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Old 27th May 2011, 00:42   #46
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Default Re: *Attached* : Fuel cost calculator, including a comparison between Petrol & Diesel

I bought my first diesel car, a Hyundai Accent CRDi, in 2003. Back then I did the rounds and was test driving every car available south of 10 lakhs. I just hated the petrol Accent but the moment I depressed the throttle on the CRDi, I fell in love. What a rush! Ever since then I have sworn off petrol cars.
Even if there is price parity between petrol and diesel fuel i would still pay a premium and go for a diesel car for the following reasons:

1) Initial Cost of Ownership - Today there is a diesel option available at all but the lowest price point even though there might be a significant difference between the petrol and diesel option of the same MODEL of car. So, if economy is the ONLY criterion as i suspect it is for many in this country then price of the car is not a factor.

2) Efficiency - Diesels are more efficient. If we take the example of the Accent (which btw i still have, 8 years down the line, absolutely trouble free), the petrol Accent averages around 10 kmpl overall while the diesel does 14kmpl. More efficiency + price difference = DIESEL WINS. I made up the extra i spent on the car in about 2 years according to my calculation.

3) Drivability - Diesels are better to drive in the real world. The reason for this is simple...TORQUE. You have to mash the throttle and really rev MOST petrol engines to get them to pull, with a modern diesel, all it takes is a tiny nudge of your right foot. You can go on and on ad nauseum about free revving petrols and all that but the fact of the matter is in day to day traffic, at a signal, a diesel will almost always be the winner. And more torque also means the car does not flounder when loaded with 5 people like you so OBVIOUSLY feel in petrol cars, even expensive ones.

4) Maintenance costs - diesels are no longer...i repeat no longer more expensive to maintain as far as pms is concerned. I have averaged just 5000 to 8000 per year for the last 8 years. It is a MYTH that diesels cost more to maintain. Mom's old Santro was costing the same (about 4000 per service) and i'm so happy i got rid of it and got her a Vista Quadrajet and then a Logan DCI.

5) Reliability - never had a single breakdown till now. On any of the diesels. Have had several in a maruti 800 and a maruti 1000 that we used to own but never in a diesel car.

6) NVH - though definitely noisier than their petrol counterparts, modern diesels are silent enough, and actually purr while cruising. This is a matter of personal taste but i really love that diesel thrum and cant figure out why people go on and on about diesel CLATTER...they only CLATTER when the car is idling from a cold start, and cars are meant to be DRIVEN, not switched on and left to IDLE. Then again there are some horrible sounding, LOUD (from the outside) petrols as well (eg. the Ford Figo).

7) Being clean and green and eco friendly- modern diesels are cleaner than petrol engines, period. Lower CO2, no CO, less NOx over the life of the car and less HC emissions. Particulates are a problem modern particulate filters see to those as well. There are countries in Europe that recycle used frying oil and covert it to diesel. Many older diesels can be modified to run on most vegetable oils.

8)Power and Fun to drive factor - today it is the diesels that outperform the petrols in many cases, and many model lines are actually more fun to drive than their petrol counterparts. Anyone who has driven a diesel BMW CANNOT DISAGREE with me!
And for all you fuming petrol heads out there i have just these words to say to you before i sign off - "AUDI AT LE MANS" !!

DIESEL RULES...! (until every car runs on HYDROGEN that is!!)
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Old 27th May 2011, 10:15   #47
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Default Re: *Attached* : Fuel cost calculator, including a comparison between Petrol & Diesel

A very genuine and realistic calculation Delta Wing. Effort appreciated.
The petrol prices these days are actually burning a huge hole in your pocket. The rise never seems to stop. They say the price hike is only 50% of what they actually thought of.
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Old 27th May 2011, 11:01   #48
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Default Re: *Attached* : Fuel cost calculator, including a comparison between Petrol & Diesel

check out the following article in ET

How you can reduce the strain on your budget caused by the recent petrol price hike - Economic Times
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Old 27th May 2011, 11:16   #49
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Default Re: *Attached* : Fuel cost calculator, including a comparison between Petrol & Diesel

