Vehicle Insurance

[ravradha]

Private insurers like Bajaj Alliance flatly refused to insure my '94 M800. National Insurance did it with no questions asked.

Vehicle has no accident record and is in good condition. Bajaj openly admit that risk to premium ratio does not make business sense for them. The agents have been advised not to encourage customers with >5 year vehicles (unless it is a renewal).

It makes sense to go with General insurers like National as a few years down the line you will not face a problem. Infact the service at National was pretty fast. It took only 45 minutes - from the time I submitted the form till I got the insurance.

[GTO]

Thats a new one....How can an insurance company refuse coverage on a customers car?

Good to know you were finally happy with National.

[F50]

Originally Posted by GTO

How can an insurance company refuse coverage on a customers car?

Funda is simple, no loss making proposal. Bajaj Allianz do not accept cars which are older than 10 years because the risk increases.

You can get your more than 10 yr old car done by two ways:

1. If its renewal as rightly pointed by ravradha it accepts upto 15 yrs.
2. Your major business is with that company as in Fire, Motor etc etc then they consider taking it.

[abdul 65 amg]

what are rates for executive cars like mercedes-benz E class , S Class , BMW 5 series and 7 series?

[sandeep108]

The rates will see a change from January 2007. Unfortunately, IRDA is yet laying down third party liability premium rates solely based on engine capacity: Private car <1000cc - 670, 1000-1500cc 800 and >1500cc - 2,500. What does engine capacity have to do with accident fatalities? On the contrary, the higher the engine capacity, usually the better the car with better brakes, ABS, etc. As if on our roads an 1600cc car can go faster than a 1200cc car. Or is it usual political mentality?

This will hit entire 1600-1800cc segment quite hard as earlier rate was about 600. Do they mean to say that they have statistics indicating higher rate of accidents from >1500cc private cars? If so, most likely it is the private cars running as taxis (sumo/qualis/tavera/innova/skoda) contributing to this. Also, if an alto hits a jaywalker, does that mean he will be less injured, than say a merc?

I would have no objection if the premium rates were laid down based on class of use - private 4 wheeler, private 2 wheeler, 3 wheeler, taxi, goods carriage, etc. As usual in India, the honest suffer. I hope somebody will file a petition against such unfair increase in TP rates.

[ravibhat]

I agree that point Sandeep, Its unfortunate calculation unless there is something we didn't understand the exact rates to be applicable.

Regards,

Ravi.

[F50]

Originally Posted by sandeep108

The rates will see a change from January 2007. Unfortunately, IRDA is yet laying down third party liability premium rates solely based on engine capacity: Private car <1000cc - 670, 1000-1500cc 800 and >1500cc - 2,500. What does engine capacity have to do with accident fatalities? On the contrary, the higher the engine capacity, usually the better the car with better brakes, ABS, etc. As if on our roads an 1600cc car can go faster than a 1200cc car. Or is it usual political mentality?

Its goes like this:
Bigger the engine capacity faster the car becomes. Agree?
Faster the car, reaction time reduces. Agree?
All are not wanna be F1 drivers so once the reaction time reduces close shaves are bound to result into accidents.
So on. I dont want to go further. So this is what they keep in mind while fixing rates.

[danlalan]

defending your company ha....good good...ive got a small problem...i bought a used ikon it had comp insurance on it which is valid till march 2008...but the insurance hasnt been transfered on my name...its still for the earlier owner...there is a charge of 2000 odd to transfer it...should i leave it the way it is and get a new insurance (comp) when this one ends...or should i transfer it now...

[sandeep108]

Originally Posted by F50

Its goes like this:
Bigger the engine capacity faster the car becomes. Agree?
Faster the car, reaction time reduces. Agree?
All are not wanna be F1 drivers so once the reaction time reduces close shaves are bound to result into accidents.
So on. I dont want to go further. So this is what they keep in mind while fixing rates.

