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Old 10th June 2009, 15:35   #76
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Originally Posted by ravikn View Post
@the_DON,

Right step would be to issue a notice from the consumer court and they will automatically start responding to all your questions. They are just trying to frustrate you so that you give up at the end. Teach them a lesson and we are all with you
I think this would be a wrong steep.

Till now what they have said is they have to see the engine then they will take a call, that's it.

I think insurance company has also understood that they have to pay this claim they are just testing our patience.

We just need to be patient.
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Old 10th June 2009, 20:49   #77
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Thumbs up Stunning, interesting but positive surprises !!

... and so I was present when Spectra planned to open the engine. When I reached there they had already removed the engine and gearbox out of the engine bay. The engine head was then opened in front of me and the asst. works manager. Its a preety tough job to open those screws. I could hear the distinctive clinks each time each of the screws were opened. I believe the screws cant be reused because it did sound like something was breaking each time it opened. Spectra Thane had to source the special tool kit for the diesel engine. It seems they share such niche tools across their workshops.

So the big Surprise/Relief is that there is absolutely no damage to any internal parts. The piston and bore is perfect and there is no visible damage to the valves either. Most importantly the valve and piston directly below the broken section of the cam was also unharmed. I was not expecting any engine seizure anyways since I had stopped the vehicle immediately.

One thing he mentioned today is that even the cam sensor got damaged (costing around 9k) - its a small sensor which reads the cam position. So as of the now the damages are restricted to the cam.

Mr rjvora accompanies me today and we had a word with the surveyor (Royal Sundaram) as well - He was sent for specifically my car and he took pics etc. He said they will reply in a day or two.

Am attaching the pics i took today. Also, he mentioned there are no camshaft bearings in a diesel engine.

Oil sump & strainer : In the second and third last pics you can clearly see the damage cause by the stone on the oil sump. Also i told the senior mechanic to show where the oil strainer sits and the damage caused to it (second last pic). You can see the oil sump indentation which broke the strainer immediately. He specifically mentioned that it is a very bad route of cost saving by Maruti since they should have at least provided a metal oil strainer. He said the strainer is in a very vulnerable place and even a small hit could easily break it since its made of plastic.

The last pic is of the senior mechanic hand turning the pistons to check the piston movements and bore. It was perfect with no damage. Even the valves were absolutely perfect with no signs of any contact with the piston. They said that they would still have to send the valves for testing for hairline damages etc where they will ascertain it being 100% perfect setting. He said its essential for such high compression engines.

Summary: I questioned the asst. works manager as to how there is no damage to the valves. piston if the cam broke ? (Not that I am complaining). As per him, after the hit to the oil sump and overheating of the cam a hairline fracture must have developed. (Maybe thats why i didn't feel anything wrong at the time of shutting the engine). After the car was at his workshop and repaired and when they tried starting it, then it must have cracked. It again proves to anyone who has any doubt, that I had not driven the car after the accident. Else there would have been damage to the pistons etc dude to them seizing. I hope things are clear for the insurance company as well. All this seems to be some freak, unlucky accident. Bad place, bad thing in a bad way at a bad time !!
Attached Thumbnails
Swift Dzrie Vdi Rightful Insurance claim denied - Beware of Royal Sundaram CHEATERS !-100620091423.jpg  

Swift Dzrie Vdi Rightful Insurance claim denied - Beware of Royal Sundaram CHEATERS !-100620091424.jpg  

Swift Dzrie Vdi Rightful Insurance claim denied - Beware of Royal Sundaram CHEATERS !-100620091428.jpg  

Swift Dzrie Vdi Rightful Insurance claim denied - Beware of Royal Sundaram CHEATERS !-100620091426.jpg  

Swift Dzrie Vdi Rightful Insurance claim denied - Beware of Royal Sundaram CHEATERS !-100620091427.jpg  

Swift Dzrie Vdi Rightful Insurance claim denied - Beware of Royal Sundaram CHEATERS !-100620091429.jpg  

Swift Dzrie Vdi Rightful Insurance claim denied - Beware of Royal Sundaram CHEATERS !-100620091430.jpg  