Cap your ECUs at 3k revs.
That seems to be the "handcuff" solution that may be needed by free revvin' petrolheads like us.
or move to venezuela!
Geez,within this year a tankfull has gone up by almost 900 bucks(?)
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Old 27th May 2011, 11:19   #50
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Default Re: *Attached* : Fuel cost calculator, including a comparison between Petrol & Diesel

Quote:
Originally Posted by el lobo 6061 View Post
Let me put forth my point and its a brain teaser.
I purchased a VW Vento TDi Highline costing Rs. 9,13,000 Ex-Showroom Vashi, Navi Mumbai on 4 Apr 2011. I had booked my car on 25 Dec 2010. In Dec 2010, Honda City V MT cost was 9,13,000. So the difference between the two cars diesel and petrol is a big 0. So I didn't pay any premium for diesel car. So every kilometer I drive, I save money. .
Hey, lobo, that's a great deal you got.
I would agree with you here that you paid no premium for the oil burner diesel car. So,practically your break-even period is zero. You have brought about a new perspective.
But mostly, comparison's here were being made on the basis of the price of diesel and petrol versions of the same car and equitable trim levels, but then you have a point too.
So, if you are willing to look at cheaper diesel cars of different brands that fits within the budget of your choice of Petrol car, then nothing like it.

@Mr. Bangalore, I have already posted the same link in the last page.
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Old 27th May 2011, 12:26   #51
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Default Re: *Attached* : Fuel cost calculator, including a comparison between Petrol & Diesel

Quote:
Originally Posted by hossdoc View Post
I bought my first diesel car, a Hyundai Accent CRDi, in 2003. Back then I did the rounds and was test driving every car available south of 10 lakhs. I just hated the petrol Accent but the moment I depressed the throttle on the CRDi, I fell in love. What a rush! Ever since then I have sworn off petrol cars.
Even if there is price parity between petrol and diesel fuel i would still pay a premium and go for a diesel car for the following reasons:

1) Initial Cost of Ownership - Today there is a diesel option available at all but the lowest price point even though there might be a significant difference between the petrol and diesel option of the same MODEL of car. So, if economy is the ONLY criterion as i suspect it is for many in this country then price of the car is not a factor.

2) Efficiency - Diesels are more efficient. If we take the example of the Accent (which btw i still have, 8 years down the line, absolutely trouble free), the petrol Accent averages around 10 kmpl overall while the diesel does 14kmpl. More efficiency + price difference = DIESEL WINS. I made up the extra i spent on the car in about 2 years according to my calculation.

3) Drivability - Diesels are better to drive in the real world. The reason for this is simple...TORQUE. You have to mash the throttle and really rev MOST petrol engines to get them to pull, with a modern diesel, all it takes is a tiny nudge of your right foot. You can go on and on ad nauseum about free revving petrols and all that but the fact of the matter is in day to day traffic, at a signal, a diesel will almost always be the winner. And more torque also means the car does not flounder when loaded with 5 people like you so OBVIOUSLY feel in petrol cars, even expensive ones.

4) Maintenance costs - diesels are no longer...i repeat no longer more expensive to maintain as far as pms is concerned. I have averaged just 5000 to 8000 per year for the last 8 years. It is a MYTH that diesels cost more to maintain. Mom's old Santro was costing the same (about 4000 per service) and i'm so happy i got rid of it and got her a Vista Quadrajet and then a Logan DCI.

5) Reliability - never had a single breakdown till now. On any of the diesels. Have had several in a maruti 800 and a maruti 1000 that we used to own but never in a diesel car.

6) NVH - though definitely noisier than their petrol counterparts, modern diesels are silent enough, and actually purr while cruising. This is a matter of personal taste but i really love that diesel thrum and cant figure out why people go on and on about diesel CLATTER...they only CLATTER when the car is idling from a cold start, and cars are meant to be DRIVEN, not switched on and left to IDLE. Then again there are some horrible sounding, LOUD (from the outside) petrols as well (eg. the Ford Figo).

