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Old 4th January 2011, 23:53   #31
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Default Re: SCOOP : NEW HM AMBASSADOR (CS Version)

The bootlid is shorter and lower than that of the landmaster. Even the tail lamp positioning is a bit different. I think it also has some hint of tail-fin left on it as well.

Saw a brand new Ambassador taxi getting the steel bumper retrofitment being done at a local garage today. The cab wallah's are tired of the fibre bumper falling off, so they revert back to the old type.

According to the mechs the front wings/fenders are also more flexible, maybe some sort of an attempt to provide crumple zones (controlled deformation).

It has also lost the swivelling quarter glass, instead the glass is a fixed one.

Last edited by 1100D : 4th January 2011 at 23:57.
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Old 4th January 2011, 23:57   #32
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Default Re: SCOOP : NEW HM AMBASSADOR (CS Version)

@Kalinga. Tremendous stuff by you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sarmarishi View Post
Hahaha.. looks like they HM took inspiration from the Landmaster and wanted to go back to the good ole days of the Landy! I am sure the CS will be somewhat Landmasterish. I think the Landy looked much cuter than the Amby back.
Why cant they just get rid of it or come up with something like what DC did to the Amby.. what the heck, why not do a complete new car like the Mini or Beetle which will have some lines to suggest that its an iconic Amby but actually is nothing like it!
Quote:
Originally Posted by AirWind View Post
Only HM can go back in time... I can see the original "Landmaster" look is back!
Yes me too think this way; behind the veil it could resemble a Landmaster the signs show so.


Quote:
Originally Posted by motorworks View Post
What is HM trying to do here? Get in to bankruptcy? They have to come to terms with the fact that whatever minor changes they do on the old amby it just wouldnt work! I heard that they were working on an all new amby, if this is the one, then please HM, Please shut shop. It will probably retail for about 6 lakhs and it will not be even be worth 1/4th of its value in 2 days time. Even govt organizations have started buying dzires / manzas etc. Taxis have gone the other way with logans and indica / indigo cs / LWB options.

Still HM could do better than ahat Fiat did last december.

Last edited by rajeev k : 4th January 2011 at 23:59.
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Old 5th January 2011, 00:50   #33
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Default Re: SCOOP : NEW HM AMBASSADOR (CS Version)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1100D View Post

Saw a brand new Ambassador taxi getting the steel bumper retrofitment being done at a local garage today. The cab wallah's are tired of the fibre bumper falling off, so they revert back to the old type.

According to the mechs the front wings/fenders are also more flexible, maybe some sort of an attempt to provide crumple zones (controlled deformation).

.
Are you sure about this? As far as I know the body colored fiber bumper one is the Amby Grand which is essentially targeted at the personal car buyers. Don't know if they still give that option but earlier this one also gave bucket seat an PS options IIANM.

On the other hand the old metal bumper one sells as Amby Classic and is the choice of the taxiwallahs in Kolkata. This one sports the 1.5 L diesel engine.

By the way there is an ironic touch to the amby story. This I was told by one of my friends who is a research analyst with a big firm of world wide repute. On their study of the Indian automotive market they also covered HM. According to him HM is most probably contented with their fixed volumes that they get through sarkari channels plus taxi sales. According to him they have so much of pent-up demand from just the taxi market for replacement and new cars that they can't fulfill these in the next 5 years with their current volumes. Even in Mumbai when PAL folded up there was a brief period when the taxi trade desperately wanted to replace their aging fleet with something as rugged and spacious. Obvious choice was the amby which already floods Bengal. However they got very lukewarm response from HM.

So why is HM doing things which are so counter intuitive? According to the study it is because the current prod line has depreciated many times over and probably just needs minimal investments, most in maintenance. However to do anything a little better, whether in volumes or quality they will need big investments. The owners are shrewd businessmen. They believe the work culture in the plant is so pathetic with it's old unionized ways that putting in more money at this stage in this plant is a very dubious idea. The other option of setting up a brand new plant from scratch in a different place for a car so old is just unthinkable. Hence the net result is that the grand old dame of Indian roads lumbers on without any change.

Quite crazy, isn't it? Frankly I was zapped when I heard this reasoning some years back. And yet it slowly made sense to me. I remembered it now while reading people's reactions here to HM and it's steadfast ways and thought of sharing with you guys.
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Old 5th January 2011, 06:34   #34
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Default Re: SCOOP : NEW HM AMBASSADOR (CS Version)

All Amby's even the 1.5 liter cabs come with Fiber bumpers now, not the steel ones, and I think the fiber ones look much better anyways.
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Old 5th January 2011, 23:42   #35
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Default Re: SCOOP : NEW HM AMBASSADOR (CS Version)

Update! Update! Update!

