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Old 11th June 2011, 00:06   #76
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Default Re: Alternate Fuels - Any Major Technologies?

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Yes, I am aware of Better Place. I guess you have not noticed I have referred to them in a couple of posts in this thread. The Better Place guys per their website have signed up to enter China as well. If they can make their Chinese foray work, they will have massive economies of scale working for them globally.

The other issue that will need resolution WRT EVs' is the near monopoly of the Chinese on minor metals/rare earth elements, as they are critical to the manufacturing of electric motors. Here is a link to an interesting article on the subject.

I hadn;t checked your earlier posts.

By the way, the link is not working, can you repost it?
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Old 11th June 2011, 00:14   #77
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I hadn;t checked your earlier posts.

By the way, the link is not working, can you repost it?

Here you go......... http://moderntokyotimes.com/2011/04/24/japanís-approach-to-chinaís-control-of-rare-earth-elements/
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Old 11th June 2011, 00:23   #78
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Thanks for posting it.


Rare-earths produce radioactive waste (low-level, not the nuclear-power kind) and is environmentally unfriendly so it shifted to China from US over the last two decades.

For the last 5years I have been praying to God that our government privatize Bharat Rare Earths so I could buy some stocks ... alas !

The earliest scheduled non-China capacity addition to the rare-earths is expected to be in Malaysia.

Also several EV guys are going for motors that do not use permanent magnets at all (e.g. induction motors) to solve exactly the China problem. Tesla and GM for example use induction motors.
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Old 17th June 2011, 20:02   #79
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A very interesting link with loads of drool material albeit in the hybrid space,

Green supercars that you will be able to drive soon | Penn Alternative Fuels and Energy

Two of the most interesting under development are [1] the Beemer with a 3 pot diesel and [2] the CMT 380 with a CAPSTONE micro turbine much like BHPian SGIITK is talking about. Let us see which of these finally make it to market.
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Old 18th June 2011, 16:31   #80
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A guy has used oil extracted from turmeric leaves to make fuel. Now this is a first.

check this linky for more details

This 21-year-old pharmacy student has created an alternative fuel from turmeric leaves that promises to be eco-friendly and cheaper than petrol.

Pune Mirror
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Old 19th June 2011, 00:26   #81
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Default Re: Alternate Fuels - Any Major Technologies?

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A guy has used oil extracted from turmeric leaves to make fuel. Now this is a first.

check this linky for more details

This 21-year-old pharmacy student has created an alternative fuel from turmeric leaves that promises to be eco-friendly and cheaper than petrol.

Pune Mirror

There is no evidence to support his claim that it could be Rs. 20 cheaper than petrol - even if right now nobody cares about the leaves and so they may be pretty much free, once you use them as fuel this will not longer be the case.

With the (most likely) miniscule fuel you'll get from the leaves, farming it merely to produce fuel will not make sense. And I don't think we produce enough turmeric to have enough from leaves as a byproduct.
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Old 19th June 2011, 03:48   #82
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There is no evidence to support his claim that it could be Rs. 20 cheaper than petrol - even if right now nobody cares about the leaves and so they may be pretty much free, once you use them as fuel this will not longer be the case.

With the (most likely) miniscule fuel you'll get from the leaves, farming it merely to produce fuel will not make sense. And I don't think we produce enough turmeric to have enough from leaves as a byproduct.
well that has been the case.. hasn't it?? prices of all the raw materials which can be potentially used to extract bio-fuels have shot through the roof.. But I guess this case would be different.

How the other raw-materials have only one utilization. a turmeric tree would have 2. though we have to wait to know the exact implications.

Also we are forgetting one thing over here this turmeric oil can also be an alternative to ethanol.

I guess if there are multiple sources of alternative fuel then at least there wouldn't be a lot of pressure on one particular fuel. I mean a country can adopt an alternative fuel which is most viable for it.
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Old 19th June 2011, 09:06   #83
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There is no evidence to support his claim that it could be Rs. 20 cheaper than petrol - even if right now nobody produce enough turmeric to have enough from leaves as a byproduct.

In the context of this thread I will submit that as long as there is ambiguity about the direction forward from ICE block vehicles such claims/news items will keep on surfacing. While the drive shown by the young man in this news item is commendable , as you rightly point out, in the real world taking this development to the level of real world application with the economics that can enable scaling it to a viable level of rollout is a big big question mark.

As of this moment to me the most desirable/ideal end goal seems to be a EV which is able to remove the smoke from the tail pipe or better put remove the tail pipe altogether. However that does not seem to be happening for a wide variety of reasons.

In the interim, with my superficial level of comprehension of the subject, I see a solution evolving around plug in hybrids where fuel consumption can be reduced by a factor of 4-5 with an onboard genset. In this context as asserted by SGIITK in this thread and elsewhere on the board on the subject, the most desirable alternative seems to be a microturbine charging the battery pack. The prototype by Jaguar and work in this direction by Capstone Microturbines seems encouraging. A microturbine fired by CNG/petrol/diesel feeding the batteries is something that may come to pass in the foreseeable future.

I wonder if anyone is foolhardy enough to do a DIY on this. If I can muster the resources I sure as hell would love to do it.
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Old 19th June 2011, 09:37   #84
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One more thing - tax component in Petrol is over Rs.30 per litre!
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Old 19th June 2011, 10:09   #85
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A microturbine fired by CNG/petrol/diesel feeding the batteries is something that may come to pass in the foreseeable future.
A neat possibility. Not Eco but alternate and viable nevertheless.
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Old 25th June 2011, 08:38   #86
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Though there are very many ideas/areas which are being explored, the hybrid is may be the most imminent and practical as of now, until a new, commercially viable technology is developed.
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Old 16th July 2011, 01:28   #87
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Bloom energy solid oxide fuel technology seems promising.

Here is the link - Bloom Energy | Be The Solution | Solid Oxide Fuel Cells: How it works
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Old 16th July 2011, 02:12   #88
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Default Re: Alternate Fuels - Any Major Technologies?

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Bloom energy solid oxide fuel technology seems promising.

Here is the link - Bloom Energy | Be The Solution | Solid Oxide Fuel Cells: How it works

Is this relevant to automobiles?

The thing gives 100kW and weighs 10tonnes.
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Old 16th July 2011, 03:47   #89
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Is this relevant to automobiles?

The thing gives 100kW and weighs 10tonnes.
It seems to produce hydrogen which could be used for fuel cells. So, I assumed there is potential.

May be in current form it could power trains?
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Old 16th July 2011, 04:41   #90
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It seems to produce hydrogen which could be used for fuel cells. So, I assumed there is potential.

May be in current form it could power trains?

Well it generates protons (hydrogen ion) as an intermediate - it is promptly consumed within the cell - and next to impossible to generate H2 in any form.

Trains run on several MW (that's right) e.g. :

Indian locomotive class WDM-2 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia - 2MW loco from 60s

Indian locomotive class WAG-9 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia - latest Indian locos @ 5MW

Locomotives in India - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia a full list - latest locos are over 5MW


Also TGVs and other fast trains the word over run at several tens of MW.




The Fuel cell in question may be useful for static power generation for homes etc. as a backup supply or for supplying to relatively remote areas

Last edited by vina : 16th July 2011 at 04:46.
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