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Old 29th May 2011, 22:55   #91
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Default Re: *Attached* : Fuel cost calculator, including a comparison between Petrol & Diesel

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Originally Posted by souravc View Post
I am a recent convert to diesel after 10 years of driving a petrol car , I believe that that diesel cars have better fuel efficiency - at least thats what I get from the FE quoted .
Given below is a link to a relevant presentation by SIAM http://www.siamonline.in/SIAM-Diesel-1st-Feb-2011.pdf
Whoaaaaa, that's truly awsome man! If this presentation is anything to go by, there ain't gonna be no letting off of the diesel subsidies any time soon (not fully at least), please correct me if I'm wrong. We'd love it if you also posted an analysis of the presentation and what it means for the car buyer/ user.

Last edited by Delta Wing : 29th May 2011 at 22:57. Reason: Removing an obvious.
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Old 30th May 2011, 00:23   #92
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Default Re: *Attached* : Fuel cost calculator, including a comparison between Petrol & Diesel

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Originally Posted by Delta Wing View Post
Whoaaaaa, that's truly awsome man! If this presentation is anything to go by, there ain't gonna be no letting off of the diesel subsidies any time soon (not fully at least), please correct me if I'm wrong. We'd love it if you also posted an analysis of the presentation and what it means for the car buyer/ user.
DW , I think the presentation is self explanatory and lays down crisply the performance aspect of the diesel engines namely cleaner burning, better fuel efficiency, better low end torque for better driveability, etc. Since its from an industry body it obviously cannot highlight the running cost savings due to the subsidy issue. Now diesel subsidy is a political issue - there is no chance in the medium term that diesel is going to be de-regulated . I think every per cent hike in diesel prices contribute to a 0.2% hike in food inflation so it would be a political catastrophe and no one would want that . Thus whatever be the demerits of regulating diesel prices, there would be status quo and I can only see the difference between petrol and diesel prices widening in the future . There may likely to be administered an additional levy on diesel vehicles at the time of purchase though.

For me , when I moved from my Swift ZXi to Vento TDi , the equation was very simple - with around 1000-1200 km of city driving every month I effectively halved my fuel bill as compared to earlier petrol days . Even with same fuel efficiency between petrol and diesel (which I have not seen in any car , diesel is always more fuel efficient than petrol ones) one sits pretty with around 33-40% saving which is huge . Regarding the "fun to drive" quotient , I find the torque addictive and more fun to drive as compared to any petrol car that I have driven in this segment thus I don't see myself having compromised in any way on that aspect too .
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Old 30th May 2011, 10:39   #93
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Default Re: *Attached* : Fuel cost calculator, including a comparison between Petrol & Diesel

While the XL calculator does a fantastic job of laying bare the numbers, I don't think comparison between the petrol and diesel versions of the same car will apply in a customer's buying decision.

For example, I currently own a Santro, which gives me 10 kmpl in Mumbai - partly due to traffic and partly due to the fact that one way commute is only 5 km. When I eventually buy a new car (probably 3 years down the road), I will most probably buy a diesel sedan. Depending on the budget, I will get either Dzire ZDI or a Vento Diesel Highline.. If the Etios Liva Diesel has a spacious boot, I might consider it.

I currently run only about 500km/month, and if I can't justify a diesel at the time of purchase, I will opt for a hatchback instead of a sedan. Right now, I think the Ritz Zxi will be the most frugal option.

My thinking rationale is that if I am buying a diesel, I can afford to go for a higher segment car. But if it is petrol, it will be just for office commutes, and I'll make do with the most fuel efficient hatchback on the market.
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Old 30th May 2011, 12:48   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbo Head

First thing lets not confuse about the segments, there is no point in comparing Nano (624cc) with Vista (1.3L). Ideally it has to be Vista Petrol vs Vista Diesel and compare the ownership cost, efficiency, cost/km etc on that basis.

Secondly increment of fuel prices cannot be so equal in case of Petrol vs Diesel.

Considering these factors I guess that will bring some substantial change in your calculations and maybe POV as well.
Thanks Turbo head what you said is absolutely correct. But if you through my post at the very bottom I have mentioned, "I have not included, luxury, comfort, power safety etc" it was more of owning a car to replace public transport. Sorry I may not have been specific to what I've said now on my post.

So cheers!
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Old 30th May 2011, 14:08   #95
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Default Re: *Attached* : Fuel cost calculator, including a comparison between Petrol & Diesel

After going through this for the past few days, diesel vehicles seem to be in more demand and also makes much more sense.

Just noticed in parking lot today. There were around 12 cars and 11 of them were diesel. There was only 1 petrol vehicle and guess what, it was mine .