Swift Dzrie Vdi Rightful Insurance claim denied - Beware of Royal Sundaram CHEATERS !-100620091431.jpg  

Swift Dzrie Vdi Rightful Insurance claim denied - Beware of Royal Sundaram CHEATERS !-100620091433.jpg  

Swift Dzrie Vdi Rightful Insurance claim denied - Beware of Royal Sundaram CHEATERS !-100620091434.jpg  

Swift Dzrie Vdi Rightful Insurance claim denied - Beware of Royal Sundaram CHEATERS !-100620091443.jpg  

Swift Dzrie Vdi Rightful Insurance claim denied - Beware of Royal Sundaram CHEATERS !-100620091444.jpg  

Swift Dzrie Vdi Rightful Insurance claim denied - Beware of Royal Sundaram CHEATERS !-100620091446.jpg  


Last edited by ThE_DoN : 10th June 2009 at 20:59.
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Old 10th June 2009, 21:39   #78
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Well Congrats sir. Now that re-affirms my belief that your cam has indeed been changed at the workshop!

Either way, you should be covered under insurance for the cam crack!
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Old 10th June 2009, 22:25   #79
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I do not believe the bull about the camshaft and hairline crack!
There has been foul play at the workshop!
Do not believe anything these rascals are trying to make you believe!
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Old 10th June 2009, 23:10   #80
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I do not believe the bull about the camshaft and hairline crack!
There has been foul play at the workshop!
Do not believe anything these rascals are trying to make you believe!
After the post of the photos of the pistons and the valves I am 100%sure that the Maruti guys bungled big time or the fellows exchanged your camshaft. Only GOD can break the cam shaft and not damage the piston and valves in a running engine which is of the interference type. Take all the photos you can. If the Royal Sundaram guys do not comply you will need these photos in the consumer court. I think the Skoda fever is spreading to Maruti as well. Sorry state of affairs and I pity you DON. Congratulations to rjvora for sharing your sorrows and accompanying you. How I wish there were more people like Vora with the helping nature. Don let this chance meeting with rjvora blossom. I firmly believe GOD never ever makes chance meetings.

Last edited by drpullockaran : 10th June 2009 at 23:15.
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Old 10th June 2009, 23:25   #81
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I told you that the dealer is trying to cover it up in my earlier post in this thread.
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Old 11th June 2009, 09:18   #82
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Originally Posted by drpullockaran View Post
Congratulations to rjvora for sharing your sorrows and accompanying you. How I wish there were more people like Vora with the helping nature. Don let this chance meeting with rjvora blossom. I firmly believe GOD never ever makes chance meetings.
Thank you for such a kind word's.

I am doing only one thing that is "Sharing of what I have".
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Old 11th June 2009, 09:31   #83
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If in this interference type engine the pistons and valves are OK for all the cylinders, there is something fishy. May be thats why they were keen on involving insurance from beginning.

The camshaft must have rotated before getting sheared. From images its clear that the damage is out of shearing. If it rotated, obviously, how come pistons are not damaged along with valves.

There is very thin line for the dealer to prove exactly what can cause such damage. Contact Maruti for higher assistance. Ask them to send an engineer to check this damage. This move will rectify all the confusions.
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Old 11th June 2009, 10:19   #84
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Originally Posted by drpullockaran View Post
After the post of the photos of the pistons and the valves I am 100%sure that the Maruti guys bungled big time or the fellows exchanged your camshaft. Only GOD can break the cam shaft and not damage the piston and valves in a running engine which is of the interference type. Take all the photos you can. If the Royal Sundaram guys do not comply you will need these photos in the consumer court. I think the Skoda fever is spreading to Maruti as well. Sorry state of affairs and I pity you DON. Congratulations to rjvora for sharing your sorrows and accompanying you. How I wish there were more people like Vora with the helping nature. Don let this chance meeting with rjvora blossom. I firmly believe GOD never ever makes chance meetings.

