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Old 27th April 2011, 17:30   #106
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Default re: Design flaws and cost cutting in Indian cars

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Originally Posted by Spitfire View Post
One of the biggest flaw and cost cut feature in almost 99% of Indian cars is the driver.

They cut costs during license tests, during educating them on rules and etiquette and most importantly a flawed commonsense.

The intangible yet significant cost cuts for sure.

Last edited by muni : 27th April 2011 at 17:33.
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Old 27th April 2011, 18:02   #107
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Default re: Design flaws and cost cutting in Indian cars

IIRC, our Diesel Ikon didn't have a tacho and instead, a photo of car was drawn there.
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Old 27th April 2011, 23:52   #108
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Default re: Design flaws and cost cutting in Indian cars

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@Avon
As mentioned many a time earlier, the single reversing light is there to accommodate the rear fog lamp in the other light cluster. Thus it is neither a design flaw or cost cutting measure.
hhmm, I believe you are correct in analyzing the setup. But, there are enough places to accommodate the rear fog lamp in Polo, so why to swap the place with a possible reverse light?

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But the ability to open the doors from the inside is actually a safety feature. It allows for the passengers to open the doors easily during a crash.
Yes I know this would come up . In fact, I was told at the dealership about the same when I asked them (also if I am not wrong its mentioned couple of times in Team-BHP as well), very local example - Mumbai floods : todays car comes with more complex electronic setup, so in case of accident/floods if something goes wrong, with current setup of Polo's door locking mechanism, one can easily come out of the car and it might prove to be a life saver.

But the fact is - at least me personally, always remind the rear seat passenger about this door locking mechanism in case they accidentally open the door which in any case can be fatal too. More so, if any kid is at the rear seat. Then what is use of central locking?

In todays advance technology it is not so difficult to disable the central locking in case of any accident or short circuit !

* These cars comes from European/American setup and in our context (India), the rear seat importance is totally different to that of EU/Us.

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Different size spares is definitely cost cutting. But as it is it is not expected of you to use the spare tyre for a long time to maintain equitable wear on all tyres. Thus its not a big problem to use a different size tyre, as long as the overall dia is the same.
Again, this explanation is quite common. Come on!, if in a highway at midnight I have a puncture, then I can use the spare wheel for at least 5-600kms before I can repair the punctured wheel, I hope you agree here.

Now, tell me, when they say that if one changes the tire specification, warranty might get void as different size tires can affect the car's handling/ride and so on then why do they provide themselves different size (also weight) tires?

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How is this a design flaw?

It has been clearly mentioned in the manual that you have to bring the wiper to service position in order to replace the blades.

The wiper service position is standard across VW and is even there on the VW Phaeton (albeit through the console). I haven't done an exhaustive study, but some BMWs have it too. I bet all Audis must be having it as well.
I personally do not have any problem with this setup, also its sometimes irritating when I occasionally take my car to water pressure wash where I have to make sure that the guy washing the car does not pull the wiper and instruct him to wait before I can move the wiper to service position for him to wash the F windscreen/wiper.

Snow - In Europe may be its valid reason, but how many places in India do we have snowfall. Aerodynamics - may be yes, (I must admit, personally like that the spray nozzle to clean the windscreen is not on the bonnet in Polo) but don't quite get it when the car would be driven 90% of the times below a speed which does not affect the aerodynamics due to wiper settings why to make it complicated.

In any case, other cars are also having this setup, and never heard any incident of wiper causing any accident at high speeds.

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Originally Posted by manasm View Post
The door locking mechanism described above is for safety - as explained to me by a Toyota dealer in the US a few years ago.
The not opening from the outside is so that others can't get in - a la car jackings in LA in the 80s and 90s.
The opening from the inside after locking is so that in case of accidents etc, the people inside are able to open the doors and exit the cars.
Aware of this reason, please refer my 2nd response to @julupani.
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Old 28th April 2011, 00:02   #109
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Default re: Design flaws and cost cutting in Indian cars

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Originally Posted by AvonA7 View Post

Again, this explanation is quite common. Come on!, if in a highway at midnight I have a puncture, then I can use the spare wheel for at least 5-600kms before I can repair the punctured wheel, I hope you agree here.

Now, tell me, when they say that if one changes the tire specification, warranty might get void as different size tires can affect the car's handling/ride and so on then why do they provide themselves different size (also weight) tires?
This is an excellent point and I had the same question too. But I've been told by some knowledgeable people that the company would assess the problem, with the suspension and handling if caused by the different-sized tyre that they have provided, and resolve the issue.

But I'm not certain. Dealerships and service-centers are known to have brush off issues these days, and this one might just be one of them.
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Old 28th April 2011, 00:36   #110
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Default re: Design flaws and cost cutting in Indian cars

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Originally Posted by Spitfire View Post
One of the biggest flaw and cost cut feature in almost 99% of Indian cars is the driver.

They cut costs during license tests, during educating them on rules and etiquette and most importantly a flawed commonsense.
Nope I don't think so. Common sense is something that money can't buy. Nor is honesty and responsibility.I'm sure you agree

Talking about cost cutting, the worst case of cost cutting I've come across:
My i10 1.2 (Magna) doesn't have intermittant vipers.
Now thats something my decade old M800 has!

And I've heard the matting/damping in the etios is poor. :-(

And does the Fiesta "classics" black interiors also amount to design flaws?

