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Old 20th May 2013, 12:24   #2446
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Question Re: Automobile Insurance Queries? Ask me

Hi,

Last week, my car (ford flair, 2005, Petrol) had a very bad accident on highway while trying to save biker coming on wrong side. Bikers were saved but car crashed to divider and almost smashed. Fortunately, I was spared unharmed (yes, absolutely no harm. I wore seat belt as a mtter of practice).

I had auto insurance with BA and I paid additional premium to increase IDV which is at 470000/- (car was used vaery sparingly, It ran 80,000km only in its life time ands was well maintained.). For all these years, I was paying high premium to keep maximum IDV.

When car moved to workshop, Ford gave estimation which is 5,60,000/-. What are the options I have? Will I be paid IDV? My surveyor seems to be rumbling words around market value and close to 50% amount that I have to pay in the event we go foer repair.

When I looked at the BA policy contract wording, it says the following

1) IDV is the market value of the car in case of Total Loss or Constructive total Loss.

2) Constructive Total Loss declared when Cost of Repairs is more than 75% of IDV.

Looking at the car status, I prefer going for Total Loss and then buy a new car. What are the tricks BA people will play? What should be the startegy that I must adapt?

I appreciate your advice and suggestions

Thanks in advance
Shy

P.S: I miss my car somuch. Thank you ford, for the wonderful design and for saving my life.
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Old 20th May 2013, 14:11   #2447
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shyam29june View Post
I had auto insurance with BA and I paid additional premium to increase IDV which is at 470000/- (car was used vaery sparingly, It ran 80,000km only in its life time ands was well maintained.). For all these years, I was paying high premium to keep maximum IDV.

When car moved to workshop, Ford gave estimation which is 5,60,000/-. What are the options I have? Will I be paid IDV? My surveyor seems to be rumbling words around market value and close to 50% amount that I have to pay in the event we go foer repair.

When I looked at the BA policy contract wording, it says the following

1) IDV is the market value of the car in case of Total Loss or Constructive total Loss.

2) Constructive Total Loss declared when Cost of Repairs is more than 75% of IDV.

Looking at the car status, I prefer going for Total Loss and then buy a new car. What are the tricks BA people will play? What should be the startegy that I must adapt?
Shyam,

Its good to know that you have come out of this episode unharmed, I expect the same about the other occupants if any. Since the cost of repair is more than the IDV oof the car, by default the car will be declared a total loss. In this case you are eligible to receive the full IDV. Tell BA clearly that this is a case of total loss and you will not accept anything less than the IDV of the car. They might come up with lot of excuses and offer you a lot of options but stick to your decision.

For reference I have attached a thread one of the BHPians has written when his car was totalled.
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...loss-case.html (My Experience with Royal Sundaram Insurance (Total Loss Case))
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Old 20th May 2013, 14:55   #2448
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Any insurance company will pay just the IDV as per their table, according to the make and model ib case of total loss. Therefore it is meaningless to declare a higher IDV and pay more premium.
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Old 20th May 2013, 15:18   #2449
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Originally Posted by Gansan View Post
Any insurance company will pay just the IDV as per their table, according to the make and model ib case of total loss. Therefore it is meaningless to declare a higher IDV and pay more premium.
+1 to that. However the insurance co is bound to pay the customer the IDV value in case of total loss as mentioned in the Insurance certificate. They encourage customers to go in for a higher IDV which means an increase in premium amount but later hassle for the amount to be paid in case there is a total loss. This is simply double standards.
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Old 20th May 2013, 16:49   #2450
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Originally Posted by sschivate View Post
Does anyone have an experience with Toyota insurance? A salesperson from the dealer's offshoot is pestering me with calls. Their quote is reasonable - not way off from the competitors, and they claim a hassle-free experience for a claim on Toyota vehicle. Some small freebies are added, too, but they will not make much of a difference on the deal.

I have mostly made up my mind, but I wanted to check with the friends here before I draw out the cheque...

Thanks!
+1.I have almost finalized the purchase of a Toyota Etios VD and the SA is pushing for the Toyota insurance saying its hassle-free.He has quoted Rs.30,730 for the zero depreciation/'bumper to bumper' coverage.Inputs from fellow members will be deeply appreciated.

Last edited by Dr.Nishath : 20th May 2013 at 17:05.
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Old 20th May 2013, 17:27   #2451
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gansan View Post
Any insurance company will pay just the IDV as per their table, according to the make and model ib case of total loss. Therefore it is meaningless to declare a higher IDV and pay more premium.

Thanks a ton for the quick reply.

A reprasentative from BA had just called me and asked me if I want to go for repair and I rejected his proposal. He was telling me that, the estimation given by ford includes body shell (costs around 1,70,000/-) and it is not covered in insurance. I did not understand his logic. He also said that car IDV is too high. (I dont care a bit for his argumant. They should have thought about this in all these years when they were collecting hefty premium from me)

I just referred the car-policy-wording document (also attached in this post) which is at BA website. It clearly states

ON Page 2 UNDER SECTION "SUM INSURED - INSURED'S DECLARED VALUE (IDV)", it clearly states the following (numbered from 1-4 for our reference)

1) The IDV of the vehicle will be deemed to be the 'SUM INSURED' for the purpose of this policy whcih is fixed to the commencement of each policy period for the insured vehicle.

