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Old 14th December 2017, 21:40   #16
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Exclamation Re: Review: Bajaj Allianz Drivesmart - Insurance with Telematics

I think the insurance companies should initially give discounts on premiums when we opt for such a big intrusion into our private lives. They already know where we live. Now they will also know where we eat, where & when we shop, have a mistress (ahem) and so forth with enough location tracking coupled with big data crunching.

Invariably this data will be shared within the insurance cartel (and that is a question of when than if) like how CIBIL scores are hard checked and linked to interest rates these days; there can never be any scope for negotiation.

Last edited by jpm : 14th December 2017 at 21:42. Reason: cleanup
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Old 15th December 2017, 12:38   #17
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Default Re: Review: Bajaj Allianz Drivesmart - Insurance with Telematics

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rajeevraj View Post
Around a year back, Bajaj Allianz had launched a Drivesmart range of insurance policies which intended to use driving patterns and related data to help drive down insurance costs.
Thanks for compiling this.

I had worked on a similar project in my college. But instead of it being connected to the obd, it had onboard g sensors that could track acceleration and braking. Also has a GPS and GSM module to track and send data over the internet. It was an interesting project to implement. While testing, most of the people who were told about this being in the car, drove cautiously. So such devices are a win.

But the biggest concern is the fact that the savings are not much. I will install this device if the proposed premium is 50+ percent lower than the market. Otherwise there is no incentive for a safe driver. It can also be used in chauffeur driven cars to monitor them as well find out the driver behaviour. I also liked the app which looks simple to use and data is readily available. This one stop interface will be useful to those (like me) who have their cars run by the drivers and don't have the time to daily monitor them.

Currently, we have autocop trackpro on the driver driver car. It has geofence and overspeed alert, but nothing like rash or hard braking information. Recently, the Uber driver's app started showing the driving report. Here is the attached pics including the details on the same.

Review: Bajaj Allianz Drivesmart - Insurance with Telematics-img_1989.png

Review: Bajaj Allianz Drivesmart - Insurance with Telematics-img_1986.png

Review: Bajaj Allianz Drivesmart - Insurance with Telematics-img_1987.png

While Uber mentions that this doesn't have implications on the account for now, I'm pretty sure this data is considered to filter out good/bad drivers:
Review: Bajaj Allianz Drivesmart - Insurance with Telematics-img_1988.png

Quote:
Originally Posted by paragsachania View Post
Heck, I feel this should be smart enough to pick up details based on what road you are driving (City road or expressway) and then capture speeds done within city roads or highways and profile you whether you are a safe driver who abides by rules or not.

A long way to go but certainly a very interesting way to leverage telematics!
+1 Not just insurance, many things can be achieved - eg. understanding traffic patterns, managing signals or toll lanes depending on traffic, real time traffic - the google maps requires your phone to be on, and many more. It will also provide a good way to keep a check the driver of the car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Santoshbhat View Post
To be honest, I don't see why any customer would want to put this leash around their neck? and that too by paying money out of their own pocket.
I for one would not mind it. The catch here is that I should not be the only one in the town - all other motorists (at least the majority) should as well. Today, it is in the trial phase. Maybe a couple of years down the line, they will come out with a very good plan which will save a lot of money on renewals, based on your habits.

Quote:
What if they say the car was driven very rashly for an hour upto that point or if they say you were driving at 120 kph in a 80 kph zone? or that you did not service the car when it was due and compromised on safety (say brake pads were due for replacement) and deny your claim?
Rash is rash, no two ways about it. If you do 120 in an 80 zone, that's risky behaviour. Proper maintenance is also important. I know this seems unfair, but then look at the big picture. We enthusiasts are a handful of the drivers on the road. While we drive sanely, there are many more who are rash. Why do you think there is a discount for being a member of any automobile association on your insurance premium?

Quote:
I also have privacy concerns. The way multiple insurance companies and call centres get hold of our phone numbers and hound us just before renewal due date, I won't be surprised if they start selling this data to interested third parties.
Yes, this is a valid concern. It won't be very difficult to sell your data, monitor your habits, places you frequent etc.