Is it possible to give the benefit of doubt to Spectra ? I am sure nothing happened when i hit the stone and stopped the car. The cam was perfect till then. For instance, lets assume that the cam did have a hairline fracture then. So is it possible that when they tried to crank the engine once it must have broken. Is it possible that the valves and piston can remain undamaged after 1 or 2 minor cranks ??? Cause this is when they say is that they heard engine knocking and stopped immediately.

Why I am saying this is that if it was truly impossible to have no damage at valves and pistons, Spectra cannot risk their dealership for such 50k profits or helping friends, since there is always a risk of Maruti coming on the picture. I am sure they could have easily tampered with the valves and pistons as well if they wanted.

Also, till today Spectra has been extremely transparent with everything, with themselves advising me to escalate things to senior management at Maruti and Royal Sundaram etc.
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Old 11th June 2009, 12:05   #85
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Originally Posted by ThE_DoN View Post
So the big Surprise/Relief is that there is absolutely no damage to any internal parts. The piston and bore is perfect and there is no visible damage to the valves either. Most importantly the valve and piston directly below the broken section of the cam was also unharmed. I was not expecting any engine seizure anyways since I had stopped the vehicle immediately.
This is another proof for you to present to insurance, that the damage is due to the accident and not due to incident of you driving around with a damaged car.

Hope the insurance clears this up fast and you get your car back in shape soon.
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Old 11th June 2009, 12:57   #86
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Is it possible to give the benefit of doubt to Spectra ? .

Also, till today Spectra has been extremely transparent with everything, with themselves advising me to escalate things to senior management at Maruti and Royal Sundaram etc.
I can understand your anxiety in getting this issue closed positively and thus absolving Spectra of any misdeeds. But like others here, I also feel that this has been done purposely to extract money.
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Old 11th June 2009, 18:50   #87
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... Also, he mentioned there are no camshaft bearings in a diesel engine!
No Camshaft bearings in a Diesel engine?? How else are these shafts mounted then? Absolute load of Crap!!!

I haven't forgotten my basics of mechanical engineering even after taking on an IT profession. There is no way a cam shaft - for that matter any shaft - can be mounted without use of at least one bearing - the bearing could be a simple bronze or Gun Metal Bush or a roller or ball bearing. Selection of the right type of bearing depends on the purpose for which the shaft is to be used.
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Old 11th June 2009, 19:02   #88
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guys, a question....

Isnt a Camshaft failure/breakage covered under warranty? Not sure if Don still has warranty or not - but otherwise?
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Old 11th June 2009, 22:56   #89
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No Camshaft bearings in a Diesel engine?? How else are these shafts mounted then? Absolute load of Crap!!!

I haven't forgotten my basics of mechanical engineering even after taking on an IT profession. There is no way a cam shaft - for that matter any shaft - can be mounted without use of at least one bearing - the bearing could be a simple bronze or Gun Metal Bush or a roller or ball bearing. Selection of the right type of bearing depends on the purpose for which the shaft is to be used.

Cnaganathan : Frankly i don't know much about bearings business. But the asst. works manager specifically told me that swift diesel engine does not have cam bearings like the petrol engine. He said that these (red arrows) act as the bearings.

Is there any other parts you are talking about. Please let me know where to look for them in the engine and what its called, I can get a pic of the same.





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Originally Posted by svsantosh View Post
guys, a question....

Isnt a Camshaft failure/breakage covered under warranty? Not sure if Don still has warranty or not - but otherwise?
My car is 4 months old !! and it sure is in warranty. Spectra told me that since it is an accident case Maruti would not honor the warranty. However incase Royal Sundaram rejects the claim (which they better not), I will head to Maruti for sure.
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Old 11th June 2009, 23:19   #90
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Originally Posted by ThE_DoN View Post
Is it possible to give the benefit of doubt to Spectra ? Is it possible that the valves and piston can remain undamaged after 1 or 2 minor cranks ???[/u] Cause this is when they say is that they heard engine knocking and stopped immediately.

The valves and the piston will be damaged in 90 degree rotation of the first crank let alone one full crank of 360 degrees. In one full crank of a four cylinder four stroke interference type engine at the very minimum half the number of valves and pistons will be damaged.
Maruti is the culprit and I think Royal Sundaram knows about this modus operandi of theirs.
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