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Old 9th July 2013, 15:48   #1
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Thumbs down Insurance fraud by Grace Toyota, Gurgaon

I am a proud owner of a Toyota Fortuner bought in June 2010 from Grace Toyota , Gurgaon. Since the purchase I get calls from the dealership for the insurance policy renewals before the earlier policy expiry date and just for the trust in the name "Toyota" and to keep the dealership pleased I have been purchasing the Insurance from the same dealership only every year.
The same happened this year. As the quotation for the premium was very high as compared to the one paid for my similarly priced Skoda Laura a fortnight back , I decided to check the quotes from an independent Insurance agent. To my surprise not only the quotation was far less , I was informed that the Tata AIG policy I purchased from Grace Toyota in July 12 has been inactive all this while for a shortfall of Rs 607 in the premium amount. This shortfall or any other reason , if there was any ,was never brought to my notice all this while . Its beyond doubt that I paid the amount (Rs 41,500) as demanded for (for idv of Rs 15 lakhs) and subsequently recieved the cover note from the Toyota dealer.

I reached the dealership early morning today and met Mr Piyush from the insurance department who tried to pass the responsibility on the Insurance company .After an hour of patient wait for the status of the Policy I decided to come back to work and communicate via mails. Since then I have written to him twice but I have not got a reply to my policy status during "Policy Period".

The key points of my second mail to Mr Piyush are as under :-

1) Do you accept that the insurance policy was proposed and sold by Grace Toyota as done in the prior two terms for the same vehicle?
2) Do you accept proposing the premium amount for the insurance cover which was duly paid by me?
3) Was a shortfall in the premium amount if any,communicated to me ?
4) I acknowledge I would not be able to prove with substantial evidence that I asked for the policy from the dealership during my visits for service, but does it not fall under the duty of the Service provider or its authorised representative to follow up for the same?
5 )What was the status of the policy until this morning ? Active / Pending / Inactive ?
6) If Inactive / Pending where have I fallen short for such a status?
7) Who would have been responsible for a loss due to policy inactivity in case of an accident /theft /miss-happening during this period?
8) I hope Toyota dealerships do not do a charity while selling third party products from their dealerships like insurance,accessories etc. If you make margins in the process, do you accept the accountabiilty too?

No response yet from the the the dealership representing the big brand which speaks loudly about their "Quick Service".

What hurt more was that during my meeting the Grace Toyota representative took this as an opportunity to propagate and sell the expensive (and undoubtedly more rewarding commission wise for the dealership) "Toyota" Insurance for the coming term.

A few minutes back Tata-AIG representative Mr Mrinal in writing confirmed the current status as " The case is re-wip for shortfall of Rs 607". I am yet to get the status of the policy from the insurance company during the whole policy term.

I have written to the Toyota customer care requesting them to take care of my "Trust" and ensure "Quality" services through their authorised representatives. I did not fail to mention in my email that the reason the customers buy Insurance/ Accessories/ non mandatory items during service/vehicle ownership is because the dealerships potray themselves to be the representatives of the Brand else such services are available at very competitive prices outside.

I noticed today that I was banking on the "Cover Note" for my insurance but that has a validity of only 60 days.

I started this thread to know if its just one off case or the dealerships try this to make money from randomly selected gullible vehicle owners

Some more questions which have been troubling me:-
1)Though I made the payment through cheque, was my money used to insure some other vehicle/take care of other dealership dues?
2) Can we bank on a Cover Note as a guarantee for the policy? It can be forged too and as in my case there is no guarantee that if you go to the bigger establishments there would not be any hassles/ cheatings .
3) Who is responsible for this shortfall in Insurance premium?
4) If an insurance policy can be sold with incomplete premium amount how safe are we when we negotiate premiums ?
5) Who is responsible for a bigger loss in case of an accident? Please note that apart from monetary loss , there is a possibility of loss of life / police case.
6) Can this be a reason to deny me a claim/trouble me/seek bribe in case of any accident?
7) Can this be used as an excuse to deny claims even if I offer to pay the shortfall in the premium after an accident ?