Somehow, for me, the usage of petrol seems justified as my monthly travel is around 500kms and I get 20kmpl in city though I would change to a diesel car soon.
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Old 30th May 2011, 14:53   #96
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Default Re: *Attached* : Fuel cost calculator, including a comparison between Petrol & Diesel

@delta wing

great job done buddy

i had designed a similar excel sheet a few years back regarding the cost of ownership & cost of running.
had all the plans to improvise it as and when i got the time, but guess there's no need to do that anymore. your excel sheet does it all.

keep up the good work - cheers!!
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Old 30th May 2011, 17:30   #97
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Default Re: *Attached* : Fuel cost calculator, including a comparison between Petrol & Diesel

On the contrary, I found it scientific enough. Perhaps you meant 'practical'? What can make a difference (or not) is, how a person perceives this. It's very much possible to drive home the advantage.

To give you an example, I used to drive a Corsa (cost over 4 rs/km) but recently exchanged for a Linea MJD (cost just over 2 rs/km). Has this brought down my fuel bill? No, it hasn't. Being very well aware of the lower running costs, I am tempted using my car more and as a result, my fuel bills are about same. However, the most important factor is that I get to use my car lot more but still spending about same or even lesser money.

Of course, I am not considering the higher cost of diesel cars or the effect on environment here. If I did, I wouldn't be owning a car in first place. So, let's take that out of the equation.

The bottom line is my running cost comes down dramatically. Someone talked about the temptation of visiting Matheran more number of times with a diesel vehicle. That's true in my case too. However, I think it's simply not correct to rule out the value (read fun) you get out of using the car more often. Whether giving in to the temptation or not is purely up to the individual and can't be part of a calculation like this.

Last edited by GTO : 1st June 2011 at 12:29. Reason: Quoted post has been deleted
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Old 31st May 2011, 10:25   #98
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Default Re: *Attached* : Fuel cost calculator, including a comparison between Petrol & Diesel

Quote:
Originally Posted by prakash_ajp View Post

Of course, I am not considering the higher cost of diesel cars or the effect on environment here. If I did, I wouldn't be owning a car in first place. So, let's take that out of the equation.
+1
Atleast I did. Hence pushing the upgrade for last 2 years..
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Old 31st May 2011, 14:16   #99
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Default Re: *Attached* : Fuel cost calculator, including a comparison between Petrol & Diesel

Looks like petrol prices will again be hiked by Rs 1.35 tomorrow.

IOC may hike petrol prices next month - India News - IBNLive

On a lighter note, I may have found a solution to this fuel hike madness:
Name:  daily_picdump_693_640_23.jpg
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Old 31st May 2011, 14:20   #100
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Default Re: *Attached* : Fuel cost calculator, including a comparison between Petrol & Diesel

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pri2 View Post
Looks like petrol prices will again be hiked by Rs 1.35 tomorrow.

IOC may hike petrol prices next month - India News - IBNLive

On a lighter note, I may have found a solution to this fuel hike madness:
Attachment 553116
Ha ha Pri2 this one is indeed a good one.

But on the contrary the govt is taxing us more than 40% on petrol
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Old 31st May 2011, 18:21   #101
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Default Re: *Attached* : Fuel cost calculator, including a comparison between Petrol & Diesel

Oh well. This is as good (or as bad) as the Fiat versus the other cars debates we used to have. LOL.

I am not a Petrol Head or a Diesel Fan. I just bought a petrol because it was cheaper than a diesel in the entry sedan segment. I will not comment on the spreadsheet based analysis, though I feel that as manufacturers see an increase in demand they will start raising the price of diesels and reducing the price of petrols. In which case we will need a new analysis and will get a new topic to entertain us.

For now however, yes, a Diesel makes sense.
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Old 1st June 2011, 06:55   #102
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Default Re: *Attached* : Fuel cost calculator, including a comparison between Petrol & Diesel

Excellent work, indeed. As you rightly said, you neither reinvented the wheel, nor have you worked this out for appreciation. It is just a samaritan effort for other to have something on their hands to workout their running costs, and hence analyze if it is indeed worth it to invest more in a diesel variant of the car - keeping constant the buyers urge to go for either petrol or diesel.

As far as fun factor and emotional purchase is concerned, phamilyman fails to realize he is among a very rare, and close to extinct, Indian species that goes only with instinctive purchase that appeals to their heart. Why do we see extensive comparos between petrol and diesel, all the time? In a city like Surat/Ahmedabad, I would say they sell 90 Diesel Vernas to 10 petrols, or even 95! Same could be said for Laura, Indica, the famed Germans, et al.

My last four purchases have been:

Hyundai Elantra D
Swift Dzire D
Toyota Innova D
Fluidic Verna 1.6 D

Both, the Elantra and Verna have a better, more fun Diesel motor compared to its petrol counterpart. Mercedes and BMW have come up with extremely fun-to-drive oil burners too. In which gospel is it mentioned that diesels cannot be fun to drive?

