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Old 12th January 2016, 16:06   #1
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Question HDFC Ergo Insurance wants to install a travel logging device in my car!

My car is insured through HDFC ERGO - I got a call today from their office that they would like to install a device in my car for a month.

The device will measure distance travelled, speed, acceleration and braking behaviour. After a month they will analyse data and also share the same with me.

Any idea why they want to do so and is there any catch to this?

regards,
Benny

Related Thread - Link (My tryst with Usage Based Insurance - Progressive's telematics device, Snapshot)

Last edited by GTO : 13th January 2016 at 12:10. Reason: Adding link to related thread on the device :)
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Old 12th January 2016, 16:20   #2
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Default re: HDFC Ergo Insurance wants to install a travel logging device in my car!

Quote:
Originally Posted by reachbennym View Post
My car is insured through HDFC ERGO - I got a call today from their office that they would like to install a device in my car for a month.

The device will measure distance travelled, speed, acceleration and braking behaviour. After a month they will analyse data and also share the same with me.

Any idea why they want to do so and is there any catch to this?

regards,
Benny
Just a guess, maybe you are probably being used as a pilot for some new idea which involves calculating your premium based on driver behaviour? Not sure of its effectiveness if a machine is needed for every vehicle though
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Old 12th January 2016, 16:26   #3
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Default re: HDFC Ergo Insurance wants to install a travel logging device in my car!

Already insurers have differential premiums for the same vehicles depending on the kilometers covered every year (that checkbox at the bottom that says, this vehicle is driven less than 10000 kms in a year), the area where it is primarily used etc. They may be now trying out the next level of deterministic data capture. I personally will never agree to the installation of such a device. It sounds pretty intrusive to me, not to speak of the possibility where they may use the data to counter a claim in the future.
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Old 12th January 2016, 16:27   #4
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Default re: HDFC Ergo Insurance wants to install a travel logging device in my car!

In some countries, having this kind of a device installed and proving to the insurance company that you are a safe driver can mean lower insurance premiums.

If I were you, I would not want any invasion of my privacy.
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Old 12th January 2016, 16:39   #5
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Default re: HDFC Ergo Insurance wants to install a travel logging device in my car!

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Originally Posted by reachbennym View Post
Any idea why they want to do so and is there any catch to this?
Quite a few insurers in the US (Allstate, Progressive etc.) use this device to calculate your premium. They offer to send this device to you with the promise that they will lower your insurance premium based on your driving.

What it entails is: you install the device in your car for some period (30 days is common) and it monitors your driving habits: how much you drive, speed, sudden acceleration/deceleration etc. You send the device back to the company after a period and they analyze the data.

In the US, insurance premium is determined by a LOT of factors: the no. of years you've had your DL, tickets in the past, type of car you drive and so on. They've been using this device to use real-time driving style as another factor.
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Old 12th January 2016, 16:41   #6
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Default re: HDFC Ergo Insurance wants to install a travel logging device in my car!

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Originally Posted by Zappo View Post
Already insurers have differential premiums for the same vehicles depending on the kilometers covered every year (that checkbox at the bottom that says, this vehicle is driven less than 10000 kms in a year), the area where it is primarily used etc. They may be now trying out the next level of deterministic data capture. I personally will never agree to the installation of such a device. It sounds pretty intrusive to me, not to speak of the possibility where they may use the data to counter a claim in the future.
Once an insurance company issues the policy, they have to entertain the claim subject to the terms and conditions of the policy. Even if your driving pattern / behavior recorded by the device is aggressive, they (and the courts) cannot assume that there was aggressive or unlawful driving at the time of the accident.

Insurance company may choose to charge more premium from the aggressive drivers. But once they accept the premium and issue a policy, they will surely entertain the claim subject to the terms and conditions of the policy.

This request from the company appears to be a survey for their statistical records.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddy View Post
In some countries, having this kind of a device installed and proving to the insurance company that you are a safe driver can mean lower insurance premiums.

If I were you, I would not want any invasion of my privacy.
I agree with Eddy. This may be possible in India in future.
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Old 12th January 2016, 16:46   #7
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Default re: HDFC Ergo Insurance wants to install a travel logging device in my car!

Take a look at the attached thread, which has an explanation. Maybe, HDFC Ergo is experimenting with this in India.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...-snapshot.html (My tryst with Usage Based Insurance - Progressive's telematics device, Snapshot)
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Old 12th January 2016, 16:49   #8
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Default re: HDFC Ergo Insurance wants to install a travel logging device in my car!

Perhaps they are working out on a UBI (Usage Based Insurance) plan for the vehicles?

Related thread - My tryst with Usage Based Insurance - Progressive's telematics device, Snapshot
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Old 12th January 2016, 17:01   #9
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Default Re: HDFC Ergo - travel logging device

Quote:
Originally Posted by reachbennym View Post
My car is insured through HDFC ERGO - I got a call today from their office that they would like to install a device in my car for a month.

The device will measure distance travelled, speed, acceleration and braking behaviour. After a month they will analyse data and also share the same with me.

Any idea why they want to do so and is there any catch to this?

regards,
Benny
I would agree only if they signed an indemnity bond (with significant damages) regarding my personal data and gave me 100% discount along with other freebies!