Last edited by Arkin evoisrevo : 28th April 2011 at 00:44.
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Old 28th April 2011, 02:25   #111
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Default re: Design flaws and cost cutting in Indian cars

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Originally Posted by Arkin evoisrevo View Post
Talking about cost cutting, the worst case of cost cutting I've come across:
My i10 1.2 (Magna) doesn't have intermittant vipers.
Now thats something my decade old M800 has!
You can easily replace the wiper stalk lever of the Magna with that on the Sportz. You would then get the intermittent wiping facility on your Magna. I have done so in my I10 to great effect.
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Old 28th April 2011, 04:14   #112
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Dunno if this has already been mentioned, but the omission of boot release lever from the newer IKON's is definitely cost cutting.
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Old 28th April 2011, 08:57   #113
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Originally Posted by AvonA7 View Post

But the fact is - at least me personally, always remind the rear seat passenger about this door locking mechanism in case they accidentally open the door which in any case can be fatal too. More so, if any kid is at the rear seat. Then what is use of central locking?
If you have a child in back, you must engage child lock. This is available in all cars (If not please let us know). With child lock on, one can't open from inside, it can only be opened from outside. There is no point in arguing what if child gets urge to open, etc. Not engaging child lock on both rear doors is only your stupidity. One might ask what happens in case of accidents, one can't open from outside as well as inside with both child lock and central locking engaged. But cars now a days come up with auto disengaging of central locking in case of a accident, which will dis-engage central locking. I am not sure if child lock also disengages (I think it won't, but I might be wrong)?
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Old 28th April 2011, 09:11   #114
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Default re: Design flaws and cost cutting in Indian cars

@AvonA7

Agreed there is definitely a possibility that you might need to use the spare on a long journey. But tell me how many times will this be the case. What percentage of a normal car owner's drive is on the highway. Also, how often do tyres get punctured. Overall the point is, it is logical to save the cost of the alloy wheel and larger tyre, when the percentage of serious problems occuring due to its use is miniscule. The case you have mentioned is a sort of rare of the rarest case. Also, if any vehicle damage is traced to prolonged use of the spare due to unfortunate circumstances, I do beleive the manufacturers will be more than willing to resolve the issue.

Also, central locking I dont think was there to prevent people from opening the door without the driver's permission. It was there to make it easy for the driver to lock all the doors, which is still achieved. And as already mentioned by RaguHolla if you want the rear doors to remain closed due to some kids at the back, use the child lock.

Also, your idea of disabling the locks automatically in a crash is not possible when there is no remote locking, ie when the central locking is activated by turning the key in the driver's door. Here there isnt any electronic device locking the door, but a mechanical linkage.
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Old 3rd May 2011, 14:30   #115
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Default re: Design flaws and cost cutting in Indian cars

Cost Cutting:
Undersized tyres (Almost all manufacturers do it)
Poor rubber for door trim (Scorpio 2005)
Poor rubber for wiring harness going into doors (Scorpio 2005)
Too short a length for Air-intake sensor wires (Santro 2002) The engine vibrations were enough to break them

Bad Design:
AC vents in Scorpio 2005-2008 (cheap, weak, ineffective, breaks easily)
Inter cooler placement at the front (Scorpio 2005), gets clogged with mud easily
Figo Front Bumper, offers no resistance and transfers all impact to underlying, more expensive, components

Don't we have LHD and RHD design guidelines as to what goes where? I definitely feel its not comfortable to switch between the two designs of stalks for my Figo and Scopio.

Generally, all cost cuttings also leads to bad designs or we can say the cheaper alternative is generally proven to be poorly designed .
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Old 3rd May 2011, 14:43   #116
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Default re: Design flaws and cost cutting in Indian cars

The S version of the ANHC doesn't have the rotary knob controls for the AC fan speed control that the V version has!
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Old 3rd May 2011, 17:04   #117
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Default re: Design flaws and cost cutting in Indian cars

Slightly OT, but still relevant:- New bikes today "generally" do not have the kick start option available, the only option is a starting switch (self in common lingo), is this cost cutting or a design flaw?

Spike

Last edited by SPIKE ARRESTOR : 3rd May 2011 at 17:06. Reason: add info
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Old 7th June 2011, 21:14   #118
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Default re: Design flaws and cost cutting in Indian cars

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Slightly OT, but still relevant:- New bikes today "generally" do not have the kick start option available, the only option is a starting switch (self in common lingo), is this cost cutting or a design flaw?

Spike

Neither - this is the bike catching up with the car. When did you last see a car with a spanner stuck in front and a guy frantically rotating it to start the engine?
Last time I checked - it was a Charlie Chaplin movie


The most severe cost cutting that I notice in Indian cars is on the safety front - ABS and Airbags are treated like manna from heaven and reserved for only the top variant. Guess only a government mandate can change this.
Also under-equipping and under-tiring are common practice in India.

Last edited by blackasta : 7th June 2011 at 21:19.
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Old 7th June 2011, 21:31   #119
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Under tiring compared to European versions is I think a pretty logical thing in India. One overall speeds, including cornering speeds acceleration etc, are much lower in India. Two, fuel efficiency requirement is higher in India.

Yes, some performance enthusiasts would love thicker tyres, but not the common car buyer.
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Old 7th June 2011, 21:36   #120
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Default re: Design flaws and cost cutting in Indian cars

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Neither - this is the bike catching up with the car. When did you last see a car with a spanner stuck in front and a guy frantically rotating it to start the engine?
Last time I checked - it was a Charlie Chaplin movie
Nope. Ambassador Mk3 had them. Available as standard in India until the 70's.
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