Very poor justification, f50. I do not agree. But look at traffic conditions also - at average speed of 15-20kmph in cities all cars are equal. On highway, it is not as if seeing a pedestrian, bigger car will accelerate faster. Maximum cause of accidents at night are due to bad overtaking, stationary trucks, wrong side driving, bad roads, nothing to do with bigger engine capacity. The engine capacity is only matched mostly to weight, so it is only marginally faster.

There are so many factors involved, not only engine capacity. e.g. a badly maintained small car can have bald tires and worn out brakes and is more likely to have an accident. So maintenance also plays an important part.

Why is not IRDA/insurance cos. transparent in fixing rates? On the contrary, the bigger the car, the private owner is more careful, 99% of the time. Just take an indica close to an accord/corolla/merc and see, they will immediately give way since any minor damage also is very expensive to repair. I have very rarely seen any of the bigger cars being driven rashly in Mumbai.

As I said, let them show statistics that private cars have more accidents, causing more injuries/fatalities then I will accept. WIAA has already issued a press release asking why there is such huge unjustified increase in rates of bigger private cars having hardly any claims, even more than commercial vehicles (which cause the maximum claims).

[iraghava]

Originally Posted by sandeep108

As I said, let them show statistics that private cars have more accidents, causing more injuries/fatalities then I will accept. WIAA has already issued a press release asking why there is such huge unjustified increase in rates of bigger private cars having hardly any claims, even more than commercial vehicles (which cause the maximum claims).

Another major problem is the number of vehicles being registered as private use vehicles & then being used as taxis. These vehicles therefore save on Road Tax & Insurance while jacking up the claims numbers. Most of the time a lot of such cars are poorly driven by poorly trained drivers who lack awareness about basic rules & safety on the road.

[F50]

Originally Posted by sandeep108

Very poor justification, f50.

It was not my cooked up story.

Originally Posted by sandeep108

I do not agree. But look at traffic conditions also - at average speed of 15-20kmph in cities all cars are equal.

So? Accidents happen on their own. Even at the speeds of 20 or 120.
You tell me why it is being categorized into below 1000cc, 1000cc to 1500cc and above 1500cc?

Originally Posted by sandeep108

On highway, it is not as if seeing a pedestrian, bigger car will accelerate faster. Maximum cause of accidents at night are due to bad overtaking, stationary trucks, wrong side driving, bad roads, nothing to do with bigger engine capacity. The engine capacity is only matched mostly to weight, so it is only marginally faster.

You show me one Octavia, Accord or Corolla which are willing to drive below 100 on lovely highways such as NH8 etc.

Originally Posted by sandeep108

There are so many factors involved, not only engine capacity. e.g. a badly maintained small car can have bald tires and worn out brakes and is more likely to have an accident. So maintenance also plays an important part.

Yes, thats why all companies do not accept all cars.

Originally Posted by sandeep108

Why is not IRDA/insurance cos. transparent in fixing rates? On the contrary, the bigger the car, the private owner is more careful, 99% of the time. Just take an indica close to an accord/corolla/merc and see, they will immediately give way since any minor damage also is very expensive to repair. I have very rarely seen any of the bigger cars being driven rashly in Mumbai.

They have to be very careful its obvious. Not only bigger car owners but small as well, no one messes with taxis or buses because taxis costs not more than 10,000 and bus driver has no responsibility to take care of the bus. Whatever happens we will be in loss not they.

All persons are not the same hence IRDA/Insurance companies cannot quote Insurance differently to each person. Just because some of the "bigger" car owners drive slowly they should be charged less premium.

[sandeep108]

Originally Posted by F50

It was not my cooked up story.

You tried to justify the rating basis.

Originally Posted by F50

So? Accidents happen on their own. Even at the speeds of 20 or 120. You tell me why it is being categorized into below 1000cc, 1000cc to 1500cc and above 1500cc?

That is exactly the same point I am making, since third party liability premium has very little or nothing to do with engine capacity.

Originally Posted by F50

You show me one Octavia, Accord or Corolla which are willing to drive below 100 on lovely highways such as NH8 etc.