I will contradict myself today.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1100D View Post
Saw a brand new Ambassador taxi getting the steel bumper retrofitment being done at a local garage today. The cab wallah's are tired of the fibre bumper falling off, so they revert back to the old type.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zappo View Post
Are you sure about this? As far as I know the body colored fiber bumper one is the Amby Grand which is essentially targeted at the personal car buyers.

On the other hand the old metal bumper one sells as Amby Classic and is the choice of the taxiwallahs in Kolkata.
As a matter of fact that was true. I used to know that too. But the newer Amby Taxi's in Kolkata had fibre bumpers front and back. Many were infact the "grand" version.

Quote:
Originally Posted by musicmanaman View Post
All Amby's even the 1.5 liter cabs come with Fiber bumpers now, not the steel ones, and I think the fiber ones look much better anyways.
Well, thats what I also wrote!!

But now, the revelation today!! I got a ride in a day old Amby cab. It had steel bumpers. The driver was very happy that HM has reverted back to the steel one.
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Old 6th January 2011, 02:16   #36
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Default Re: SCOOP : NEW HM AMBASSADOR (CS Version)

Good to hear that Amby got back its unique feature, the steel bumpers. I like the fiber design for its modern look but steel one gives a classic look
The changes are like (atleast in the photo shared); this wouldn't have drawn any attention if it was not masked
Poor man's Camouflage, han!

IMHO, something like the below would do wonders!

Source of pic - Automotive India
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Old 6th January 2011, 14:40   #37
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Default Re: SCOOP : NEW HM AMBASSADOR (CS Version)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zappo View Post
By the way there is an ironic touch to the amby story. This I was told by ...............
So why is HM doing things which are so counter intuitive? According to the study it is because the current prod line has depreciated many times over and probably just needs minimal investments, most in maintenance. However to do anything a little better, whether in volumes or quality they will need big investments. The owners are shrewd businessmen. They believe the work culture in the plant is so pathetic with it's old unionized ways that putting in more money at this stage in this plant is a very dubious idea. The other option of setting up a brand new plant from scratch in a different place for a car so old is just unthinkable. Hence the net result is that the grand old dame of Indian roads lumbers on without any change.
True that. When the recent rush to replace the taxis due to the emission norms came around, HM wasn't able to make it fast enough. I am glad that this resulted in (at least partially) an increase of the Indigo/Marina sales. The 1950's BMC engined Ambassador (the taxi version) needs to be put to sleep.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zappo View Post
Frankly I was zapped when I heard this reasoning some years back.
Did this happen in Oct. 2005 by any chance?

Anyway, if indeed the old Landmaster dies have been resurrected (I somehow don't see them getting new ones), I'm sure quite a few Landmaster owners would be pleased. The rest of us can silently curse HM.
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Old 6th January 2011, 14:58   #38
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Default Re: SCOOP : NEW HM AMBASSADOR (CS Version)

I have been seeing a lot of posts prophesising about Ambassador CS being a hit with taxi operators. I do not think the taxi operators would fall for such gimmicks. Of course, there are some traditional markets such as West Bengal where taxi operators still prefer Ambassadors. In most of India one wouldn't even find drivers to drive them as the newer generation drivers wouldnt care to drive it.

It still remains the humongous, unwieldy, ungainly vehicle even if HM chops off the boot without any other modifications.

Of the old unionized ways at HM: As HM is still active in producing various models of vehicles including Pajero, Lancer etc., I do not think union issues are a hurdle for reinventing the Ambassador.

HM also makes engines and transmission units for other car makers, so the business seems good.
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Old 6th January 2011, 15:12   #39
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Default Re: SCOOP : NEW HM AMBASSADOR (CS Version)

+1 Zappo,

I too heard a similar version of the Work culture and Union issues, some 3 years before, when one of my friend was working on the Vendor base development/ sharing of Vendors from HM, for Nano in Singur near Kolkata,long before the pull off.

But, HM should learn from B'le and Mini if it doesn't want to think about designing new..This itself might provide some more boost for its volumes..Of course, only if it desires so. Even the 'Sarkari babus' are becoming mod now a days and started looking at other options.

Don't know why this early 1950's design is blindly followed in HM.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zappo View Post
Are you sure about this? As far as I know the body colored fiber bumper one is the Amby Grand which is essentially targeted at the personal car buyers. Don't know if they still give that option but earlier this one also gave bucket seat an PS options IIANM.

On the other hand the old metal bumper one sells as Amby Classic and is the choice of the taxiwallahs in Kolkata. This one sports the 1.5 L diesel engine.

By the way there is an ironic touch to the amby story. This I was told by one of my friends who is a research analyst with a big firm of world wide repute. On their study of the Indian automotive market they also covered HM. According to him HM is most probably contented with their fixed volumes that they get through sarkari channels plus taxi sales. According to him they have so much of pent-up demand from just the taxi market for replacement and new cars that they can't fulfill these in the next 5 years with their current volumes. Even in Mumbai when PAL folded up there was a brief period when the taxi trade desperately wanted to replace their aging fleet with something as rugged and spacious. Obvious choice was the amby which already floods Bengal. However they got very lukewarm response from HM.