I shall update as and when I get response from the dealer, manufacturer or the insurance company.
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Old 9th July 2013, 16:38   #2
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Default Re: Insurance fraud by Grace Toyota, Gurgaon

1) Possible.
2) A cover note (which is usually issued by the insurance agent - in your case the dealership) is valid for only one month since the issue of the insurance policy (if I'm not mistaken). You MUST receive the actual insurance policy document issued by the insurance company, by then.
3) The dealership is fully responsible
4) It is better to interact directly with the insurance companies, or buy a policy online. This will ensure that there is no cheating.

The answer to 5,6,7 is that this seems to be a criminal case. I would advise you to escalate the matter to the CMD/owner of the dealership, and if you do not get a satisfactory answer, go file a case and send these rascals a legal notice.
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Old 9th July 2013, 16:44   #3
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Default Re: Insurance fraud by Grace Toyota, Gurgaon

Do you mean to say- Grace Toyota gave you a quotation for Insurance renewal, and you made a payment based on that quotation, in return they issued a cover note. Now a year later when you went to get the insurance renewed again, this time from a different agent you found that the Insurance cover note issued to you was not valid and a Insurance policy was never purchased by Grace Toyota for your car

If you made the payment based on their quotation, How was the amount short by Rs.607?

They might term this as negligence by some of their employee, but to me from a consumer point of view this is a clear case of fraud. All this because an amount of just 607 Rupees was short!! Which again i feel was Grace Toyota's liability if you paid them whatever amount they asked for as per the quotation.

Based on that cover note, you might have been assuming that your car was insured but in reality you used your car for one whole year without insurance.

Keep us updated.
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Old 9th July 2013, 17:13   #4
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Default Re: Insurance fraud by Grace Toyota, Gurgaon

Quote:
Originally Posted by EagleEye View Post

The answer to 5,6,7 is that this seems to be a criminal case. I would advise you to escalate the matter to the CMD/owner of the dealership, and if you do not get a satisfactory answer, go file a case and send these rascals a legal notice.
I shall do it day after tomorrow if I do not get a satisfactory reply from the Dealership or Toyota . I wonder if fellow BHPians advise giving them this much time to probe into the matter . I will keep my Fortuner parked all this while to avoid issues.

Quote:
Originally Posted by .anshuman View Post
Do you mean to say- Grace Toyota gave you a quotation for Insurance renewal, and you made a payment based on that quotation, in return they issued a cover note. Now a year later when you went to get the insurance renewed again, this time from a different agent you found that the Insurance cover note issued to you was not valid and a Insurance policy was never purchased by Grace Toyota for your car

If you made the payment based on their quotation, How was the amount short by Rs.607?

They might term this as negligence by some of their employee, but to me from a consumer point of view this is a clear case of fraud. All this because an amount of just 607 Rupees was short!! Which again i feel was Grace Toyota's liability if you paid them whatever amount they asked for as per the quotation.

Based on that cover note, you might have been assuming that your car was insured but in reality you used your car for one whole year without insurance.

Keep us updated.
You summed it up well @.anshuman . This is exactly what has happened.
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Old 9th July 2013, 17:21   #5
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Default Re: Insurance fraud by Grace Toyota, Gurgaon

I had exact same issue with TataAIG last year. There was a shortfall because I did not agree to pay the increased service tax and the insurance agent/seller agreed to pay it from his pocket (just to get my business). It was not paid and the policy went into this limp mode. Nobody bothered to call me. After first 10 days (during which one should get their policy docs via snail mail) I followed up (almost until their death; I emailed TataAIG/ called toll free, got local TataAIG contacts and emailed them almost everyday) and I eventually got the documents just after the 60 days period was over after the insurance seller/ the local employee, I was in touch with, paid the shortfall.