It sounds like they will do nothing of the above. Please ask them to take a hike!

PS: confidentiality is overrated. god knows whether google, your phone manufacturer, government of India or which app of yours is tracking you already. One more won't hurt - esp if there's significant monetary compensation in the picture.

Last edited by phamilyman : 12th January 2016 at 17:02.
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Old 12th January 2016, 18:42   #10
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Default re: HDFC Ergo Insurance wants to install a travel logging device in my car!

Quote:
Originally Posted by reachbennym View Post
My car is insured through HDFC ERGO - I got a call today from their office that they would like to install a device in my car for a month.

The device will measure distance travelled, speed, acceleration and braking behaviour. After a month they will analyse data and also share the same with me.

Any idea why they want to do so and is there any catch to this?

regards,
Benny
Please ask HDFC ERGO what are the benefits to you as the consumer and what are the kind of discounts that will be offered to you based on the data they collect.

Insurance premiums in India are not as exorbitant as in some of the developed countries. One does not need to rely on additional discounts that may or may not be offered with data based on driving behaviour.

I would stay away from it until such time there is clarity on the usage policy of the data gathered and the benefits from agreeing to share my data provides me a substantial financial benefit.
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Old 12th January 2016, 20:01   #11
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Default re: HDFC Ergo Insurance wants to install a travel logging device in my car!

Quote:
Originally Posted by reachbennym View Post
My car is insured through HDFC ERGO - I got a call today from their office that they would like to install a device in my car for a month.

The device will measure distance travelled, speed, acceleration and braking behaviour. After a month they will analyse data and also share the same with me.

Any idea why they want to do so and is there any catch to this?

regards,
Benny
Progressive insurance in the USA uses this device called Snapshot.The dongle, which plugs into the OBD-II diagnostic port, collects data on how many miles are driven, what times of day a vehicle is in operation and how hard a driver brakes. In exchange for this driver data, prudent drivers can receive discounts as large as 30 percent off their premiums.

Now the funny thing about this is that they claim they dont track the vehicle location and speed but based on some blogs i read, it seems they do. They also claim that they would not share the data without the customers consent for insurance claims but the fine print says "We will not share Snapshot data with any third parties unless itís necessary or appropriate to service your insurance policy, prevent fraud, perform research, or comply with the law"

So you put in a device looking to reduce your premium from 0-30% and if you are kind of hard braker your insurance premium will go up even if there is no claim. Not to mention the risk of the insurance company that you were doing 30 kmph in a 25kmph zone when you had an accident.

There is one set of people whom it does benefit though. People who drive very rarely and drive with a light foot and who follow the speed limit to the T. For them, it is a good way to reduce the insurance premiums.

So think you should take the device from HDFC and play with it a little bit and let us know. May be get it connected to a laptop and see what data it stores. Then we can find a potential hack to it
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Old 13th January 2016, 10:03   #12
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Default re: HDFC Ergo Insurance wants to install a travel logging device in my car!

Thanks everyone for your replies

I wonder what such a device will infer in Indian city driving conditions. There is no cruising - you are either accelerating or braking
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Old 13th January 2016, 11:05   #13
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Default re: HDFC Ergo Insurance wants to install a travel logging device in my car!

Doesnt make sense in India. We often have to break suddenly / weave around obstacles. A tracking of such movements can very wrongly attribute bad driving to the driver - when the cause can be something / some one else.
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Old 13th January 2016, 12:15   #14
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Default Re: HDFC Ergo Insurance wants to install a travel logging device in my car!

Usage based insurance could be useful for those with multiple cars or with very low usage. All other things being the same, why should a car running 4,000 kms a year pay the same premium as one running 20,000 kms?

Quote:
Originally Posted by reachbennym View Post
I wonder what such a device will infer in Indian city driving conditions
Still can extract a lot of data.

- Number of kms driven
- Driving style (smooth vs aggressive)
- How frequently it visits theft-prone areas
- If speed limit is exceeded & how frequently
- Used more during the day or late at night
- etc.

I agree with Phamilyman. Unless there's an incentive, don't get it installed. Also agree with Phamilyman on the privacy factor. If you're 'connected' in today's world, privacy is a myth.

Last edited by GTO : 13th January 2016 at 12:16.
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Old 13th January 2016, 12:28   #15
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Default Re: HDFC Ergo Insurance wants to install a travel logging device in my car!

Sounds like an interesting initiative, you should ask them these questions upfront:

1. Are you just being used as an experimental test-bed.
2. Will the throughput data affect your running insurance cost.
3. What all data they will actually capture.
4. Will they share the raw and/or analyzed data with you.
5. How exactly will they install the device. (Splicing power cables, using jumpers).
6. Will they bring back your car to the initial state once the device is disengaged.
7. The devices power requirements. Load on your battery. Will it continue to operate even when the car is not on. Any over ride.
8. Will the device geo-log too.
9. How much time investment it requires from your side as an end-user.
10. Are they willing to sign an air tight contract with you.

If they can answer all of the above sufficiently and not squirm around, and the answers seem satisfactory (ie: safe), you can go ahead.
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