...

2) IDV of the vehicles beyond 5 years of age and of obsolete models of the vehicles is to be determined on the basis of understanding between insurer and and insured.

....

3) IDV shall be treated as the "Market Value" throughout the policy period without any further depreciation for the purpose of the total loss/ constructive total loss claims

4) The insured vehicle shall be treated as a CTL if the aggregate cost of retrieval and /or repair of the vehicle, subject to terms and consitions of the policy, exceeds 75% of the IDV of the vehicle.


To getout from item number (3), BA reprasentatiove told me that, outer shell is not covered in insurance. I asked him to send me the document whcih states as such. (Is there really anything as such ? I invite clarifications). Even in such case, total cost of repair is well above 75% of IDV.


He referred me to talk to principal surveyor of BA. Are there any inputs from experts before I talk to him.


Also attached the pic of car at accident spot. I was the only one in car and driving. There were no injuries to any one.

Thanks alot in advance
Shyam


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Last edited by Rudra Sen : 22nd May 2013 at 13:14.
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Old 20th May 2013, 17:38   #2452
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Originally Posted by ghodlur View Post
Shyam,

Its good to know that you have come out of this episode unharmed, I expect the same about the other occupants if any. Since the cost of repair is more than the IDV oof the car, by default the car will be declared a total loss. In this case you are eligible to receive the full IDV. Tell BA clearly that this is a case of total loss and you will not accept anything less than the IDV of the car. They might come up with lot of excuses and offer you a lot of options but stick to your decision.

For reference I have attached a thread one of the BHPians has written when his car was totalled.
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...loss-case.html (My Experience with Royal Sundaram Insurance (Total Loss Case))
I was the only one in car when it met accident. No one was harmed in the accident. Thank you.

I had gone thru the link and its very informaive. I will stick to my decision. What is the typical time frame required to get the issue to closure? Just want to keep things ready until for such period.

Thanks a lot for the reply and support.
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Old 20th May 2013, 17:45   #2453
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Nishath View Post
+1.I have almost finalized the purchase of a Toyota Etios VD and the SA is pushing for the Toyota insurance saying its hassle-free.He has quoted Rs.30,730 for the zero depreciation/'bumper to bumper' coverage.Inputs from fellow members will be deeply appreciated.
Try to take the Insurance from outside on your own instead from the dealer. Dealers are known to overcharge the Insurance premium. Try doing an online comparison of the quotes from various Insurers and negotiate with Toyota armed with the information.
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Old 21st May 2013, 12:17   #2454
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Update
=====

I just spoke to surveyor from BA and he told me (and also sent me a mail) that

1) All estimates are 30% above the actual cost of repair
2) Bosy shell is not covered as part of insurance.
3) 40% Depreciation is applicable on my vehicle (on top of IDV)

He had tried to instruct Ford people to start repairs. Thankfully they called me and I asked not to do so.

Guys, Please help. Is there anything true in in the arguments made by BA?

If I am not happy with what he says, then what is my next escalation point.

Thanks in advance
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Old 22nd May 2013, 13:41   #2455
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Default Re: Automobile Insurance Queries? Ask me

Quote:
Originally Posted by shyam29june View Post
Update
=====

I just spoke to surveyor from BA and he told me (and also sent me a mail) that

1) All estimates are 30% above the actual cost of repair
2) Bosy shell is not covered as part of insurance.
3) 40% Depreciation is applicable on my vehicle (on top of IDV)

He had tried to instruct Ford people to start repairs. Thankfully they called me and I asked not to do so.

Guys, Please help. Is there anything true in in the arguments made by BA?

If I am not happy with what he says, then what is my next escalation point.

Thanks in advance
Shyam, Bajaj Allianz is taking you for a ride. There is no such as "body shell is not covered under insurance." Ask him some stupid questions like, how much extra premium to cover the radiator, the horn etc.

1. What I feel is, your IDV of 470,000/- is working against you for total loss. And can you post the estimate given to you by Bajaj Allianz? If the cost is not exceeding 70% they wont approve for Total Loss.

2. What according to you should be the current market value of this car? Also mention the Mfg year. 470k is too high.

3. If they are not ready for total loss you can opt for Cash Loss.

In cash loss scenario, the company will pay your certain amount of your total IDV and allows you to keep the car.

Now, two things can be done:

a) Example: BA pays you 250,000/- and the car. You can salvage the car and get additional 100,000/-

b) Take the 250,000/- and get it repaired. Sell or drive it.