7) Being clean and green and eco friendly- modern diesels are cleaner than petrol engines, period. Lower CO2, no CO, less NOx over the life of the car and less HC emissions. Particulates are a problem modern particulate filters see to those as well. There are countries in Europe that recycle used frying oil and covert it to diesel. Many older diesels can be modified to run on most vegetable oils.

8)Power and Fun to drive factor - today it is the diesels that outperform the petrols in many cases, and many model lines are actually more fun to drive than their petrol counterparts. Anyone who has driven a diesel BMW CANNOT DISAGREE with me!
And for all you fuming petrol heads out there i have just these words to say to you before i sign off - "AUDI AT LE MANS" !!

DIESEL RULES...! (until every car runs on HYDROGEN that is!!)
Great points, and before i put forward my points I think at the end of the day these are personal points and choices (I mean the points that i'm going to make).

Personally, I prefer BHP over NM.

For example on the power and fun to drive factor Diesel just does not ignite the spark in me. For me its petrol all the way, I've driven the best inline diesel engines of the BMW which are magnificent and brilliant as long as you don't compare it to the best of petrol engines that BMW makes.

For us petrol heads, logic generally don't tend to go inline with our thinking. Hence its difficult to articulate the 'feel' factor. Its more emotional than logical. Again, strictly personal.

And, before i sign off - '24 Cars in Formula 1'
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Old 27th May 2011, 13:41   #52
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Smile Re: *Attached* : Fuel cost calculator, including a comparison between Petrol & Diesel

One important point that somehow is not brought up (Mods, apologies if the way I've put the post is not allowed. But, I just couldn't resist it):

Economical guy (EG)
- sounding very intelligent, with spreadsheets to prove his point: "See, diesel is at 43 and petrol at 70. It makes more sense to buy a diesel car if your running's greater than xx kms/yr."

Petrolhead (PH) - tired at the same discussion again & again: "I agree. But one thing you tend to forget is that if you get a diesel car, you'll think the fuel costs are so low and probably go to Matheran (70 kms from Mumbai) in your car 5 times out of 5. I probably would take it to Matheran only 3 times out of 5 and take a local the other 2 times. So, there isn't an apple to apple comparison."

EG - still sounding superior: "If you can't take your car where you want to, what's the point of getting a car. (sounding even more superior) A car is for fun, right?"

PH - finally exasperated, "Then get a petrol, silly!"

Sorry for what you had to bear through . And I know I'll never make a novelist. But, the point I was trying to make was:

The extra diesel car cost is a sunk cost and since you have already made that investment, you try to get the maximum bang for your (extra) buck and be generous in it's usage. While a petrol car owner tends to be more frugal. Hence, the break-even could be longer than the spread-sheet projected x.x yrs. And if you say, what's the point if you can't have fun in your car, I'll repeat what PH said above, "Then get a petrol, silly!".

Another important point is that the extra upfront investment for diesel is in today's money while the regular petrol expenses will be at a later date when hopefully, your salary would have increased at a pace faster than inflation.

To summarize: Spreadsheets are only that. Numbers. And the answers they give will never be accurate for they can't capture the human psyche.

Petrol: Rs 70
Diesel: Rs 43
Joy (and whatever gives you that - 'savings' or 'redlining'): Priceless
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Old 27th May 2011, 13:52   #53
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Default Re: *Attached* : Fuel cost calculator, including a comparison between Petrol & Diesel

lets not do the petrol vs diesel bashing here.
this is a snake that wont die ever.
lets all just acknowledge that petrol guys will be that, and diesel guys will be that.
and that there might be conversions on the way.
its been done to death, and i am just talking about TBHP.

they have their relative merits and demerits, and its about the hundred and thirty eleventh time i have read the same justifications on how diesel is better.
always.

lets have some boundaries between freedom and my nose...
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Old 27th May 2011, 13:54   #54
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Default Re: *Attached* : Fuel cost calculator, including a comparison between Petrol & Diesel

