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Old 1st May 2011, 07:46   #46
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Default Re: Should a few of us stop owning cars?!

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Originally Posted by vishnurp99 View Post
I would ask a different question. Rather than stopping car ownership maybe what folks should do is move to cities where infrastructure is better shape.
I think this is a very valid suggestion. The pace with which our big cities are growing, it will be next to impossible for Public Transport to solve the problem. The problem lies in concentration of employment in few major cities and people migrating to these cities for a better livelihood. Decentralisation of employment is the key. Smaller cities like Mysore, Nagpur, Chandigarh have much better infra and offer better quality of life. We will have to increase employment opportunities in these cities so that they become regional hubs of development.

Given that decentralisation is a long shot and we probably will not see in our lifetime, my suggestions would be
- Use public transport wherever possible
- Car pooling with your colleagues for daily office commute
- Move closer to your office. Lesser time commuting means more time with family and friends.
- Use multilevel car parks when traveling to congested part of the city. I was recently surprised to discover that Pune Municipal Corporation has built and successfully runs Multi Level Car Parks in the heart of the city. I usually park my car there. They charge a nominal fee of Rs 5 per hour.
- Also, I will definitely not recommend usage of bike for day to day commute for safety reasons.
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Old 1st May 2011, 09:43   #47
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Default Re: Should a few of us stop owning cars?!

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Originally Posted by C300 View Post
I think this is a very valid suggestion. The pace with which our big cities are growing, it will be next to impossible for Public Transport to solve the problem. The problem lies in concentration of employment in few major cities and people migrating to these cities for a better livelihood. Decentralisation of employment is the key. Smaller cities like Mysore, Nagpur, Chandigarh have much better infra and offer better quality of life. We will have to increase employment opportunities in these cities so that they become regional hubs of development.

Given that decentralisation is a long shot and we probably will not see in our lifetime, my suggestions would be
- Use public transport wherever possible
- Car pooling with your colleagues for daily office commute
- Move closer to your office. Lesser time commuting means more time with family and friends.
- Use multilevel car parks when traveling to congested part of the city. I was recently surprised to discover that Pune Municipal Corporation has built and successfully runs Multi Level Car Parks in the heart of the city. I usually park my car there. They charge a nominal fee of Rs 5 per hour.
- Also, I will definitely not recommend usage of bike for day to day commute for safety reasons.
The Decentralisation you talked about is already happening. Large employers are moving the B-towns. Though I met add that a quicker solution is to keep the jobs in existing cities (there are good reasons for that from business's point of view) but move the new business to outskirts. That's what in going on in Bangalore on NCR, and I believe in Mumbai too.

Also fuel prices, congestion are fomenting better habits (car pooling, closer to office, even public transport).

The Rs . 5/hour may not even begin to recover the cost of making such parkings (you can do the calculation - include land price, building, running it and a 10% return on capital recovering the money in 20yrs) - this is a handout to the rich (read: us car-owners) and this is exactly the reason why there aren't more of multi-level car parks.
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Old 1st May 2011, 10:17   #48
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Default Re: Should a few of us stop owning cars?!

Why consider only Mumbai and Banglore ? Look at tier 2 cities like Pune. Traffic is a real mess. Absolutely non-existant public transport. Attitude of rickshawalas . All the above forces one to have a four wheeler. I wouldn't dare to travel on a bike for health and safety reasons.
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Old 1st May 2011, 10:38   #49
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Default Re: Should a few of us stop owning cars?!

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Originally Posted by vikrantj View Post
Why consider only Mumbai and Banglore ? Look at tier 2 cities like Pune. Traffic is a real mess. Absolutely non-existant public transport. Attitude of rickshawalas . All the above forces one to have a four wheeler. I wouldn't dare to travel on a bike for health and safety reasons.
I was merely giving an example. I know about Pune too. I believe people are moving to the outskirts in Pune also.

There is a certain inevitability towards congestion in our cities. More vehicles do have something to do with it but the culprits (if you can call them that) are development and prosperity.

Incomes have increased faster than prices and credit availability today is far better than it was even 10yrs ago. As a result more people can now afford cars and even more can afford motorcycles.

Also Indian economy is transforming and therefore over the next couple of decades a lot of people will move from rural areas to tier-3 cities, from tier-3 to tier-2 and from tier-2 to metropolises. This is addition to development of those areas themselves.

Due to the complexity of developments and our system of govt. (I'm NOT saying change it - every system has problems, this is ours) in many instances center and state have to cooperate to develop infrastructure. This is why cities in better run states (Delhi for example, Mumabi used to be till mid-90s, and Bangalore/Hyderabad till mid early 2000s) have much better infrastructure than most other places.
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Old 1st May 2011, 10:53   #50
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Default Re: Should a few of us stop owning cars?!

