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Old 27th May 2011, 15:21   #61
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Default Re: *Attached* : Fuel cost calculator, including a comparison between Petrol & Diesel

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Originally Posted by mayankk View Post

CNG/LPG fitment, is it done now on diesels?
CNG suitable for diesel engine & LPG for petrol engines.
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Old 27th May 2011, 15:23   #62
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Default Re: *Attached* : Fuel cost calculator, including a comparison between Petrol & Diesel

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Originally Posted by rvmohankumar View Post
Just for you,

- Petrol cars are easy to maintain with less wear and tear parts
- They are quite and sometimes you cant make out if they are on ( I love beat for this)
- They are peppy and have got good top speeds.
- They dont pollute much as diesel cars
- They are light weight
- They are cheaper to buy
- You have an option of installing LPG Kit.

hope this should help. ( but no petrol car owner can feel happy inspite of all this because the bottom line is the petrol price and it pricks every time you fill the tank)
-Diesels and petrols cost pretty much the same to maintain. Most cars now have a 15000 km service cycle anyway
-you have noisy petrols and quiet diesels..it is more of a design thing
-in standard driving conditions diesels are actually peppier because of better torque. Who redlines their car all the time? Modern diesels also have awesome top speeds and are more efficient at higher speeds. Drive at a constant speed above 120 kmph in a petrol and you will see your mileage drop drastically.
-Diesels are actually less polluting
-weight difference is negligible and does not make any difference in day to day driving
-there is a diesel at every price point today
-LPG...REALLY? Even in a city like Cochin LPG is hard to come by. Also you pay extra for the kit whether as a factory fitted option or as a retrofit which kind of negates this argument. Add to that the poor power delivery, increased wear on the engine and much lower mileage that LPG gives and you don't save much at all.
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Old 27th May 2011, 15:56   #63
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Default Re: *Attached* : Fuel cost calculator, including a comparison between Petrol & Diesel

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Originally Posted by hossdoc View Post
-Diesels and petrols cost pretty much the same to maintain. Most cars now have a 15000 km service cycle anyway
-you have noisy petrols and quiet diesels..it is more of a design thing
-in standard driving conditions diesels are actually peppier because of better torque. Who redlines their car all the time? Modern diesels also have awesome top speeds and are more efficient at higher speeds. Drive at a constant speed above 120 kmph in a petrol and you will see your mileage drop drastically.
-Diesels are actually less polluting
-weight difference is negligible and does not make any difference in day to day driving
-there is a diesel at every price point today
-LPG...REALLY? Even in a city like Cochin LPG is hard to come by. Also you pay extra for the kit whether as a factory fitted option or as a retrofit which kind of negates this argument. Add to that the poor power delivery, increased wear on the engine and much lower mileage that LPG gives and you don't save much at all.
-diesels are less polluting in co2, but make up in PM.
-that there is a diesel at a every pricepoint is misleading, because a similar spec petrol(equipment wise) is still cheaper.
-recommended interval of service is still lower for diesel.when people get it done is a variable judged by the user.

plus, fixed cost of service(the amount that has already been charged once the car enters the worksop), for ford again, there is a difference of rs 5k cumulatively till the 10th service.additional parts etc extra.
indicatively, a fuel filter for petrol retailed at palika in delhi for 400 bucks, a diesel one for about 1300.

just saying.
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Old 27th May 2011, 15:59   #64
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Default Re: *Attached* : Fuel cost calculator, including a comparison between Petrol & Diesel

just to clarify a point i.e. pollution raised in two of the previous posts :

Petrol vehicles are higher on carbon monoxide type pollution.
Diesels vehicles are higher or suspended particulate matter (SPM) pollution.

Having said that, drop for drop, diesel is a cleaner burning fuel as it extracts or burns more of the energy in the fuel. Rather the gist is something similar to that. Experts please chime in to provide additional clarity.
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Old 27th May 2011, 16:46   #65
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[quote=manishk83;

Joy (and whatever gives you that - 'savings' or 'redlining'): Priceless[/QUOTE]

Well, modern diesels give you both. My trips to the filling station are noticeably less frequent; and oh, the torque , is addictive.

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Originally Posted by hossdoc View Post
.
8)Power and Fun to drive factor - today it is the diesels that outperform the petrols in many cases, and many model lines are actually more fun to drive than their petrol counterparts. Anyone who has driven a diesel BMW CANNOT DISAGREE with me!
And for all you fuming petrol heads out there i have just these words to say to you before i sign off - "AUDI AT LE MANS" !!

DIESEL RULES...! (until every car runs on HYDROGEN that is!!)
As a recent convert from a petrol head to a diesel fan, every point of yours resonates. The engine note too sounds glorious now.

Last edited by mobike008 : 28th May 2011 at 17:13. Reason: back to back posts
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Old 27th May 2011, 18:11   #66
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Default Re: *Attached* : Fuel cost calculator, including a comparison between Petrol & Diesel

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Originally Posted by mayankk View Post
take a look at the nurburgring laptimes, and see where the diesels make their entry.....

