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Old 24th April 2011, 11:08   #31
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Default re: Design flaws and cost cutting in Indian cars

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Originally Posted by drmohitg View Post
The turn indicator stalk on the left side is very inconvenient for right hand drive cars. Imagine while taking a turn you more often then not slow down and shift gears with your left hand. At the same moment you need to use the indicator stalk too with your left hand which is highly annoying!

Not at the same moment!! You can learn to time it one after the other - indicator stalk, next gear. I am happy with the right side indicator stalk in my car by the way, but I am not clear why it is such an inconvenience other than it feels natural to swipe the right hand over the stalk. In any case because the indicator stalk is on the right does not mean I reach for the stalk and gear at the same time!! That would mean taking my hands off the steering wheel completely!! The left side stalk can save you from that mistake

Just thinking out aloud

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Old 24th April 2011, 14:03   #32
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Default re: Design flaws and cost cutting in Indian cars

frankly even my scorpio wipers are a pain. they dont quite reach the upper left corner of the windshield and hence in conditions of rain + dirt etc, can be rather irritating. hence I have to wipe the windshield clean more frequently than otherwise.

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I say it is a design flaw, because it leaves a pretty big blind spot in front of the driver's eyes, in a place through which he is likely to look pretty often. Leaving the other corner is not that big an issue, but the corner in front of the driver should be cleared up. It is an adaptation of LHD cars I know, but this is something that created a minor safety issue. Leaving the wiper stalks is not a big deal at all, but this definitely is.
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Old 24th April 2011, 14:19   #33
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Default re: Design flaws and cost cutting in Indian cars

I dont think normal same direction swiping wipers ever reach the upper left corner very well. Though I have to say on windshields which are more upright than not, like most Mahindras, it creates a bigger blind spot than the very sloping windshields. You are talking about the Scorpio, my dad's office still uses an 10year old Mahindra Armada, its wiping area is pathetic. Combined with a small windshield as it is, it really impairs view in the rain. Those old Mahindras, should have come with three wipers instead of two.
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Old 24th April 2011, 14:41   #34
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Default re: Design flaws and cost cutting in Indian cars

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Aaron.d, it doesnt make one iota of a difference whether the Polo was made of gold or fibre glass. The car still has 2 major design flaws and one cost cuttting feature. Namely, the rear windows not rolling down fully and the steer stalks configuration being the design flaws and the lack of a reverse light being the cost cutting step those cheapskates have resorted to. If you have purchsed the Polo, you have been ripped off. I would ask for my money back.
IMHO these are not design flaws, its just that they have left these features so as to resemble the German traits of the car. A person would go for a European brand considering you either are impressed by their durability, standards and quality, so I'm pretty sure they would love to have a few traits if not the same car here in India. I'm pretty sure most owners of these cars would agree. If your looking for the conventional features you always have your Maruti's and Hyundai's.

And I have purchased a Polo and the sheer driving pleasure surely makes the bucks worth-while, maybe a little expensive but I wouldn't be happier with any other hatch in my garage.


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Hey now thats taking it to an extreme. The Polo is a great vehicle and VFM product I would say. NoWays the 2 or 3 flaws you mentioned are a deal breaker and SURELY VW is not RIPPING the customers.

BTW a Polo made of gold is an interesting idea LOL
A gold Polo
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Old 24th April 2011, 17:15   #35
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Default re: Design flaws and cost cutting in Indian cars

Very disappointed to see that most people here simply do not have the sense of reasoning to see the points Im trying to make. No wonder car manufacturers take Indian market for a joke and dump their junk here.

`How on earth is having a rear window that does NOT roll down fully become a design feature rather than a design flaw. Can some enlightened souls please educate me.

The reasons given so far, for this ingenious design feature range from kid not jumping out to allowing dog stick its head out...to ladies prefer it that way! Really?

If safety concern was on the designers mind, he would have placed a roll down limiter to catch the glass at a particular point as it rolled down. But if you inspect the cars that come with this flaw, you can see that the roll down is limited by the wheel arch. There is no mechanism put in the door encasing to stop the travel of the glass.

