonus etc.

If indeed it is your car's fault causing the accident, then you should bear the entire repair cost.
I second this opinion, morally IF it is your driver's fault, then you have to bear the cost irrespective of whether he claims his insurance or not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeganatu View Post
Since my father was not there at the incident, from the crowds point of view they declared its was mistake on our cars' part. So let us consider as it is... Its our mistake. First lets wait for the picture of the dent from the Alto owner and then estimate whether can it be tinkered out or will the door needs replacement. Cost of new door is Rs.5350/- as per my local authorized part dealer.
Saying that you should bear the cost does not mean that you have to adhere to pay for all the stuff he is changing. If a repair is possible, that should be checked first and you should also be convinced of the repairs he is doing. If a new door is costing 5350/- then his quote of 12K is exorbitant and you don't need to pay this entire amount. You can very well take the vehicle to your accessories guy and get it repaired by yourself (even if you bear the cost for this, you will end up saving more than 5K).

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Originally Posted by jeganatu View Post
1: I am ready to pay his NCB!
Even this is a good proposition, where in he is not paying anything out of his pocked even indirectly.
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Old 25th April 2012, 12:47   #37
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Default Re: We hit another car that isn't endorsed to the legal heir. Now, who is responsible

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeganatu View Post
Am still waiting for damage door mail from alto's owner. I have not received any calls from him until Monday. After then I will decide upon requesting him to get estimate from local shop and try to rectify the dent outside. And I will pay full if they repair the same. As per your views and my local tinker' estimate it may be repaired within Rs 5000/-
I would say, don't bother if he doesn't follows it up. This should not bother you guys much until he calls up.
Looks clearly to be Alto guy's fault to me, particularly when he has hit your right front of the bumper whil turning.
He clearly misjudged the turn even in his small alto. Pathetic driver, i shoud say
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Old 25th April 2012, 13:03   #38
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Default Re: We hit another car that isn't endorsed to the legal heir. Now, who is responsible

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Originally Posted by vina View Post
And what's the matter with everyone on this thread? Most people know someone who has driven a few days on a lapsed insurance. Many on TBHP have. If anyone you know happens to be in the situation of the Alto-guy would you be providing the crappy advice you are providing?
I don't have a solution to the problem faced by the OP or the Alto guy. But couldn't help not to respond to this thought. Strange! How can a Team-BHPian support driving without renewing the insurance? A day or few days, one is supposed to be abide by the rules of the land. If you are going to break it, better be extra careful on the road not to get caught or get involved in an accident. And if you are going to announce support to breaking rules on a forum, thank god you escaped moderation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Whether Alto Guy has insurance or not is immaterial. He is not supposed to use his insurance.
Might be, but if a tree had fallen on the Alto, won't he use his insurance? Insurance is supposed to act as a cover for accidents. Accidents need not necessarily be made by the insurance holder.
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Old 25th April 2012, 13:12   #39
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Default Re: We hit another car that isn't endorsed to the legal heir. Now, who is responsible

@jeganatu,

I strongly feel that the only thing you owe the Alto guy is
"your third party insurance coverage" + "any pending amount" to repair his car.

If the Alto guy does not want to use your insurance, fine that is his loss. If he is willing to use your insurance, please help him out. But you don't owe him anything else.

Arguments like divine help saved you hence you owe the Alto guy something is just pure nonsense.
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Old 25th April 2012, 13:28   #40
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Default Re: We hit another car that isn't endorsed to the legal heir. Now, who is responsible

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@jeganatu,

I strongly feel that the only thing you owe the Alto guy is
"your third party insurance coverage" + "any pending amount" to repair his car.

If the Alto guy does not want to use your insurance, fine that is his loss. If he is willing to use your insurance, please help him out. But you don't owe him anything else.

Arguments like divine help saved you hence you owe the Alto guy something is just pure nonsense.
But third party insurance claim involves legal process right? I am ready to help him out to claim via my cars' third party insurance. Since the event took place in Tirupur which is 200 km from my place, it is not a feasible option to me either to pursue legal way. The amount is so minimum that instead of going through the sheer legal way, I can even shell out few more money to him and settle the issue. But still I have not heard from him, Lets wait. 12 k for a alto door fixation is real high inflated quote as my local vendor says its Rs 5850 for new door.