EDIT: CNG/LPG fitment, is it done now on diesels?
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Originally Posted by tj123 View Post
CNG suitable for diesel engine & LPG for petrol engines.
Both LPG and CNG can be installed only in Petrol engines.

Diesel engines does not support alternate gaseous fuels.
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Old 27th May 2011, 19:36   #67
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Default Re: *Attached* : Fuel cost calculator, including a comparison between Petrol & Diesel

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Originally Posted by Turbo Head View Post
Both LPG and CNG can be installed only in Petrol engines.

Diesel engines does not support alternate gaseous fuels.
I do believe diesels can be modified to run on CNG / LNG. I am not great with the technical side of things being a vet but basically from what i understand cng is injected along with the diesel. The small amount of diesel initiates the combustion of the CNG thus obviating the need for spark plugs. Engines thus modified can run on an 80:20 ratio of CNG to Diesel or on Diesel alone, whereas petrol engines can run on 100 percent CNG.
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Old 27th May 2011, 19:54   #68
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Default Re: *Attached* : Fuel cost calculator, including a comparison between Petrol & Diesel

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Originally Posted by hossdoc View Post
I do believe diesels can be modified to run on CNG / LNG. I am not great with the technical side of things being a vet but basically from what i understand cng is injected along with the diesel. The small amount of diesel initiates the combustion of the CNG thus obviating the need for spark plugs. Engines thus modified can run on an 80:20 ratio of CNG to Diesel or on Diesel alone, whereas petrol engines can run on 100 percent CNG.
On paper this might be true but I have serious apprehension regarding the practical implementation of the same. Also there is no point in running a vehicle compulsorily on dual fuels. Experts may advice us better.
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Old 27th May 2011, 20:04   #69
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Originally Posted by azeemhafiz View Post
Great points, and before i put forward my points I think at the end of the day these are personal points and choices (I mean the points that i'm going to make).

Personally, I prefer BHP over NM.

For example on the power and fun to drive factor Diesel just does not ignite the spark in me. For me its petrol all the way, I've driven the best inline diesel engines of the BMW which are magnificent and brilliant as long as you don't compare it to the best of petrol engines that BMW makes.

For us petrol heads, logic generally don't tend to go inline with our thinking. Hence its difficult to articulate the 'feel' factor. Its more emotional than logical. Again, strictly personal.

And, before i sign off - '24 Cars in Formula 1'
That is just my point. You can have BHP and NM with a good diesel these days.
As far as BMW goes their diesels just rock. I am not talking about M engines. In the 3 series for example the 330D AND 335D, unfortunately not available in India, easily match the 335i, which has their "best" petrol in the category? The 535 D actually gets to the ton QUICKER than the 535i. The 550i does not count because it has 2 cylinders and 1400 CC more, but it is just half a second quicker to the ton than the 535D.
If you match capacity for capacity BMWs diesels are FAR superior because they are supremely efficient as well as orgasmic to drive.
What makes their diesels better to drive is simply the way they DELIVER that power, thanks to all that low end torque. Oh, and they are vroomingly free revving as well!! Is it any wonder that they regularly beat petrol engines at world engine of the year awards?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbo Head View Post
On paper this might be true but I have serious apprehension regarding the practical implementation of the same. Also there is no point in running a vehicle compulsorily on dual fuels. Experts may advice us better.
It is being implemented quite widely from what i have read. Many trucks in the US run such set ups because diesel is expensive. Cummins and other companies have solutions to modify diesels to run in this fashion. Like i said, the small amount of diesel is necessary as a pilot injection to facilitate combustion of the CNG without a spark plug.

Last edited by Eddy : 27th May 2011 at 20:20. Reason: Please use the edit / multiquote option instead of posting back to back posts within 30 mins. Thanks.
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Old 27th May 2011, 20:21   #70
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Default Re: *Attached* : Fuel cost calculator, including a comparison between Petrol & Diesel

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Originally Posted by Turbo Head View Post
On paper this might be true but I have serious apprehension regarding the practical implementation of the same. Also there is no point in running a vehicle compulsorily on dual fuels. Experts may advice us better.
Also the reports say that there is an improvement in power when running such an injection set up, so i would see that as a valid point in doing it. More power plus more economy is always welcome!
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Old 27th May 2011, 20:22   #71
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Default Re: *Attached* : Fuel cost calculator, including a comparison between Petrol & Diesel

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Originally Posted by manishk83 View Post

The extra diesel car cost is a sunk cost and since you have already made that investment, you try to get the maximum bang for your (extra) buck and be generous in it's usage.
Not raking up any debate but I strongly disagree on this point with respect to extra amount being paid on diesel car is sunken cost, since you tend to recover that amt (close to 60%-80% of the extra cost) when you sell your diesel car.
And who knows you may even recover 100% of your extra diesel car cost when there is demand for diesel cars in the market in current economic scenario.
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Old 27th May 2011, 20:39   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hossdoc

That is just my point. You can have BHP and NM with a good diesel these days.
As far as BMW goes their diesels just rock. I am not talking about M engines. In the 3 series for example the 330D AND 335D, unfortunately not available in India, easily match the 335i, which has their "best" petrol in the category? The 535 D actually gets to the ton QUICKER than the 535i. The 550i does not count because it has 2 cylinders and 1400 CC more, but it is just half a second quicker to the ton than the 535D.
If you match capacity for capacity BMWs diesels are FAR superior because they are supremely efficient as well as orgasmic to drive.
What makes their diesels better to drive is simply the way they DELIVER that power, thanks to all that low end torque. Oh, and they are vroomingly free revving as well!! Is it any wonder that they regularly beat petrol engines at world engine of the year awards?

