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Old 30th April 2011, 13:09   #61
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Default Re: Mazda All Set to Enter India

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Originally Posted by H3LIOS View Post
When we were in US, we had a Mazda MPV (minivan) for a few years. It was the best handling van I had ever driven, "zoom-zoom-zoom" was Mazda's advt line. It drives almost like a well poised sedan. My wife was so attached to it. Whenever she sees the MPV in the old photos, she promptly goes down the memory lane and next thing I know I am listening to how our Xylo is such a poor replacement to the MPV

Yeah! Mazda vehicles do bond with the owners. Especially Miatas, I knew a Miata owner who treated the car like a family member. I once foolishly asked when he might sell the Miata and I learnt a lesson that day.

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Indeed!
One of my Australian friend's MX-5 (miata) got stolen last year (from Melbourne). He and wife still get upset when they talk about it.

By the way, It will be great to see MX-5 on our roads one day
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Old 30th April 2011, 22:14   #62
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Default Re: Mazda All Set to Enter India

This is indeed good news. To have another option in the car market is always a welcome news to us car enthusiasts.

And my personal view is that they should enter india with some kind of connection with ford otherwise its going to be a very difficult road for them in this market where a fair few car makers are well set. I would hate to see mazda's indian innings come to an end prematurely.

I am very very interested to see what what entry strategy they will adopt.
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Old 1st May 2011, 02:24   #63
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Default Re: Mazda All Set to Enter India

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Unless Mahindra-Mazda is on cards hardly any other options exist. People mentioned Ford - but why should Ford do a JV with Mazda? Their old JV partners (Swaraj Mazda) do not have the cash or the muscle required to succeed in the mass markets and negative name recognition for the premium markets.
Until recently Ford used to own a large portion of Mazda. (They still have a small stake, apparently). Also the Mazda 2 and the new Fiesta share the same platform. They also have a shared plant in the US, so there are a lot of synergies.

When I first drove a Mazda 3 in 2007 (a rental), I knew nothing of it's sporty pretensions, but instantly liked the way it handled. The quality of the interiors was a cut above other vehicles in the same range. I think it would be an ideal midsize sedan for India.
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Old 1st May 2011, 03:37   #64
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Default Re: Mazda All Set to Enter India

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Until recently Ford used to own a large portion of Mazda. (They still have a small stake, apparently). Also the Mazda 2 and the new Fiesta share the same platform. They also have a shared plant in the US, so there are a lot of synergies.

When I first drove a Mazda 3 in 2007 (a rental), I knew nothing of it's sporty pretensions, but instantly liked the way it handled. The quality of the interiors was a cut above other vehicles in the same range. I think it would be an ideal midsize sedan for India.
My question was what is in it for Ford? given that Ford has similar models launched in India and is (now) doing pretty well thanks to Figo, why should it bother helping a potential rival set up shop?
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Old 1st May 2011, 21:08   #65
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Default Re: Mazda All Set to Enter India

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My question was what is in it for Ford? given that Ford has similar models launched in India and is (now) doing pretty well thanks to Figo, why should it bother helping a potential rival set up shop?
If both Ford and Mazda can co-exist in all major markets, why not in India? We're now a market which no manufacturer can ignore
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Old 1st May 2011, 21:17   #66
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Default Re: Mazda All Set to Enter India

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If both Ford and Mazda can co-exist in all major markets, why not in India? We're now a market which no manufacturer can ignore

Well, if they complement each other then it makes sense. But if they bring Ford Fiesta platform here then they are competing against Ford.

My question actually is how do they plan to go exist with Ford (i.e. not eat into Ford's margins while doing so)? And if they can't then what is in it for Ford?
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Old 1st May 2011, 21:34   #67
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Default Re: Mazda All Set to Enter India

Royalties my friend. For every car Mazda sells ford earns something. Also they can earn money from sharing the already existing infrastructure to Mazda. Also they won't be priced same as ford. They will command a premium(for all known reasons) hence no cross shopping to be feared for Ford. So the question is when does this happen?
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Old 1st May 2011, 21:45   #68
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Default Re: Mazda All Set to Enter India

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My question was what is in it for Ford? given that Ford has similar models launched in India and is (now) doing pretty well thanks to Figo, why should it bother helping a potential rival set up shop?
Few advantages that come to mind are:

1) Economies of scale in terms of price of parts.