I do see quite a few and I also see santros/indicas driving at 100. But Octavia, Accord, Corolla all have better brakes and can stop in shorter distance from 100 than santro/indica, so chance of fatal accident is less.

Originally Posted by F50

Yes, thats why all companies do not accept all cars.

No comment, it should be up to each co. to accept what they want. My rant is only on the basis of fixing TP premium rates on sole basis of engine capacity which is absurd.

Originally Posted by F50

They have to be very careful its obvious. Not only bigger car owners but small as well, no one messes with taxis or buses because taxis costs not more than 10,000 and bus driver has no responsibility to take care of the bus. Whatever happens we will be in loss not they.

So then now you admit engine capacity has nothing to do with accidents?

Originally Posted by F50

All persons are not the same hence IRDA/Insurance companies cannot quote Insurance differently to each person. Just because some of the "bigger" car owners drive slowly they should be charged less premium.

I am not saying premiums can be fixed individually, it may be ideal but impractical, but surely if they are fixing categories, then there should be some logic as to the basis. If the 'bigger' car owners as a group drive more carefully and have less accidents, then why should they not get benefit of lower premium? That is the whole purpose of detariffing. But now just because an aveo or fiesta is 1600cc, that means a TP premium of almost 3 times that of a 1400cc aveo or fiesta.

[F50]

Originally Posted by sandeep108

You tried to justify the rating basis.

Im not justifying it Sir. Im saying what is followed.

Originally Posted by sandeep108

That is exactly the same point I am making, since third party liability premium has very little or nothing to do with engine capacity.

Then what? You explain me.

Originally Posted by sandeep108

I do see quite a few and I also see santros/indicas driving at 100. But Octavia, Accord, Corolla all have better brakes and can stop in shorter distance from 100 than santro/indica, so chance of fatal accident is less.

So from now on if you have ABS your premium will come down a bit.
"Bigger" cars finally getting some off somewhere.

Originally Posted by sandeep108

So then now you admit engine capacity has nothing to do with accidents?

No i dont.

Originally Posted by sandeep108

I am not saying premiums can be fixed individually, it may be ideal but impractical, but surely if they are fixing categories, then there should be some logic as to the basis. If the 'bigger' car owners as a group drive more carefully and have less accidents, then why should they not get benefit of lower premium? That is the whole purpose of detariffing. But now just because an aveo or fiesta is 1600cc, that means a TP premium of almost 3 times that of a 1400cc aveo or fiesta.

What according to you should be the ideal categories?
And what is the defination of bigger car? For Santro owners Baleno is bigger and for Baleno owners Accord is bigger.

a) Drunken driver in Merc E Class (was it?) met with accident on Marine Drive.
b) Recent one at Bandstand. Car was Corolla?
c) People were crushed by a Land Cruiser outside bakery in Bandra.
d) 2 people were killed at Kalanagar, Bandra. The car was Tata Indigo.
e) Kids sneaked out in Ikon, was found in 2 pieces at Worli Sea Face.

I hope you trying to get a small pattern what im trying to show.
All these cars can go upto good amount of speeds.
Faster the car gets difficult it gets to handle.
Engine Capacity??!! Cubic Capacity!!??

[sandeep108]

I am sorry F50, I do not feel upto replying to various contradictions in your posts, maybe I am wrong, maybe other posters can reply.

[elf]

Insurance companies operate on the basis of a profit to claims disbursement ratio. They value claim-less customers because they're simply collecting money from them & increasing their profits. Existing customers who make claims over a certain percentage are subsequently dumped due to never admitted profitability issues, & reasons are ascribed to the protective small print on your insurance agreement.

Globally, they're also known to scalp the living heck out of customers, especially for 'older' cars & so called 'high risk' drivers (18-25yrs, male, colour preference for vehicle, etc).

From this month onward it's going to be quite simple - here too, the insurance companies will catch up with their global counterparts & start charging customers on a perceptibly illogical basis. I don't see a day too far away in India, when a 22 year old shall have to pay a premium of 70% above that paid by a 35 year old for exactly the same vehicle. 'High risk', you see...