So why is HM doing things which are so counter intuitive? According to the study it is because the current prod line has depreciated many times over and probably just needs minimal investments, most in maintenance. However to do anything a little better, whether in volumes or quality they will need big investments. The owners are shrewd businessmen. They believe the work culture in the plant is so pathetic with it's old unionized ways that putting in more money at this stage in this plant is a very dubious idea. The other option of setting up a brand new plant from scratch in a different place for a car so old is just unthinkable. Hence the net result is that the grand old dame of Indian roads lumbers on without any change.

Quite crazy, isn't it? Frankly I was zapped when I heard this reasoning some years back. And yet it slowly made sense to me. I remembered it now while reading people's reactions here to HM and it's steadfast ways and thought of sharing with you guys.
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Old 6th January 2011, 19:20   #40
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Default Re: SCOOP : NEW HM AMBASSADOR (CS Version)

Amby can pick well if they really think on these lines
-Good quality body line finish
-Front wheel drive for easier maintenance
-Better engines from Izusu
-All other good quality cosmetic updates

As said by some, it still has a good market in rural & semi rural areas where there are bigger and joint families.

Personally I like Amby than many of the latest cars...
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Old 6th January 2011, 21:00   #41
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Default Re: SCOOP : NEW HM AMBASSADOR (CS Version)

HM has opportunity to do a THAR .

Classic look but everything else is new, resources may be problem for HM though.

Last edited by Jaggu : 6th January 2011 at 21:29. Reason: Removing [Font] tags, please avoid copy pasting from external font editor like word. Do a Preview before Submitting posts.
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Old 6th January 2011, 21:27   #42
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Default Re: SCOOP : NEW HM AMBASSADOR (CS Version)

looks like HM is trying to cash in with the under 4meter car LOL...instead of all these they can concentrate on better interiors with Full size windows (without quarter glass) for front ,power windows,better sound deadening materials ,Stylish Dash

AM SURE IT WILL SELL EQUAL TO INDICAB
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Old 10th January 2011, 10:47   #43
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Default Re: SCOOP : NEW HM AMBASSADOR (CS Version)

Hi everyone. Well first of all great scoop... Its true HM is not going to paint the town with a revolutionary design change. Infact its gonna dissapoint many of you. HM is really paranoid about re-entering the market. The mechanicals , engine, gearbox have seemed to improme but dont expect brakes to be provided with the car ,as they never had any and still follows the trend . All the design changes will be minimalistic and as for as some guys wished for a more modernised A,B,C pillar(on the lines of the volga or even the Holden effigy concept, dont count on it.

As far as the variant shown here is concerned its one of the six variants to be launched by the firm in the coming seasons but wait! dont get your hopes too high i am saying it again its gonna dissapoint you..it did dissapoint the heck out of me.sob.
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Old 10th January 2011, 21:56   #44
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Default Re: SCOOP : NEW HM AMBASSADOR (CS Version)

Quote:
Originally Posted by RGK View Post
Amby can pick well if they really think on these lines
.......
-Front wheel drive for easier maintenance
Agree with your other points, but FWD? Low maintenance.?
Excuse me , but there is a reason why MUVs,SUVs,pick ups,CVs are RWD or primarily RWD.
Sedans maybe RWD for driving pleasure and refinement,but the above segment vehicles are RWD for it's low maintenance,durability,and long life.
The only reasons for FWD will be the slightly better FE,but that doesn't come into factor if taking the total cost of a vehicle over it's lifetime for 3+ years and the second is to fill the pockets of the car makers ,the latter which we are not interested.
If the Amby is made into FWD, i don't see any reason to buy it unless it surpasses the existing benchmarks.

Last edited by DicKy : 10th January 2011 at 22:00.
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Old 10th January 2011, 22:49   #45
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Default Re: SCOOP : NEW HM AMBASSADOR (CS Version)

Wasn't HM supposed to come out with 6 different variants?

If we assume HM management to be smart, this AMBY CS version is a bridging gap till the new designs are ready for production.

This makes sense since Ambassadors retail for close to 5 lacs. With the 4 metre mark and 1200cc petrol (FORD???)/ 1500cc diesel they can outprice even the CS. This makes it a lucrative buy for the taxi market and even for the Indian Junta which is crazy about boots even today. We can only hope they do a retro inside treatment too.

Let us also not forget that Fiat 500, Mini Cooper and VW beetle have been able to successfully do the retro. It is outlandish to think HM can do the same but well, we are a bunch of people with a positive mentality.


The biggest strength is the repair anywhere feature which HM has not marketed to date.


But what about features and quality? What about after sales and service? What about distribution network? The last time I saw a HM dealer in Abad was 5 years ago.


PS: This might not really be a new AMBY but then I trust HM to make big noise before lighting an incense stick.
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