I would say yes it is fault of
1. TataAIG first - they should have directly informed you for the shortfall but they do not do that. Looking at mine and your case today this seems to be a major issue with their systems/processes.
2. Dealer - they should have followed up too but they themselves do not get any update from TataAIG directly for such cases (I believe).
But it was equally your responsibility to follow up on insurance documents if you did not receive them in first 10 days.

EDIT:
What can be done now is
1. Call toll free, pay for the shortfall yourselves and ask them to email the document as 60 days period is over and you should not take any risk OR
2. Stop using the vehicle and follow up with TataAIg directly and get this fixed. But be prepared for longer time for this to happen.

Last edited by alto99 : 9th July 2013 at 17:29.
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Old 9th July 2013, 17:27   #6
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Default Re: Insurance fraud by Grace Toyota, Gurgaon

Quote:
Originally Posted by .Albatross. View Post

You summed it up well @.anshuman . This is exactly what has happened.
On the plus side (for lack of a better way to put it)

- You didn't face any issues/insurance claims last year thankfully
- The company owns you the balance payment (last year's premium) since the insurance was never bought. Although this can and should be considered as a criminal case too (IMO). Worst case scenario you can atleast ask them to fund back the money
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Old 9th July 2013, 17:37   #7
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Default Re: Insurance fraud by Grace Toyota, Gurgaon

Quote:
Originally Posted by ninjatalli View Post
On the plus side (for lack of a better way to put it)

- The company owns you the balance payment (last year's premium) since the insurance was never bought. Although this can and should be considered as a criminal case too (IMO). Worst case scenario you can atleast ask them to fund back the money
This is actually not plus. From what I remember he will lose his NCB as policy will not be renewed within 90 days of expiry.
Referene http://knowledge.policybazaar.com/ca...bonus-ncb.html

When is NCB terminated?
- If a claim is made during the policy year, no NCB will be given in the corresponding next year.
- If the policy is not renewed within 90 days from date of expiry on your existing policy.

Last edited by alto99 : 9th July 2013 at 17:39.
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Old 9th July 2013, 18:44   #8
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Default Re: Insurance fraud by Grace Toyota, Gurgaon

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Originally Posted by alto99 View Post
This is actually not plus. From what I remember he will lose his NCB as policy will not be renewed within 90 days of expiry.
Referene http://knowledge.policybazaar.com/ca...bonus-ncb.html
And hence the starting disclaimer in my post "(for lack of a better way to put it)".

Btw the plus part was for the remaining 40k odd which he should be getting back. That should be still around 70-90% of the potential NCB loss. I'm being realistic out here.
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Old 9th July 2013, 20:39   #9
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Default Re: Insurance fraud by Grace Toyota, Gurgaon

Quote:
Originally Posted by .Albatross. View Post
... I decided to come back to work and communicate via mails.
....

I have written to the Toyota customer care requesting them to take care of my "Trust" and ensure "Quality" services through their authorised representatives. ...
Good that you involved Toyota too.

But this is scary! So, I guess its always better to renew the policy on your own rather than trust these dealers.

This has me thinking -

Dealers
- pass on used/damaged cars to customers
- take a 'premium' and help prospective customer jump the queue if there is a waiting list!
- charge/bill totally unnecessary things to inflate the service bill
- charge exorbitantly for new insurance, even renewal!
- severly undervalue your car if you are exchanging
- charge handling/registration bribe as per their wish
- deny you warranty claims for stupidest of reasons, and
- charge exborbitantly for 'official' the accessories

Is there anything we can trust these guys on?
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Old 9th July 2013, 23:02   #10
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Default Re: Insurance fraud by Grace Toyota, Gurgaon

Quote:
Originally Posted by alto99 View Post
.....
But it was equally your responsibility to follow up on insurance documents if you did not receive them in first 10 days.