And the foolish Indian consumers continue to defend clueless designers and purchase their product instead of putting them out of business. What a shame.

Note from the Team-BHP Support Team: Please use the "edit" button if posting within 30 minutes of the first post, instead of creating another back-to-back post.

Last edited by Rudra Sen : 25th April 2011 at 08:20.
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Old 24th April 2011, 17:53   #36
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Default re: Design flaws and cost cutting in Indian cars

Meili, please check your facts.

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It is true that I the rear window not rolling down fully is something I have seen on larger sedans to. Like the old Honda City.
I have a 2000 model Honda City. Its rear windows go down all the way.

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My grouse is about handbrakes that are placed to the left of the coin slot/cubby hole, where storage space is provided near the handbrake in the centre console. Like in the Honda City, where you have the handbrake towards the passenger side, but sitting right next to it towards the driver side is the storage space for knickknacks.
Again, the handbrake is smack in the middle.

If you want design flaws, check some ownership reports here. Safari's electrical wiring is a design flaw (again, something i read in one of the ownership reports)

Skimping on disc brakes at rear is cost cutting.

Almost all the cars right out of the factory are under tyred! Thats cost cutting.

Last edited by amitoj : 24th April 2011 at 17:55.
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Old 24th April 2011, 17:58   #37
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Default re: Design flaws and cost cutting in Indian cars

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Originally Posted by Meili View Post
`How on earth is having a rear window that does NOT roll down fully become a design feature rather than a design flaw. Can some enlightened souls please educate me.

And the foolish Indian consumers continue to defend clueless designers and purchase their product instead of putting them out of business. What a shame.
The rear window not going down fully is not a design flaw. It's just like that!
About the safety aspect, I guess it is linked to the side impact beams, but that doesn't make it a "safety feature"
About the rear quarter glass, I agree.

But frankly tell me, how many people nowadays put down their windows completely? At least in my cars, the rear windows are seldom put down.

About the last line, and us putting them out of business, why would someo ne not buy a Ford Figo just because the rear windows don't go down fully? It is spacious, newer an entrant, solid, good/as good in performance FE etc. when compared to its immediate rival, the swift.



EDIT: About car manufacturers taking the Indian market for a joke and dumping their junk here, remember, the Bolero has a glaring egronomic faults and more, despite being a "made for India" product.
I am not being sarcastic or rude, just friendly advice to a forum newbie; Please calm down, or the moderators might want you to watch your tone.

Last edited by Arkin evoisrevo : 24th April 2011 at 18:01.
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Old 24th April 2011, 18:28   #38
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Default re: Design flaws and cost cutting in Indian cars

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Originally Posted by Meili View Post
1) Cannot roll down the rear window glass fully due to wheel arch getting in the way. A quarter glass could have corrected this problem.

2) Single reverse light -apart from being aesthetically unpleasing, this cost cutting measure is a safety issue. Reduces visibility in reverse by 50percent and this is significant in pitch dark conditions. Secondly, it is easy for the single operating light to be caught in blind spot, rendering the light useless in terms of warning other motorists of the car coming in reverse.

3) Indicatior and light stalk on the wrong side! With this configuration you would turn the wipeer on with the right hand and the lights with your left. It is not just about being a source of annoyance. The stalks attached to the steering wheel have been lifter off the left hand drive models and fitted onto the Indian cars.
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And the foolish Indian consumers continue to defend clueless designers and purchase their product instead of putting them out of business. What a shame.
Sorry, but not sure if these are design flaws. And even if I want to take these as design flaws (as mentioned in the OP), none of these are specific to India, or India specific models. Single reverse light, and half rolling down of rear windows are not something specific for India.

I have a Ford Ikon, but never felt that the indicator stalks are on the wrong side. Again this is something which is common in many RHD markets.

Last edited by vb-san : 24th April 2011 at 18:29.
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Old 24th April 2011, 18:31   #39
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Default re: Design flaws and cost cutting in Indian cars

design flaw:
  • VW Polo and vento's bonnet/ wiper placement gap. Owners said that lifting the wiper has a tendency to interfere with the sheetmetal and the paint gets chipped off.
  • The AC of older model lineas and puntos, majority 1.4 and 1.2 FIRE petrols. Not so efficient.
  • steering rattles persistent on i20, a design flaw for which hyundai doesnt have solution themselves.
Cost cutting:
  • built-to-a-cost toyota etios. every area screams cost cutting.
  • European Punto VS Indian punto. Cheap feeling interiors due to localization effect. Ditto for early model lineas.