2) Sharing of R&D costs and also sharing of R&D results.

3) Copying the successful strategy of VW and Skoda with models like the Fabia and polo and now the vento and a similarly priced sedan the 'Rapid' being launced in diwali.

4) For faster market penetration. Its easier doing it with 2 brands than one. Eg. instead of ford trying to garner 30% market share, they can use two brands and maybe combine the market share of the two to come up with a higher market share. Ford alone, 30% market share will be tough, but 20% & 12% is more achievable. And if successful the result will be 32% (just an example and not based on actual market share targets set by ford)

P.S Ford now owns 14% stake in Mazda (2010) from 33% in 2008. They sold off part of their stake during the financial restructuring in 2008/9. But it seems they are keen to buy back into Mazda if the price is right now that Fords books are better balanced.

Last edited by amrisharm : 1st May 2011 at 21:49.
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Old 1st May 2011, 21:54   #69
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Default Re: Mazda All Set to Enter India

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P.S Ford now owns 14% stake in Mazda (2010) from 33% in 2008. They sold off part of their stake during the financial restructuring in 2008/9. But it seems they are keen to buy back into Mazda if the price is right now that Fords books are better balanced.
Just to correct you , mate, Ford owns a 5.00% stake in Mazda.
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Old 1st May 2011, 23:31   #70
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Default Re: Mazda All Set to Enter India

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Originally Posted by amrisharm View Post
Few advantages that come to mind are:

1) Economies of scale in terms of price of parts.

2) Sharing of R&D costs and also sharing of R&D results.

3) Copying the successful strategy of VW and Skoda with models like the Fabia and polo and now the vento and a similarly priced sedan the 'Rapid' being launced in diwali.

4) For faster market penetration. Its easier doing it with 2 brands than one. Eg. instead of ford trying to garner 30% market share, they can use two brands and maybe combine the market share of the two to come up with a higher market share. Ford alone, 30% market share will be tough, but 20% & 12% is more achievable. And if successful the result will be 32% (just an example and not based on actual market share targets set by ford)

P.S Ford now owns 14% stake in Mazda (2010) from 33% in 2008. They sold off part of their stake during the financial restructuring in 2008/9. But it seems they are keen to buy back into Mazda if the price is right now that Fords books are better balanced.

All of the reasons you mention make sense and still me head says "I don't know".
  1. Economies of scale advantage on Figo/Fiesta class are probably not going to be great. Figo already sells roughly 10k/month and shares a lot of components with Fiesta. Anyway, the question is are these savings worth the risk of cannibalisation?
  2. I think Mazda will benefit more than Ford from R&D sharing - again not much incentive for Ford.
  3. VW/Skoda is the same company. Ford/Mazda are only 3%. They still have JVs for common technology development etc. But one of the reasons Ford cited in its 2010 stake sale was that it would give Ford "more flexibility in emerging markets" - meaning it would be able to compete.
  4. The market penetration argument is well and good, but here's the thing if Ford has 10% market and Ford+Mazda hase 8%+4% then the overall marketshare improves, BUT overall profits may suffer.
As @999 wrote in Mazda enters premium segment then there may be something - but Tata-Fiat shows that it is not easy going (and in that relationship Tata benefits from Fiat technology, here it is the other way round).

May be all of you are right, Let's wait and watch.
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Old 2nd May 2011, 09:47   #71
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Default Re: Mazda All Set to Enter India

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Originally Posted by vina View Post
All of the reasons you mention make sense and still me head says "I don't know".
  1. Economies of scale advantage on Figo/Fiesta class are probably not going to be great. Figo already sells roughly 10k/month and shares a lot of components with Fiesta. Anyway, the question is are these savings worth the risk of cannibalisation?
  2. I think Mazda will benefit more than Ford from R&D sharing - again not much incentive for Ford.
  3. VW/Skoda is the same company. Ford/Mazda are only 3%. They still have JVs for common technology development etc. But one of the reasons Ford cited in its 2010 stake sale was that it would give Ford "more flexibility in emerging markets" - meaning it would be able to compete.
  4. The market penetration argument is well and good, but here's the thing if Ford has 10% market and Ford+Mazda hase 8%+4% then the overall marketshare improves, BUT overall profits may suffer.
As @999 wrote in Mazda enters premium segment then there may be something - but Tata-Fiat shows that it is not easy going (and in that relationship Tata benefits from Fiat technology, here it is the other way round).