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Originally Posted by C300 View Post

Decentralisation of employment is the key. Smaller cities like Mysore, Nagpur, Chandigarh have much better infra and offer better quality of life. We will have to increase employment opportunities in these cities so that they become regional hubs of development.
While I completely agree with you, I cant help feeling a bit cynical. Once Bangalore, Hyd and Pune were also good second tier cities. Looks what unplanned and rampant growth has done.

The growth has been good, very good. I am sure most BHPians will agree that they have been unquestionable beneficiaries of this growth. It is just that the authorities were sleeping. I hope going forward things change for the better.

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Originally Posted by C300 View Post
- Car pooling with your colleagues for daily office commute
- Move closer to your office. Lesser time commuting means more time with family and friends.
These are great ideas and certainly implementable. And it is being done to an extent also.

Edit: @vina, saw your post #52 now. Just imagine by 2025 the urban population is expected to double or more. If we dont do something now, how horrible conditions will be then.

Last edited by dot : 1st May 2011 at 11:17.
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Old 1st May 2011, 11:10   #51
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Default Re: Should a few of us stop owning cars?!

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Originally Posted by vina View Post
The Rs . 5/hour may not even begin to recover the cost of making such parkings (you can do the calculation - include land price, building, running it and a 10% return on capital recovering the money in 20yrs) - this is a handout to the rich (read: us car-owners) and this is exactly the reason why there aren't more of multi-level car parks.
IMO the primary reason is lack of Town Planning (or should I say Builder and Babu nexus) and not how much MLCPs are currently charging. Even if they charge more than Rs 5, I would still prefer it given the convenience and security it offers.
The current form of development in our cities is similar to a River - Flows where it finds a way. Unplanned and Unabated.
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Old 1st May 2011, 15:57   #52
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Default Re: Should a few of us stop owning cars?!

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Originally Posted by libranof1987 View Post
All said and done, I think there will definitely come a time when people will wake up to the reality of not having parking space, rising fuel cost and the burden of maintaining a vehicle.
Interesting discussion. I think we can give another 3-4 years before the car craze dies down. It will be because of two trends:

In another 3-4 years all the major cities will have completed atleast their phase-1 metro trains + BRTS. The city infrastructure will then start aligning itself along the metro lines.

Secondly, the impact of telecom technology. 3G/4G and other broadband technologies will reduce/eliminate the need for long commutes. Even in cases where commute cannot be eliminated, telecom technology will make public transportation pleasurable over car-driving (for e.g. you can watch IPL when travelling by metro/bus :-) ). So people would prefer public transport for commuting.

Cars would then be typically used for weekend and pleasure activities mostly.
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Old 1st May 2011, 17:05   #53
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Default Re: Should a few of us stop owning cars?!

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Originally Posted by dot View Post
While I completely agree with you, I cant help feeling a bit cynical. Once Bangalore, Hyd and Pune were also good second tier cities. Looks what unplanned and rampant growth has done.

The growth has been good, very good. I am sure most BHPians will agree that they have been unquestionable beneficiaries of this growth. It is just that the authorities were sleeping. I hope going forward things change for the better.



These are great ideas and certainly implementable. And it is being done to an extent also.

Edit: @vina, saw your post #52 now. Just imagine by 2025 the urban population is expected to double or more. If we dont do something now, how horrible conditions will be then.
I agree with you fully. I think govt. has woken up to some (not all) of the realities - that is why providing parking is a part of the building code now. I think we can see that planning is better (though leaves a lot to be desired) in the newer developments within old cities and in the newer cities.

Anyway, if you look at it from the perspective of govt. apart from parking there are a lot of other issues - double to population requires double of everything - water, electricity, sanitation, waste disposal ... Parking is an inconvenience bur nowadays even Mysore suffers from power and water shortage despite being next to KSR dam.
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Old 1st May 2011, 18:26   #54
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Default Re: Should a few of us stop owning cars?!

Parking, be it Cars or bikes is a real mess. I will give an example of Kolkata's new CBD (Central Business District), the Salt Lake Sector 5. I have been working there since three years and use a bike for my daily commute of 5-6 km one way. The problem is that we have no multi level parkings (govt. run) at all in a place that houses I think more than 1000 huge buildings. Most cars and bikes are parked on the roads which means a road between 2 15 floor buildings is cramped to half.
The cars and bikes are parked only to be abused all through the day under the sun and rain and by regular passers by who use them for anything apart from riding. The cost is Rs. 10/- per day for bikes and Rs. 20/- per day for cars. The alternative is to opt for the parkings inside the multi level parkings of the huge buildings. You know what do they charge, Rs. 1500/- per month for a Bike and Rs. 4000/-per month for a car. Thats more than most EMI's.
So whats the alternative, open road parking and pray that you get your vehicle in sound condition in the evening. Thats the sad story of the flourishing CBD of Kolkata.
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Old 1st May 2011, 21:11   #55
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Default Re: Should a few of us stop owning cars?!