Last edited by sidindica : 24th April 2011 at 18:32.
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Old 24th April 2011, 18:33   #40
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Default re: Design flaws and cost cutting in Indian cars

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Originally Posted by Meili View Post
Very disappointed to see that most people here simply do not have the sense of reasoning to see the points Im trying to make. No wonder car manufacturers take Indian market for a joke and dump their junk here.
Meili, well, as I mentioned earlier, if you have any sort of evidence for the 'standard' placement of wiper stalks, and specific reasons for it, please let me know. I would be more than happy to educate myself.

Also, now getting to the 'real' engineering defects:-
  • The AC diverter valve in the IKON. Replaced mine about 3 times, and then let it be..
  • Even if we select the blower to cool the feet, air still comes out through the center vent. Not sure if this is a 'feature', but as I travel alone mostly - not appreciated.
Will keep adding to this list, as and when I remember it.
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Old 24th April 2011, 18:52   #41
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Default re: Design flaws and cost cutting in Indian cars

There is so much talk about cost-cutting in the form of wiper-stalks on the wrong side and a single reverse light as opposed to two. But the real problem at hand is the lack of adequate safety features in most cars under 10 lakhs.

Yes, Airbags and ABS are options on cars and are generally standard on the top-end variants. But I do not understand why they should be completely omitted from the lesser variants.

Maruti, for example, still do not give ABS and airbags, even as options on the top-end Swift and Ritz.

In Europe (and actually everywhere else), airbags and ABS are a must in all cars across the range. They must be equipped, whatever the variant might be. So I fail to understand why safety is compromised.

It's like, if you go bungee-jumping, the personnel offers you a discount of 300 if you agree to not wear 20% of the harness!

Last edited by suhaas307 : 24th April 2011 at 18:54.
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Old 24th April 2011, 18:59   #42
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Default re: Design flaws and cost cutting in Indian cars

Well I do agree with Meili on one point regarding the indicator and wiper stalks. The placement should be opposite in LHD vs RHD drive. I am not saying which side is the correct side but if something is on the left side in a LHD vehicle the same feature shall be on the Right side in a LHD car.

Are there any LHD cars in the USA and Europe which have the Indicator and wiper stalks according to our RHD cars i.e Indicator stalk on the right side in a LHD car?
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Old 24th April 2011, 19:04   #43
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Default re: Design flaws and cost cutting in Indian cars

I have a skoda and a swift with differing controls - I have no issues from a safety or ergonomic standpoint
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Old 24th April 2011, 19:09   #44
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Default re: Design flaws and cost cutting in Indian cars

@Meili

I think I already mentioned why some manufacturers dont allow for the rear windows to roll down fully. Changing the window design messes up the complete look of the car. Thus they think it is not really necessary for the rear window to roll down fully. And I fully agree with them

@Amitoj

I dont think skimping on rear disc brakes is actually cost cutting in the true sense. Speeds in India overall are much lower than in Europe. This negates the requirement of disc brakes at the rear. All the faster cars even in India, ones capable of greater than 180kmph, I think get disc brakes all round.

Similarly the case of "under tyring". In India, decreasing rolling resistance and increasing mileage is more important than providing high amounts of grip. Again thanks to the lower speed involved in India, this is not that much of an issue.

It is us enthusiasts who feel cars to require rear disc brakes and fatter tyres. But the manufacturer makes a car for the general consumer.

@Meili

Please take a look at the list provided by "sidindica". Now that is what is a design flaw or a cost cutting measure.
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Old 24th April 2011, 19:38   #45
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Default re: Design flaws and cost cutting in Indian cars

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And the foolish Indian consumers continue to defend clueless designers and purchase their product instead of putting them out of business. What a shame.
Since you've already called us fools, I'll ask a foolish question. Which car do you own?
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