And Mazda by all means is not a big automotive company. And in order to survive in the future, they either need to merge or grow bigger, and I guess they have decided to take the latter route of growing bigger. For that they need to be in places like India and China and S.E.Asia.

Here is a question to ponder on, Where would Suzuki motors be today had it not been for MarutiSuzuki .

May be all of you are right, Let's wait and watch.
Well if all that everyone has said does not make sense then maybe this will, India is now considered one of the fastest growing markets for cars in the world ( in terms of volume). And a leader is small and compact cars not just in terms of sales but also research and development. So i guess no car maker can afford to ignore india, Because of the importance of small cars, be it in Asia, Africa Europe or in recent times America.

Even though we car lovers detest the 107% tax levy on imported cars, including me, we have to admit that this has helped bring about a healthy and thriving auto manufacturing industry. And with India now nearing completion on free trade agreements (FTA's) with a lot of countries as well as ASEAN, and BRICS, The importance of India has only grown not just as a sale oriented market, but as an export hub.

With the automotive companies now consolidating their position by mergers and acquisition's, it is vital for Mazda to either form a strategic alliance or to grow in size in order to survive. it seems mazda has decided on the latter, i.e to grow in size. And what better way to do it than to enter one of the fastest growing markets in the world, which also has the possibility of being a key export hub for small cars (eg Hyundai, Maruti etc).

A question to ponder on, where would Suzuki motors be today had it not been for Maruti Suzuki .

Last edited by amrisharm : 2nd May 2011 at 10:00.
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Old 2nd May 2011, 10:58   #72
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Default Re: Mazda All Set to Enter India

I am not questioning why Mazda would want a JV. I think that is a given.
My question is why would Ford want a JV with Mazda - what does Mazda bring to the table in India?

Last edited by manson : 2nd May 2011 at 13:21. Reason: Kindly avoid quoting large posts.
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Old 2nd May 2011, 11:07   #73
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Default Re: Mazda All Set to Enter India

Im pretty sure Mazda will enter India with Ford. They have a strong tie up with them all over the world and share various model platforms and engines. I am pretty excited for this i think the RX-8 would actually sell good here and would probably go for 20-25 lacs. They should also introduce the Mazda 3 aka the Axela and the mazdaspeed model which has a 2.3 turbo charged engine with a pretty good k04 turbo.
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Old 2nd May 2011, 12:38   #74
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Default Re: Mazda All Set to Enter India

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Im pretty sure Mazda will enter India with Ford. They have a strong tie up with them all over the world and share various model platforms and engines. I am pretty excited for this i think the RX-8 would actually sell good here and would probably go for 20-25 lacs. They should also introduce the Mazda 3 aka the Axela and the mazdaspeed model which has a 2.3 turbo charged engine with a pretty good k04 turbo.
A turo charged 2.3 sure sounds tasty, but I guess Mazda would go take a conservative approach and offer more efficient enginess initially, at least till they gain some stronghold in our market with a good sales and service network and a 'reliable brand' reputation
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Old 2nd May 2011, 13:03   #75
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Default Re: Mazda All Set to Enter India

My thoughts: Couple of areas in the Indian car market which are not fully exploited are:

* 10 lakh MPV / SUV space (currently only the Innova / Scorpio operate here). Mazda can clearly make a mark here. The sliding door MPV style is unique to the Indian scene.

* The "sports-car" segment. I know we are not a market which is mature enough for this. But no harm in being the first mover. The entire price bracket of < 50 lakh is up for the grabs. The RX8 can be used as the flag-ship and the Miata the volume driver.
Just the way Toyota projected themselves as premium SUV player (Land Cruisers + Prado) before the launch of the the Fortuner. It worked well for them.


* The 12-15 lakh C+ sedan segment. The Civic is due for replacement, the Cruze still does small numbers. A quality, well styled sedan should take on the Corolla well.

Pertinent to note that these are segments which Ford is not present in India as well. So, cannibalisation too should not be a concern.
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