EDIT:
What can be done now is
1. Call toll free, pay for the shortfall yourselves and ask them to email the document as 60 days period is over and you should not take any risk OR
2. Stop using the vehicle and follow up with TataAIg directly and get this fixed. But be prepared for longer time for this to happen.
I agree but I have been trusting the big brands all this while to take care of my interests. The BMW Secure insurance policy which I got renewed in March 12 was also not delivered to me even after repeated emails until August 12, when the car reached the Total-Loss stage. What happened thereon and the excuses used initially to devoid me of the rights of Insurance claim shall soon be posted in this thread .
In that case even the documented follow ups for a similar cause bore no results.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alto99 View Post
This is actually not plus. From what I remember he will lose his NCB as policy will not be renewed within 90 days of expiry.
Referene http://knowledge.policybazaar.com/ca...bonus-ncb.html

When is NCB terminated?
- If a claim is made during the policy year, no NCB will be given in the corresponding next year.
- If the policy is not renewed within 90 days from date of expiry on your existing policy.
The current policy was required for two reasons , for the no claim bonus and for the vehicle to be re-insured without the hassles of it being surveyed and photographed again.
It is an immaculately kept vehicle but I would like to avoid the same/ similar surveyor as in case of my Laura insurance renewal who upon extensive scrutiny of vehicle asked for a bribe directly to hide a small mark left by a pebble on the windshield. I did not pay him and asked him to file the report with the scar.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ninjatalli View Post
And hence the starting disclaimer in my post "(for lack of a better way to put it)".

Btw the plus part was for the remaining 40k odd which he should be getting back. That should be still around 70-90% of the potential NCB loss. I'm being realistic out here.
I demanded the same this morning from the Grace Toyota but it seems they were more keen on paying Rs 607 to Tata-AIG and bringing the policy to life for the remaining 10 days.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dry Ice View Post
Good that you involved Toyota too.

But this is scary! So, I guess its always better to renew the policy on your own rather than trust these dealers.

This has me thinking -

Dealers
- pass on used/damaged cars to customers
- take a 'premium' and help prospective customer jump the queue if there is a waiting list!
- charge/bill totally unnecessary things to inflate the service bill
- charge exorbitantly for new insurance, even renewal!
- severly undervalue your car if you are exchanging
- charge handling/registration bribe as per their wish
- deny you warranty claims for stupidest of reasons, and
- charge exborbitantly for 'official' the accessories

Is there anything we can trust these guys on?
When I buy the policies from the dealerships apart from the convenience and peace of mind , I am in a way keeping the dealership pleased . Have we not come across situations when the dealership would try to potray some fictitious challenges in getting the insurance claims executed when the policy is bought from outside. One classic example of similar malpractices by dealerships can be found in the Ford Ecosport Official Review thread where the insurance and the accessories are forced upon the car buyers who want to stay in the queue for the delivery.

The hurdles for getting the no claim bonus are no less. Even if the currently non functional policy is brought back to life I have another 9 days to get a fresh one .

No reply to my mails have been received from the dealership/ company yet. This is not "Q" service et al .

Even though its hard to keep such a non spare vehicle parked for a longer period I intend to pursue the fight till it bears results .
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Old 10th July 2013, 14:16   #11
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Post Re: Insurance fraud by Grace Toyota, Gurgaon

Quote:
Originally Posted by .Albatross. View Post
When I buy the policies from the dealerships apart from the convenience and peace of mind , I am in a way keeping the dealership pleased . Have we not come across situations when the dealership would try to potray some fictitious challenges in getting the insurance claims executed when the policy is bought from outside. One classic example of similar malpractices by dealerships can be found in the Ford Ecosport Official Review thread where the insurance and the accessories are forced upon the car buyers who want to stay in the queue for the delivery.
May be off topic but 'I' think that there was probably no reason to keep the dealership pleased. If anything, its their duty to keep a customer pleased at all times (for a good experience, repeat business et al)..