Last edited by blackwasp : 15th December 2017 at 12:40.
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Old 15th December 2017, 14:08   #18
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Default Re: Review: Bajaj Allianz Drivesmart - Insurance with Telematics

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Originally Posted by blackwasp View Post
I for one would not mind it. The catch here is that I should not be the only one in the town - all other motorists (at least the majority) should as well. Today, it is in the trial phase. Maybe a couple of years down the line, they will come out with a very good plan which will save a lot of money on renewals, based on your habits.
If it is mandatory, of course there is no choice, although I don't think that'll ever happen. Only way insurer's can get people to fit it, is by giving a discount. But then just fitting the device does not reduce the risk profile for the insured, so I don't think that is going to happen.

Quote:
Rash is rash, no two ways about it
I don't think I'll be comfortable with a device labelling someone as rash relative to others based on data collected like this. Someone who averages 15 kmph in Bangalore city over say 1000 kms, does not necessarily make him a better driver or less likely to have accidents and insurance claims than someone who averages 25 kmph. Similarly hard acceleration and hard braking need not be signs of rash driving, but good reactions. How does the device decide that its not safe to accelerate hard? Maybe the road ahead is very clear. And I am sure the insurance company wants the driver to brake hard and in time to avoid that collision!!

Quote:
If you do 120 in an 80 zone, that's risky behaviour.
120 kmph is illegal almost everywhere in India. You might as well limit cars with speed governors. That's a debate for some other thread.

Last edited by Santoshbhat : 15th December 2017 at 14:10.
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Old 15th December 2017, 14:29   #19
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Default Re: Review: Bajaj Allianz Drivesmart - Insurance with Telematics

The only way I see people adopting this if there is significant reduction in insurance premium. The customer may be asked to pay one-time for the device but then subsequent year premium should see significant reduction through say, higher NCB for drivers who are demonstrating better driving.

If that is not the case, why would anyone want to be monitored 24x7 when similar such devices are available which allow users to monitor their data themselves.

OT: Surprising to see reasonably positive support for this while we all frown when Aadhaar number is asked to be linked to DL and RC.
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Old 15th December 2017, 19:30   #20
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Default Re: Review: Bajaj Allianz Drivesmart - Insurance with Telematics

Some of the questions asked below had come up in the earlier thread on this topic. At that time Bajaj Allianz had sent a detailed response to GTO for some of the questions/points raised. Here is a link to that post

Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepyhead148 View Post
A timely review @rajeevraj. Rating the thread 5 stars. Just one question (and pardon me if it's a noob one). Is the driver score going to have any serious impact on the premium to be paid from the subsequent year(s)?
Thank you. Unless this becomes a standard or mandated across providers (say by IRDA) which is probably a long long way away even if it happens, there is no way that bad driving behavior can impact premiums. Bajaj themselves say that they will use the data to reward good driving behavior-if they go back on that and try to penalize for 'bad driving' one has to simply move to another provider at the time of renewal. There is no long term binding.

Quote:
Originally Posted by libranof1987 View Post
Great review; thanks for sharing.

Couple of points:

1) Has Bajaj Allianz mentioned how often they will review the data? When they say that premiums could go down based on "good" driving, have they mentioned -
a) what constitutes good behavior. No/maximum permissible flags under RashAccelaration, Sudden Lane Change, Sudden Braking
b) baseline on how many flags allowed per month/quarter/year
Thanks. Nope. Considering that they analysis that one can view in the App is not time restricted (I can pull a report for a day or for a month), I assume they don't need to review periodically. Having said that, they do have a 'Leaderboard' which shows your position based on data for the last week. For example, I was listed as 125th for the last week. How that is arrived at is not clear. Looks like a relative ranking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by libranof1987 View Post
2) While they say they won't penalize drivers on bad driving now; I'd imagine they would once they have a large enough sample size
They would have the data to. But I doubt they can act on it unless all providers are on board on this. I can simply move to another provider at the time of renewal. They can put in a clause that they can use this data to deny claims, but I think that too is some time away.


Quote:
Originally Posted by libranof1987 View Post
4) Having this device in your car perhaps allows you certain features: geo-fencing for example. Is that correct? So, for a small bump in your premium to get this device, you get a very useful anti-theft feature
Yes, there is a Geo Fence. Have described it in the initial post. I suddenly got an alert at 11.30PM yesterday that my car has breached the Geo Fence. Got scared for an instance, then realized i had set the Geo Fence for Mumbai area as a test. But no idea why it decided to check an send alert at night.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ROG_AK View Post
Thank you for the great review. Can the data be used to deny / approve insurance claims?
Thanks. At least as of now No. There is nothing in the policy document that even talks about this device or any action based on the data collected. As per my understanding, the policy document should clearly call out all conditions and exemptions. So if they do attempt to do it, it could be a case for complaint to the IRDA Ombudsman under the point ("Misrepresentation of policy terms and conditions at any time in the policy document or policy contract"). Since this whole thing is fairly new, I don't think it makes sense for Bajaj to go that route.