In the larger scheme of things, people have become aware of their expenditure, even the more adventurous kind! They balance their 'fun and emotions' well. I speak for a good majority of the Indian middle/higher-middle class population. phamilyman is free to follow his rule of thumb, but over 40 'thanks' for Deltawing speak something else.
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Old 1st June 2011, 08:14   #103
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Default Re: *Attached* : Fuel cost calculator, including a comparison between Petrol & Diesel

Thanks to DW and SouravC for sharing the Fuel Cost Calculator and the Diesel advantage Presentation.

I am not a diesel fan at all. Hate the clatter and uneven power delivery.

Diesel v/s Petrol debate is a common point of argument at breakfast at home, my brother being a hard core diesel fanatic.

Since my driving is restricted to about 6000kms annually, the average consumption of around 35 litres of petrol a month. Even the price hike of 6 rupees has hit me by just about 200Rs a month.

Which I think is bearable. I wont be thinking diesel in a long time.

But If my brother sees this thread he would just trounce me at breakfast! BTW he drives a Zen Diesel which averages around 1.8Rs per kilometer works out to be Cheaper than taking a Bus.
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Old 1st June 2011, 09:40   #104
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Default Re: *Attached* : Fuel cost calculator, including a comparison between Petrol & Diesel

Excellent!!! simply excellent. The thought process and excel skill are just too good. i have shared this with many people who dont have the privilege to be a part of this forum.

it also in many ways justifies my decision to buy the diesel Vento because when i had bought it in Dec '10 the price differential was not as much as it is now. many people had criticized me but for a running of ~16000/yr i feel i have made the right choice.

All this even if i ignore the fuel efficiency, driving dynamics of modern diesels (somehow the turbo kick is addictive and driving my NHC after driving the diesel Vento is not so much fun)
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Old 1st June 2011, 16:30   #105
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Default Re: *Attached* : Fuel cost calculator, including a comparison between Petrol & Diesel

Thanks for the comments so far guys. With over 100 posts in the thread, it's time to summarise:

The 'agree' responses to the cost calculator just bring out the change of sentiment of the car owner/ buyer towards the fuel price differences. There were some genuine comments/ suggestions to which I responded to the best of my understanding. The 'disagree' responses included some neutral comments, some one line boasts and even witty and sarcastic imaginary conversations filled with oblique hints as to the plight of the petrolhead having to suffer economical-guy-thinking-only-money-sans-fun. The latter of these led to some undesirable exchanges which the moderators have thankfully removed. That got me thinking: that was not what this thread was about. So I thought I might put it through to everyone:

The fuel cost calculator is not meant as a pertol vs diesel car debate. That debate is endless and I'm not interested in it for this thread. When I made that calculator and populated the data, I started out to prove that despite the fuel prices, it should still be allright to run (run, not maintain/own/have-fun-in) a petrol car with conservative mileage figures of around 8 K/yr for a good 6-7 years before the buying deficit was compensated by running benefits. The reason was that I have been waiting and waiting for the new Fiesta for over a year since I really like the old Fiesta and was keen on the petrol variant (if it seemed better than the Linea T Jet).

The calculator toppled my thinking. A break even of 2-3 years at ~10 K km/yr is simply too massive a financial consideration to ignore. I drive a petrol car right now and every time I tank up, the spreadsheet stares me in the face. If driving my petrol car was fun, a lot of it was taken away by this. There would be many unaffected by this, those with very low mileage and those who find a petrol car's fun more desirable. For those who consider a balance of economy, convenience and fun a priority, this might be a good tool and so I shared it. I do not say that diesel cars are better/ worse than petrol cars, preformance wise or environment wise or that they are easier, cheaper/ costlier to maintain, more/ less fun to drive as a general rule (I did say that petrol ones are fun at high revs and diesel ones even at regular-use-revs). All these things depend on a lot of other factors too and not just whether a vehicle runs on petrol or diesel and such discussions would actually be off topic for this thread but there is always bound to be some overlap so it's ok to have had all this discussion too.

The bottomline is that after a 100 posts in the thread, most commenting positively and some dismissing the caculations (whether logically or sarcastically) and some neutral opinions, there has been no major point which disproves that diesel cars are overwhelmingly cheaper to run than petrol ones than they were even till two years ago. The SIAM presentation supports this too.

So I thank the members who appreciated the calculator, am glad to have been of any little help. I also thank the members who bashed the calculations in various ways for failing to disprove the numbers and thus indirectly supporting the calculator's conclusion.

Cheers.

Last edited by Delta Wing : 1st June 2011 at 16:44. Reason: Correcting sentences
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