Last edited by jeganatu : 25th April 2012 at 13:42.
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Old 25th April 2012, 13:42   #41
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Default Re: We hit another car that isn't endorsed to the legal heir. Now, who is responsible

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Originally Posted by jeganatu View Post
But third party insurance claim involves legal process right? I am ready to help him out to claim via my cars' third party insurance. Since the event took place in Tirupur which is 200 km from my place, It is not a feasible option to to me either to pursue legal way. The amount is so minimum that instead of going through the sheer legal way, I can even shell out few more money to him and settle the issue. But still I have not heard from him, Lets wait.
Call up and check with your insurance company on the process for claiming third party.

From: https://www.icicilombard.com/motor-i...car-claims.cms
Quote:
For Third Party Claims
Claim Form duly signed*
Police FIR copy
Driving License copy
Policy copy
RC copy of the vehicle
There is no court case involved if you are not contesting it. A police FIR may be needed.



Quote:
12 k for a alto door fixation is real high inflated quote as my local vendor says its Rs 5850 for new door.
Add another thousand or two for painting it.

My Car's door was damaged and repaired.
Details are here: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/other-...ml#post2109461 (Independent garage : New Mars (Kukatpally, Hyderabad))

To give an idea of costing.
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Old 25th April 2012, 14:04   #42
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Default Re: We hit another car that isn't endorsed to the legal heir. Now, who is responsible

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Originally Posted by thoma View Post
Might be, but if a tree had fallen on the Alto, won't he use his insurance? Insurance is supposed to act as a cover for accidents. Accidents need not necessarily be made by the insurance holder.
But a tree did not fall on the Alto.
Insurance is supposed to pay when you damage your car in an accident, and other party does not pay. So you can either go to court, demand payment from third party.

For example, in some road accidents, court has directed third party insurers to pay up the damaged party.

When the other party is at fault, they should pay from their insurance, your insurance should not take a hit. Unfortunately, in India, this cannot happen unless the other party agrees, or you go to court.
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Old 25th April 2012, 14:06   #43
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Default Re: We hit another car that isn't endorsed to the legal heir. Now, who is responsible

Your driver was doing a wrong thing; reversing onto a main thoroughfare even if it is late in the night.
That apart the 12K for such a repair is exorbitantly high. I had a gut feeling that he Alto owner may be close the issue below Rs 4L.

Last edited by rajeev k : 25th April 2012 at 14:08.
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Old 25th April 2012, 14:18   #44
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Default Re: We hit another car that isn't endorsed to the legal heir. Now, who is responsible

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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
When the other party is at fault, they should pay from their insurance, your insurance should not take a hit. Unfortunately, in India, this cannot happen unless the other party agrees, or you go to court.
In this case, the OP have agreed to use the third party insurance, but it seems like the Alto guy did not want to do that also. If the alto guy do not want to use the third party insurance of the OP, then why should OP bear the full cost of the repair?

If the third party insurance comes in to picture, can they refuse the claim of Alto guy because he was driving with out a valid insurance?
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Old 25th April 2012, 14:21   #45
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Default Re: We hit another car that isn't endorsed to the legal heir. Now, who is responsible

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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
But a tree did not fall on the Alto.
Insurance is supposed to pay when you damage your car in an accident, and other party does not pay. So you can either go to court, demand payment from third party.
The tree was just a hypothesis. Better example was a hit and run. But thanks that you cleared the point ''and other party does not pay".

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Originally Posted by theexperthand View Post
If the alto guy do not want to use the third party insurance of the OP, then why should OP bear the full cost of the repair?

If the third party insurance comes in to picture, can they refuse the claim of Alto guy because he was driving with out a valid insurance?
I have similar doubts. Thanks for asking. Can the Alto guy legally persist on not going for the 3rd party insurance of the OP? Can the Alto guy legally persist on replacing the door with a new one? Who will be making the repairs or replacement, if it is to be done under the 3rd party insurance of the OP? The OP's workshop or the Alto guy's workshop? Will the insurance people agree for a full door replacement?

Last edited by thoma : 25th April 2012 at 14:34.
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