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Old 13th May 2011, 13:30   #16
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Default re: Honda plans diesel City to beat heat from competition EDIT: It's still 2+Years away

Oh yes, finally Honda has decided to listen to customers .
Hope they price it right unlike new Verna which IMHO is obscenely tagged.
Who would wan to invest 12-13 (Bangalore OTR) lacs on a sub standard Korean car?
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Old 13th May 2011, 13:53   #17
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Default re: Honda plans diesel City to beat heat from competition EDIT: It's still 2+Years away

Dear Honda, while you're working on the Diesel engines, please add more features to City without increasing the prices. The current version of City is terribly under-equipped for that price. Hope you realize that also soon.

And this is a quick fix compared to adding a diesel engine.
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Old 13th May 2011, 14:05   #18
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Default re: Honda plans diesel City to beat heat from competition EDIT: It's still 2+Years away

By the time Honda comes in with its diesel in 2 years time the world would have moved much forward. The government fuel pricing policy or an upfront diesel cess on diesel engines might change or spoil the diesel game.
I feel that that gas based vehicles running on CNG/natural gas is the way forward, I understand that the availability of CNG is restricted to very few pockets in our country but where ever gas is available no one looks back at anything else.
I feel Honda should concentrate on augmenting its existing product portfolio and provide value to its customers by offering multiple trim levels & feature options.
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Old 13th May 2011, 14:14   #19
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Default re: Honda plans diesel City to beat heat from competition EDIT: It's still 2+Years away

From the news link:
Quote:
Jnaneswar Sen, senior vice-president (sales & marketing), HSCI, told Business Standard: “We are developing a diesel engine in Japan to power City. It could take us more than two years.”
2 years is long time, the City will be due for replacement by then. Why not position the current line up more competitively with realistic pricing. The current Honda range of cars are pretty good, it's only the over ambitious pricing that's killing them.

Over the years the competition has evolved, it's no longer the 90s with limited choices. Every other manufacturer now has equally competent cars with wider range of options. The customer now is comfortable paying for slanted H, Why should he be charged a premium for straight H?

Diesels no longer have the dirty crude image, the acceptability of modern Diesels with masses is something Honda has always chosen to ignore. Even with the Accord/CRV Diesels they have given the bad Indian fuel excuse, I wonder how all other manufacturer's Diesel engines are doing well with our poor quality fuel.

With the arrival of new Fluidic Verna and Upcoming new Fiesta the buyers will have more options, which should make things tougher for Honda. Unfortunately for Honda all the newer cars are coming with Diesels.
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Old 13th May 2011, 14:33   #20
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Default Re: Honda plans diesel City to beat heat from competition EDIT: It's still 2+Years aw

crazy price indeed! the new fluidic verna at a pretty expensive tag!
better to await the new Ford Fiesta instead i think!

Quote:
Originally Posted by bkbkr1212 View Post
Hope they price it right unlike new Verna which IMHO is obscenely tagged.
Who would wan to invest 12-13 (Bangalore OTR) lacs on a sub standard Korean car?
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Old 13th May 2011, 14:38   #21
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Default Re: Honda plans diesel City to beat heat from competition EDIT: It's still 2+Years aw

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Originally Posted by shankar.balan View Post
crazy price indeed! the new fluidic verna at a pretty expensive tag!
better to await the new Ford Fiesta instead i think!
Yes shankar, with this kind of money why wouldn't someone go for Honda City or a Vento Diesel or SX4 Diesel? Maybe something "wrong" with me, I am not very comfy investing too much money on Hyundai cars.
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Old 13th May 2011, 14:52   #22
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Default Re: Honda plans diesel City to beat heat from competition EDIT: It's still 2+Years aw

Welcome News Indeed! The ANHC was revealed in 2008 , so it looks like the diesel would make its way in the Next Gen City ! I just hope they work on a Diesel for Civic/ Accord too !
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Old 13th May 2011, 15:57   #23
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Default Re: Honda plans diesel City to beat heat from competition EDIT: It's still 2+Years aw

Talk about being slow. Honda is the only mass manufacturer in India today without a diesel engine in its entire portfolio. Maruti was the strongest opponent to subsidisation of diesel, and diesel cars in general. Heard of the idiom "if you cant beat them, join them"? Well, Maruti eventually did just that & look where the company is today! Honda has enough access to research that reliably indicated the Indian buyer's love for diesel. What did they do about it? NOTHING. It's as if Honda has been snoring away the last 3 - 4 years. Seriously, what have they done right?

Either ways, better late than never I guess. From the long-term perspective, Honda will only become stronger with oil-burners.