Quote:
Originally Posted by paragsachania View Post
Thanks for a very informative thread again Rajeev on a subject that is slowly redefining the Automotive industry as a whole - Whether its Insurance or beyond.
Thanks Parag. Good to read your experience on this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bhaskaracs View Post
A very comprehensive review indeed. Thanks for sharing.

A few questions:

Are they charging a hefty premium on the service (and potentially binding a few customers through this device over a 2-3 three year horizon) right at the front? Rewards for better driving due in future are not going to compensate initial excess they charge. I was evaluting this for my 2014m Elantra. In Nov 2016 I bought a zero depreciation Bajaj car insurance policy for nearly 30K. Cut to 2017, i wanted to indulge myself a bit and receievd a DriveSmart quote (all other policy features staying constant) of 39,500 I understand TPP increased by Rs.1200 or so in 2017 and then the GST. But this is still very high considering the 10% lower IDV. I feel this is primarily targetted at policies up for renewal switch to Bajaj, because existing customers can do an apple to apple.
The savings is definitely debatable. There is no 2/3 year lock in period, so one can take a call at the time of renewal if the extra payment was worth in anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TorqueyTechie View Post
Thanks Rajeev for the review. I was not aware of this kind of device in India. Until my stint in US, I used to have a similar device from one of the insurance providers. Based on the feedback from the device, I used to get discounts or my premium used to get bumped up during renewals.
Thank you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Santoshbhat View Post
Thanks Rajeev for the very detailed report. To be honest, I don't see why any customer would want to put this leash around their neck? and that too by paying money out of their own pocket .

Basically the devise allows them to collect all kinds of data about how we drive, where we drive etc.. and they could very easily use it against us to deny a claim. Lets say the car meets with an accident and is a total damage case. What if they say the car was driven very rashly for an hour upto that point or if they say you were driving at 120 kph in a 80 kph zone? or that you did not service the car when it was due and compromised on safety (say brake pads were due for replacement) and deny your claim?

I also have privacy concerns. The way multiple insurance companies and call centres get hold of our phone numbers and hound us just before renewal due date, I won't be surprised if they start selling this data to interested third parties.
Thanks Santosh. Very valid points. At least at this time, I don't think they can use data to deny a claim. If they want to do that, I assume it should be called out in the policy document. Of course, they can use this data and then come up with some other reason. But will end up being counter productive to them is what I think.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Altocumulus View Post
To add to this, I know of someone who has opted for a similar device through his insurance. He was excited initially and then with the above discussion stopped using the device. Guess what, he gets a call from the insurance company to fix it back or they will deny any claim for accidents when the device is not connected.
Was this with the same Drivesmart and Bajaj? If that is the case, it is not a good sign as they clearly call out in their website that if you don't want to use the device at any point, you can disconnect it and return it.
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Old 18th December 2017, 16:29   #21
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Default Re: Review: Bajaj Allianz Drivesmart - Insurance with Telematics

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rajeevraj View Post

Was this with the same Drivesmart and Bajaj? If that is the case, it is not a good sign as they clearly call out in their website that if you don't want to use the device at any point, you can disconnect it and return it.
Nope this was IL Assist by ICICI Lombard.
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Old 19th December 2017, 10:32   #22
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Default Re: Review: Bajaj Allianz Drivesmart - Insurance with Telematics

Wow, it's here in India finally huh? Great write-up.

I had written of my own experiences with Telematics for insuring my car in the US a while back:

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...-snapshot.html (My tryst with Usage Based Insurance - Progressive's telematics device, Snapshot)
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Old 29th December 2017, 10:10   #23
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Default Re: Review: Bajaj Allianz Drivesmart - Insurance with Telematics

Here's an interesting take on the relevance of Telematics in the Indian insurance space by the Chairman of a newly inducted insurance provider:

Quote:
Telematics has not picked up in a big way in any single country that I know of. Second, telematics in India is unlikely to have a major impact on pricing, because of one simple reason: third-party premiums are already fixed by the regulator. Own-damage premiums are going down because of no-claim bonus or as cars get older and their value goes down, the third party premium are standard.
Quote:
I do not know of any country in the world where more than 5% of the cars have telematics. Telematics has been around for more than 10 years now. I am not being biased, I am just sharing my understanding. If you ask any insurance company that offers telematics, they will be reluctant to tell you how many cars have that system, because the number will be very low.
http://www.livemint.com/Money/eO8orL...ing-in-In.html
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Old 17th January 2018, 19:30   #24
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Default Re: Review: Bajaj Allianz Drivesmart - Insurance with Telematics

Been around a month and a half since I plugged in the device and while the actual called out benefit of reduced premiums is a fair way away, have been using it to track my trips and the other parameters it throws up, more from a curiosity perspective.