Quote:
Originally Posted by manishk83 View Post
EG - still sounding superior: "If you can't take your car where you want to, what's the point of getting a car. (sounding even more superior) A car is for fun, right?"
PH - finally exasperated, "Then get a petrol, silly!"
Sorry for what you had to bear through . And I know I'll never make a novelist.
Manish, you have writing skills, try harder and you can become a novelist.
And while I am happy reading your post, but then spreadsheets are not a complete waste.
The calculations have been done assuming that both diesel and petrol car run same number of kms in a year. It is true spreadsheets can never give a true complete picture whatever assumption you build in but they do give a fair idea.
But your argument is fun, no doubt!
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Old 27th May 2011, 14:06   #55
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Excellent effort, but I still feel it's a biased comparison as it really doesn't highlight the positives of petrol. Even if the petrol/diesel price comes to par, the sheet shows diesel is the clear winner in terms of numbers just bcoz of better FE.

It we could quantify other factors like maintenance, drivebility, delay in delivery in some way, it will make for a much better comparison.

and guys for god sake, can someone please write something good about a petrol car ... after the recent petrol rate hike, all threads on TBHP are bashing up the petrol cars. For once can someone let me feel good about my car

Last edited by benbsb29 : 27th May 2011 at 15:39. Reason: Merging back-to-back posts.
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Old 27th May 2011, 14:14   #56
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Default Re: *Attached* : Fuel cost calculator, including a comparison between Petrol & Diesel

Since i do not get along very well with numbers, if we were to take too models from the same stable, where there is a difference in prices between a petrol model and the diesel (and sometimes significant ones) and given that a lot of people take loans wouldn't the interest component play a part?
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Old 27th May 2011, 14:19   #57
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Default Re: *Attached* : Fuel cost calculator, including a comparison between Petrol & Diesel

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Originally Posted by markmytravel View Post
and guys for god sake, can someone please write something good about a petrol car ... after the recent petrol rate hike, all threads on TBHP are bashing up the petrol cars. For once can someone let me feel good about my car
Just for you,

- Petrol cars are easy to maintain with less wear and tear parts
- They are quite and sometimes you cant make out if they are on ( I love beat for this)
- They are peppy and have got good top speeds.
- They dont pollute much as diesel cars
- They are light weight
- They are cheaper to buy
- You have an option of installing LPG Kit.

hope this should help. ( but no petrol car owner can feel happy inspite of all this because the bottom line is the petrol price and it pricks every time you fill the tank)
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Old 27th May 2011, 14:30   #58
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Default Re: *Attached* : Fuel cost calculator, including a comparison between Petrol & Diesel

Quote:
Originally Posted by markmytravel View Post
and guys for god sake, can someone please write something good about a petrol car ... after the recent petrol rate hike, all threads on TBHP are bashing up the petrol cars. For once can someone let me feel good about my car
take a look at the nurburgring laptimes, and see where the diesels make their entry.....

EDIT: CNG/LPG fitment, is it done now on diesels?
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Old 27th May 2011, 14:38   #59
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Default Re: *Attached* : Fuel cost calculator, including a comparison between Petrol & Diesel

Quote:
Originally Posted by rvmohankumar View Post
Just for you,

- They dont pollute much as diesel cars
modern diesel engines are more efficient and they cause less polution than their petrol counterparts. diesel is a cleaner fuel than petrol and burns more completely.
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Old 27th May 2011, 15:14   #60
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Default Re: *Attached* : Fuel cost calculator, including a comparison between Petrol & Diesel

Quote:
Originally Posted by infotech58 View Post
modern diesel engines are more efficient and they cause less polution than their petrol counterparts. diesel is a cleaner fuel than petrol and burns more completely.
Here is what Centre of Science and Environment has to say.
Quote:
Centre for Science and Environment says that diesel might be a more efficient fuel but emissions from its burning are almost seven times higher than from petrol. "Clean diesel with 10ppm of sulphur is still not available in the India
look at the 2nd link of post no. 22 in this thread.Have taken this text from there.
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