P.S. Fiat is already the biggest engine supplier in India. And there's talk of a 1.6 MJD coming soon. How's that sound for 'em Hondas? If everyone from Maruti to Tata to Chevrolet can make good use of Fiat engines, why doesn't Honda simply outsource the oil-burner to Fiat?
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Old 13th May 2011, 16:32   #24
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Default Re: Honda plans diesel City to beat heat from competition EDIT: It's still 2+Years aw

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
P.S. Fiat is already the biggest engine supplier in India. And there's talk of a 1.6 MJD coming soon. How's that sound for 'em Hondas? If everyone from Maruti to Tata to Chevrolet can make good use of Fiat engines, why doesn't Honda simply outsource the oil-burner to Fiat?
Your point sounds very good GTO. But, all 3 car manufacturers (Suzuki, Chevy & Tata) apart from Fiat have got the engine/ technology out out some 2 way business agreement at one point or other from Fiat.

If Honda try to source the engine from Fiat, I guess they would end up paying more cost per unit to Fiat, which would definitely push up the cost of Honda City Diesel in next higher category (actually higher than the ANHV top-end) & that too will much lesser feature. It would then face competition from bigger cars like the Cruze, Laura, (New) Jetta, etc, not to forget the Vento, Verna, SX4, Lienea & the likes.

I feel only the Honda badge could be savings grace for the the non-VFM city.
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Old 13th May 2011, 17:26   #25
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Default Re: Honda plans diesel City to beat heat from competition EDIT: It's still 2+Years aw

Honda finally admits what they have been lacking all these years. 2 years is a long time. The diesel market would have changed by then considering the head start almost all manufacturers currently have. Customers wouldn't wait for a Honda City diesel knowing well that Honda are likely to price it outrageously. A price cut for the existing cars in Honda's line up would have helped in the meantime.
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Old 13th May 2011, 17:40   #26
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Default Re: Honda plans diesel City to beat heat from competition EDIT: It's still 2+Years aw

Honda is one company which is independent. I would say forget diesel. Indians would be mighty more impressed with hybrids. For enthusiasts a Honda shifter with a cream butter 4 cylinder engine is always a joy.
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Old 13th May 2011, 18:05   #27
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Default Re: Honda plans diesel City to beat heat from competition EDIT: It's still 2+Years aw

Quote:
Originally Posted by diffsoft View Post

In fact I learn that the pre-owned pricing gap between petrol and diesel has widened far beyond what the ex-showroom price would indicate.

Can you please explain what does pre owner pricing gap mean?
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Old 13th May 2011, 18:19   #28
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Default Re: Honda plans diesel City to beat heat from competition EDIT: It's still 2+Years aw

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Talk about being slow.
Slow or Indifferent? I am yet to see a car manufacturer who can be as indifferent to the pulse of the market/customer as Honda. They just don't give a damn. I still remember one of those heads in Honda saying on TV that they don't want to bring in their diesels because the diesel in India is of poor quality. BMW and Mercedes are selling their diesel cars here for god's sake!

The success of City and Civic may not repeat again if Honda prices, equips and sells their cars the way they damn please without 'learning' from market feedback.
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Old 13th May 2011, 18:23   #29
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Default Re: Honda plans diesel City to beat heat from competition EDIT: It's still 2+Years aw

Quote:
Originally Posted by subscrive View Post
Can you please explain what does pre owner pricing gap mean?
What I meant was the re-sale price gap between 2 equivalent petrol and diesel cars; say a 3 year old high-end Verna petrol and Verna diesel today, was re-selling at "X" and "Y" say 6 months ago, when it was 2.5 years old. But since then re-sale price for the same car (now 3 years) has gone down by say 15% for Verna petrol whereas that of Verna diesel has fallen by only say 8%.

In short, re-sale value of a diesel vehicle has held up better than a similar petrol vehicle. That's mostly because petrol prices have risen faster than diesel and new diesel ex-showroom prices have been slapped with additional taxes in some states.

We know re-sale value has a big impact in the buying decision. So potential Honda buyers will be worried more about their resale value than earlier and that may turn them away to a diesel option which is now available in plenty.

Cheers,

Last edited by diffsoft : 13th May 2011 at 18:25.
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Old 13th May 2011, 18:25   #30
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Default Re: Honda plans diesel City to beat heat from competition EDIT: It's still 2+Years aw

Even if Honda does manage to bring about a diesel unit in the City, I think it will be atleast a lakh more than the vento/Linea and may prove to be a loser. You see, Indians have by now realised who makes the best diesel or petrol engines in the world. Fiat / VW are pioneers in diesel engines and every one knows that Honda is best known for petrol engines only. So I think Honda better shift to alternate methods such as Hybrids etc, where they are already leaps ahead compared to the other manufacturers and use that to set a bench mark in the industry.
And yes, I second the opinion the Business standard has published this article without any concrete evidence.
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