Rs. 250,000/- & Rs. 100,000/- is just a hypothetical figure, I have not calculated it.
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Old 22nd May 2013, 16:23   #2456
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F50 View Post
Shyam, Bajaj Allianz is taking you for a ride. There is no such as "body shell is not covered under insurance." Ask him some stupid questions like, how much extra premium to cover the radiator, the horn etc.

1. What I feel is, your IDV of 470,000/- is working against you for total loss. And can you post the estimate given to you by Bajaj Allianz? If the cost is not exceeding 70% they wont approve for Total Loss. .
I understand that the IDV is very high when comparred to actual market value but it is BA who gave me the option to declare such IDV and I paid premium for that for last few years. Its time for Bajaj Allianz to prove that they really respect their policy document word by word.

The estimated repairs cost given by Ford is Rs.5,61,000/- whcih is very much exceeding entire IDV. Therefore claim should be considered as CTL/TL.


Quote:
Originally Posted by F50 View Post
2. What according to you should be the current market value of this car? Also mention the Mfg year. 470k is too high.
Manufacturing year is 2005. I do not know the exact market value but yes, 470k is too high. But as I said before, Its BA who gave me option to declare such high IDV. Every dog has its time and now its mine.


Quote:
Originally Posted by F50 View Post
3. If they are not ready for total loss you can opt for Cash Loss.

In cash loss scenario, the company will pay your certain amount of your total IDV and allows you to keep the car.
Why should I consider this option when I can claim total IDV as per policy. Legally, Does BA has the option to offer this scenario? How does BA can offer discount to its own responsibility when they collected full premium from me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by F50 View Post
Now, two things can be done:

a) Example: BA pays you 250,000/- and the car. You can salvage the car and get additional 100,000/-

b) Take the 250,000/- and get it repaired. Sell or drive it.

Rs. 250,000/- & Rs. 100,000/- is just a hypothetical figure, I have not calculated it.
Since estimated repair value is opver 5,50,000/- I do not see any reason to get it repaired. Rather I prefer buying a new car and I am already exploring market for different models and options.

Update
=====

I had emailed BA surveyor to provide next level escalation contact details and he did not respond to that part of my question.

Today afternoon, I logged mycase at BA online grievances forum.

I have enough time to fight. and I am not going to give-up.
I am working on buying a new car (Again Sedan ) and I do not have any pressing needs on the insurance money I am going to get from BA. If required, I can get media attention (it is very easy for me and channel news people will have something new to chew for entire day). Are there any other ways to make the battle more interesting.

End of the day, I do not want insurance companies to lure people with unrealistic IDVs and take hefty premiums. If they do, then they must honor their customer and pay IDV without crying.
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Old 22nd May 2013, 17:28   #2457
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shyam29june View Post
End of the day, I do not want insurance companies to lure people with unrealistic IDVs and take hefty premiums. If they do, then they must honor their customer and pay IDV without crying.
+1 to whatever you have said. If the insurance company is not ready to honour the IDV when required, it is not correct on its part to charge a higher premium for higher IDV.
You can approach the IRDA/ Ombudsman in case BA does not honour the commitment or tries to wriggle out.
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Old 22nd May 2013, 18:15   #2458
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Default Re: Automobile Insurance Queries? Ask me

Got to know about an Insurance company by name 'Magma' through a friend of mine. Need to know if any fellow buddies had any experience with them.

Their website: http://magma-hdi.co.in/

Thanks in advance.
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Old 22nd May 2013, 19:20   #2459
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shyam29june View Post
I understand that the IDV is very high when comparred to actual market value but it is BA who gave me the option to declare such IDV and I paid premium for that for last few years. Its time for Bajaj Allianz to prove that they really respect their policy document word by word.

End of the day, I do not want insurance companies to lure people with unrealistic IDVs and take hefty premiums. If they do, then they must honor their customer and pay IDV without crying.
I checked the value of the car in the used car valuation of carwale.com (general barometer). It comes to around 1,25,000 for a excellent condition car. Please don't mistake me for asking, but what was the reasoning behind going for a higher IDV than the market price of the vehicle? Why pay more premium when you could have paid lesser over the years.

Wouldn't the insurance company think that someone would deliberately create a accident and & claim insurance for the higher IDV. AFAIK, while calculating the total loss for a car its either the IDV or the market value whichever is lesser that is taken into consideration.

For e.g someone may purposefully reduce the IDV value to pay a reduced premium, in that case even if the market value is higher the insurance company would obviously pay only the IDV value.
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Old 22nd May 2013, 22:08   #2460
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Originally Posted by anandtheleo View Post
AFAIK, while calculating the total loss for a car its either the IDV or the market value whichever is lesser that is taken into consideration.
That does not sound logical to me. Reasons being:
1. Market value is subjective, it depends on the assessor, there is no yardstick. So it's open to debate.
2. If I know that my car's market value in less than the year-on-year percentage reduction of the IDV and if your statement is true, I would just opt for lower insured value and save on premium. This scenario is true in my case wherein IDV exceeds 3 lakh but I am getting quotes less than 2 lakh. No, the IDV is not inflated.
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