At least now, I hope you will consider transferring your trust on these useless corporates and fancy big companies (who have misplaced your trust and..) who have very less motives to genuinely care for a customer and rather invest your valuable trust in some dependable independent insurance agent who will appreciate your business, work hard for your money and where commission from your business will help run an individual's family..

Not at all an advise but just something to think about. Also it is not harmful to trust any big brands but a reality check at certain thought-of intervals can certainly give you feedback on the trust you like to place (trusting anyone these days is a precious commodity, people/companies should be worthy of it).

Last edited by k_ajay : 10th July 2013 at 14:19.
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Old 11th July 2013, 00:59   #12
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Default Re: Insurance fraud by Grace Toyota, Gurgaon

Very surprising why the Ins Co didnt send you an intimation when your premium was short. Secondly, if premium was short, you may not have received a cover note both the years. Didnt that raise an alarm to you please?

In my experience, always compare quotes when purchasing new or renewing the policy. You can even negotiate with the one you choose. They are willing to give a pass-back by way of reduced premium.
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Old 11th July 2013, 21:39   #13
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Default Re: Insurance fraud by Grace Toyota, Gurgaon

Quote:
Originally Posted by k_ajay View Post
May be off topic but 'I' think that there was probably no reason to keep the dealership pleased. If anything, its their duty to keep a customer pleased at all times (for a good experience, repeat business et al)..
Ideally correct. Practically difficult. As stated in the first post of this thread, I have faced couple of issues getting the insurance claims and I was just trying to play safe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anujatwork View Post
Very surprising why the Ins Co didnt send you an intimation when your premium was short. Secondly, if premium was short, you may not have received a cover note both the years. Didnt that raise an alarm to you please?

In my experience, always compare quotes when purchasing new or renewing the policy. You can even negotiate with the one you choose. They are willing to give a pass-back by way of reduced premium.
Sadly,I never got any such communication , neither from Tata-AIG nor from Grace Toyota. In fact neither the dealership nor the parent company Toyota has cared to write me back on my simple queries written in a layman's language.I hereby request BHPians to suggest legal course of action .


Apart from the other reasons including my marriage and business ,my cars have been keeping me a little too occupied lately and this was the vehicle and the brand I suspected the least. Here is a little:-

My BMW X1 met with a fatal accident last August . It took me more than 3 months to get a part of what was promised to me while selling the policy. The parking charges, estimate charges , loan prepayment charges ,EMIs untill the loan was cleared and the margins the dealership kept while selling accidental car left me with hardly half the car price when I should have ideally got a new car with registration paid by insurers.

My beloved 2003 mpfi Maruti 800 which was given to a workshop owned by a known for a complete overhaul and paintwork has not been returned to me since Sept 2012. The workshop owner had some issues with the landowner who has locked up the place and the matter is in court now .

My Skoda laura recently clocked 29000kms and was due for its second service. While purchesing it in May12 i had paid for the initial 3 service and I could not locate the certificate they issued for the payment. The showroom owners claimed that can be just issued once and no duplicate copy/photocopy of the same can be re-issued. They tried their level best to cheat me of my money but for my awareness (thanks to TEAM-BHP). Engine oil leaked out before I could reach back home , the helpline which was incompetent reached in 2 hours when they had to come from just 3 kms. Anyways I managed to wriggle out using my sources and resources.

My Swift Dzire ZDI was delivered without the service booklet and a big scratch on the Driver's door when it came back from the first free service in Oct 12 . They have not yet fulfilled the promised of getting another booklet issued and delivered.

In my understanding, the most shameless of all in my experience have been Grace Toyota and Bird Auto Gurgaon who would cheat you blatantly without any fear or shame. But ,i should acknowledge tha the parent company BMW does write you back. Maruti listens and Skoda is already paying for their misdeeds.

I am now hesitant about my resolution to adopt the dialogue from a recently watched hollywood flick 'Iceman' , He said "I dont believe in bad luck"

Regret being a little off topic in expressing the high headedness of some car brands in our country.
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