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Originally Posted by gaurav_chopra04 View Post
Add to that, most colonies in Delhi have similar parking problems. Its sheer lack of planning from the government's side.
I do not get this at all. So what is the solution your proposing, is it that the government should provide parking space at everyone’s home. If someone has 10 cars government should provide so many parking lots?

In that case I would like car first from the government
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Old 1st May 2011, 21:34   #56
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Default Re: Should a few of us stop owning cars?!

Agree with PhiGolden. Providing parking should be the last of the Govt's priorities. All they need to do is proper enforcement of building rules, so that when a flat comes up, the promoter also builds in the number of parking slots required by law. Parking on the roads is becoming a big issue - and it is not just private car owners, but call-taxis, tempos, pick-ups and even buses (in Chennai). If one does not have private parking space at home, one should not be allowed to own a car.

The last time I was at Delhi was in 1996 and even then the roads were lined with cars, with most people parking their cars outside on the road, since they had 1 too many cars. 15 years hence I can only imagine to what magnitude the problem (and number of cars) would have risen. This was in New Rajinder Nagar where I was staying - nice locality and for the couple of months I was there, all my transportation needs (I used to travel to all ends of the city on work) were met by buses and the occasional auto-rickshaw.
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Old 1st May 2011, 22:03   #57
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Default Re: Should a few of us stop owning cars?!

For my daily commute to office, I use the company bus. For short trips close by, I have now started walking or using a bicycle. For longer trips in the city where I travel alone, I use either my Pulsar 180 or my wife's scooty. Similarly my wife too uses the scooty for short trips. I try to avoid using the car unless I am going out with the family. But the use of two wheelers is becoming increasingly risky and I encourage my wife to use the Swift more often. The issue is not find parking in the city. So she cannot take it to all the places. I plan to increase the use of the cycle.
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Old 1st May 2011, 23:09   #58
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Default Re: Should a few of us stop owning cars?!

"Should a few of us stop owning cars?"

Well...speak for yourself. If you (OP) have done the math and it doesn't work for you, as you say, please go ahead and sell your car. I resent the implication that I am somehow incapable of working out the cost-benefit analysis of owning and operating a personal vehicle- with due respect, the arguments made here have been made ad nauseum by several well-intentioned people, but in the end it needs to be a choice that an individual makes.

In Singapore, my choice was clear: I did not feel the need to spend 1200-1500 dollars every month when I could easily get a comfortable cab, bus or MRT train to wherever I needed to go. In Pune, unfortunately, as in Bangalore before that, this is not an option. And thankfully my company provides convenient parking at a reasonable price and I have reserved parking at home. Everywhere else, I assume responsibility to find a parking space and don't blame the universe if I don't find it.

Just my opinion- no offence meant to anyone.
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Old 1st May 2011, 23:35   #59
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Default Re: Should a few of us stop owning cars?!

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"Should a few of us stop owning cars?"

Well...speak for yourself. If you (OP) have done the math and it doesn't work for you, as you say, please go ahead and sell your car.

In Singapore, my choice was clear: I did not feel the need to spend 1200-1500 dollars every month when I could easily get a comfortable cab, bus or MRT train to wherever I needed to go. In Pune, unfortunately, as in Bangalore before that, this is not an option. And thankfully my company provides convenient parking at a reasonable price and I have reserved parking at home. Everywhere else, I assume responsibility to find a parking space and don't blame the universe if I don't find it.
Very well said noopster. The intentions are all good. But I dont see myself giving up on the comfort provided by my car. Its just too addicting and pampering when you consider the alternatives like the bus et al. I am ready to waste an extra 10 minutes to find a parking spot rather then stand in te sun and dust and wait for a bus. Just my personal opinion.
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Old 1st May 2011, 23:38   #60
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Default Re: Should a few of us stop owning cars?!

Looks like the title of the thread confused a few. Agree, it could have been better phrased, perhaps "Would it work out better for some of us, if we didn't own cars after all". Having said that, if you read the full post beyond the title, there is no implication that other people should do or not do anything. It is to bring out the option of not owning a car, as an option from a car owner's perspective. That is all. The use of the word "should" is more like "Should I get an iPhone or an Android?" - it means, "will I be better off getting an iPhone or an Android?", not "please command me what phone I should get".
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