Yesterday had a more relevant use when I sent my car for service (via a third party service assist company). Had told the SA that the GPS device is connected, but nothing about what info it captures. Apart from the location, was also able to monitor whether any other alerts like 'Rash Brakes', 'Sudden Lane Change' were raised. There were a couple, but nothing out of the ordinary.

Apart from this, have been noticing some discrepancies in the distance calculations, but need to validate a bit more.

Last edited by Rajeevraj : 17th January 2018 at 19:33.
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Old 23rd January 2018, 12:14   #25
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Smile Re: Review: Bajaj Allianz Drivesmart - Insurance with Telematics

Would like to share this news from UK where the availability of Telematics device in the car exposed a claim fraud.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/insurance...ht-telematics/

The way the Third party claims in India is being on an exponential rise, it will not be far that IRDA makes it mandatory for every vehicle in the country to have Telematic devices to be installed to monitor the claims requests raised. Cannot say whether this would be a good thing or not.
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Old 17th June 2018, 21:05   #26
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Default Re: Review: Bajaj Allianz Drivesmart - Insurance with Telematics

my car insurance is up for renewal and ICICI is trying to upsell its telematics device with the benefits (pic). Difference in insurance amount with and without telematics device comes to around 2.6K.

Review: Bajaj Allianz Drivesmart - Insurance with Telematics-screen-shot-20180617-9.01.42-pm.png

Do you folks think its worth it? Although am inquisitive about it, worried about personal data access and sharing...what are your thoughts folks?
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Old 18th June 2018, 10:45   #27
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Default Re: Review: Bajaj Allianz Drivesmart - Insurance with Telematics

Just a note to potential note owners of such devices. I kept my obd scanner plugged for a long time ~ 2-3 weeks and started getting errors on the mid (Airbag error). It went way once I unplugged it and restarted the car.
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Old 19th June 2018, 08:57   #28
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Red face Insurance with Telematics hits a road block

It seems Telematics based Insurance has hit a road block with fixed pricing laws by IRDA and lack of data protection by the Telematics Insurance offering companies/start ups. Moreover the high cost of the devices also is playing a spoil sport in the otherwise a good initiative to price the Insurance premium based on the driving habits.

Quote:
But the Insurance Regulatory and Development Authority’s (IRDA) regulations on pricing of insurance products, high cost of tracking devices, and lack of well-defined data protection rules, are hindering development of digitised insurance products, according to legal and industry experts.

For instance, the variable premium pricing, widely known as “pay-as-you-go”, cannot be implemented in India since IRDA’s regulations only allows fixed premium pricing. With such a regulation, insurers in India who use telematics are only offering discounts on the final premium, instead of pricing the product variably on the basis of vehicle usage.

Telematics involves acquiring real-time data, using sensors fitted to the vehicle, and transmitting it wirelessly using telecom networks and other wireless mediums. The technology is mostly used in road safety, electrical engineering, and computers.
https://www.livemint.com/Industry/ac...ack-of-da.html
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Old 19th June 2018, 10:49   #29
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Default Re: Review: Bajaj Allianz Drivesmart - Insurance with Telematics

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Originally Posted by ghodlur View Post
Would like to share this news from UK where the availability of Telematics device in the car exposed a claim fraud.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/insurance...ht-telematics/
.
This is little more ahead in claims investigation.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/insuranc...rive-make-pay/
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Old 19th June 2018, 10:58   #30
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Default Re: Review: Bajaj Allianz Drivesmart - Insurance with Telematics

In India nothing can beat a hard negotiation and competition to get the best quote for your car insurance. Bajaj Allianz may be giving similar or may be more discount to its direct channel partners and new car insurance through web sales. This will continue with no embargo on new entrants and continued high growth in car sales. Telematics can be kept aside for time being.
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