It is being implemented quite widely from what i have read. Many trucks in the US run such set ups because diesel is expensive. Cummins and other companies have solutions to modify diesels to run in this fashion. Like i said, the small amount of diesel is necessary as a pilot injection to facilitate combustion of the CNG without a spark plug.
Well we agree to disagree then. If you need an apple to apple comparison let's look at similar engines. As you pointed out that it is not fair comparing the 550i to the 530d let's not compare let's say the swift petrol to swift diesel or any other cars. It's not fair is it?

Why? Most of the oil burners depend on turbo, where as the petrol's are NA engines. I'd love to see a NA diesel engine beat an NA petrol engine on stats. Now for a similar comparison let's look at Laura. Although the 2.0 diesel is powerful and a wonderful engine it gets blown away into crude by the petrol counterpart 1.8 TSi. Now that to me is a fair comparison. (although the petrol is 200 cc less).

Diesels are nice and torquey in large thanks to their turbo, put a turbo on petrol and quite honestly it will put the oil burner counterpart to shame.
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Old 27th May 2011, 21:17   #73
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Default Re: *Attached* : Fuel cost calculator, including a comparison between Petrol & Diesel

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Originally Posted by hell_rider View Post
just to clarify a point i.e. pollution raised in two of the previous posts :

Petrol vehicles are higher on carbon monoxide type pollution.
Diesels vehicles are higher or suspended particulate matter (SPM) pollution.

Having said that, drop for drop, diesel is a cleaner burning fuel as it extracts or burns more of the energy in the fuel. Rather the gist is something similar to that. Experts please chime in to provide additional clarity.
1) Carbon Dioxide - GREENHOUSE GAS - Diesels emit lower CO2 per km run.
2) Carbon Monoxide - HIGHLY TOXIC GAS - Minimal in Diesel engines. Also well controlled in petrol engines with catalytic converters but STILL HIGH IN THE WARM UP PHASE.
3)NOx - SMOG PRODUCING GAS - even stevens here. New diesel engines produce more NOx but petrols produce more over time.
4) Hydrocarbons eg: Benzene -CARCINOGENIC - Much lower in diesels
5) Suspended particulate matter - WIDE RANGE OF ADVERSE HEALTH EFFECTS - HIGH WITH DIESELS. PARTICULATE FILTERS address this in new engines but this is a huge problem with old diesels.

To sum up
-----------
NEITHER petrol NOR diesel is good for the environment! But since these are the two commonly available choices we are limited to, in general, a diesel is a better choice (environmentally speaking) for
1) Larger Vehicles
2) Vehicles which will run a lot in their lifetime
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Old 27th May 2011, 21:28   #74
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Default Re: *Attached* : Fuel cost calculator, including a comparison between Petrol & Diesel

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Originally Posted by azeemhafiz View Post
Well we agree to disagree then. If you need an apple to apple comparison let's look at similar engines. As you pointed out that it is not fair comparing the 550i to the 530d let's not compare let's say the swift petrol to swift diesel or any other cars. It's not fair is it?

Why? Most of the oil burners depend on turbo, where as the petrol's are NA engines. I'd love to see a NA diesel engine beat an NA petrol engine on stats. Now for a similar comparison let's look at Laura. Although the 2.0 diesel is powerful and a wonderful engine it gets blown away into crude by the petrol counterpart 1.8 TSi. Now that to me is a fair comparison. (although the petrol is 200 cc less).

Diesels are nice and torquey in large thanks to their turbo, put a turbo on petrol and quite honestly it will put the oil burner counterpart to shame.
true.
for lemans only diesels are turbo'd.
there is a restriction for petrols using it.
cc for cc, NA petrol will get ahead of a NA diesel, far ahead.
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Old 27th May 2011, 21:56   #75
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Default Re: *Attached* : Fuel cost calculator, including a comparison between Petrol & Diesel

Very interesting thread indeed !! I have had diesel vehicles for their sheer mileage, started out with a Indica V2 & post that a

#Scorpio
#Octavia 1.9
#Accent Viva Diesel
#Audi A4
#E 250D
#Pajero 1
#Pajero 2
The bottomline is that a diesel gives way more mileage & power than a petrol. My point is proved - me happy !!!!!


Cheers

Last edited by Ricky_63 : 27th May 2011 at 21:58.
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