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Old 1st June 2011, 19:52   #106
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Default Re: *Attached* : Fuel cost calculator, including a comparison between Petrol & Diesel

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Originally Posted by Delta Wing View Post
... there has been no major point which disproves that diesel cars are overwhelmingly cheaper to run than petrol ones than they were even till two years ago. ....
I did not get what you are trying to say here. But belatedly I do have to add that you did a lot of work. Thanks for that. Though I must add that you should not be quick to take offense.

I was going through the SIAM presentation and I found myself shaking my head on the slides where they were comparing the contribution to NOx and PPM. The feedback is that Diesel cars contribute less to pollution. But how many cars are there as a proportion? I do agree with a lot of points in the presentation, but are they trying to convey? Knowing that this is coming from the manufacturers, there will always be an ulterior motive.

Also, how efficient / cost effective is it to produce petrol as compared to diesel? Any Oil & Gas engineers here?
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Old 13th June 2011, 02:18   #107
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Default Re: *Attached* : Fuel cost calculator, including a comparison between Petrol & Diesel

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Originally Posted by typeOnegative View Post
Also, how efficient / cost effective is it to produce petrol as compared to diesel? Any Oil & Gas engineers here?
No oil & gas engineers required to answer this one if I can recall a few of my 9th/10th std science class lectures correctly .

The basic extraction of both petrol and diesel from crude oil is done within the same distillation tower at different temperatures by Fractionation/Distillation in a refinery. (No extra cost for diesel so far).

First round completed, and this is where the magic of oil refining companies begins.

How to get more from the left over residue heavier density oil? More importantly which form of the fuel/bi-product, and the mandate is very clear "focus on maximizing the output of petrol". The residual fuel is made to undergo multiple stages of processing (vacuum distillation, Reforming, multi-stage Cracking, Alkylation etc) to get more. Note the process of Reforming uses Platinum to bring about chemical reactions which upgrade some portion of the residual fuel into high octane petrol. (so much more + Platinum to get petrol- does it add cost to petrol production??)

Sulphur removal is the next step which needs a fraction more one time investment for diesel.

Net resultant of the whole jargon - 42Gallon of crude produces 44Gallons or more of petroleum products. Most refineries target for 50% or more of petrol output per gallon of crude, so around 20-22 Gallons of petrol, 9-10 Gallons of diesel, 3-4 Gallons of Jet fuel and 2 gallons of LPG is extracted apart from other petroleum products.

Final touches, petrol needs a few more steps than diesel for addition of additives etc before its ready to be shipped.

In the end it's a matter of what is less costs more, so diesel is priced higher in absence of subsidies.

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Originally Posted by typeOnegative View Post
Knowing that this is coming from the manufacturers, there will always be an ulterior motive.
This is a well known fact that diesel has a higher octane value and lower pollutant volume than equivalent quantities of petrol and has no hidden agenda.
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Old 13th June 2011, 08:42   #108
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Default Re: *Attached* : Fuel cost calculator, including a comparison between Petrol & Diesel

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Originally Posted by pawanarya View Post
No oil & gas engineers required to answer this one if I can recall a few of my 9th/10th std science class lectures correctly ......This is a well known fact that diesel has a higher octane value and lower pollutant volume than equivalent quantities of petrol and has no hidden agenda.
Thank you. What you have stated is what I know from school and engineering college. But the sole truth can come from someone who really runs a refinery.

Whilst I agree that there is no denying the fact that Diesel is less polluting than petrol, one can certainly hear (at least I do) Automobile Manufacturers asking the government not increase duties on Diesel Cars or raising the price of Diesel for private consumption.
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Old 17th June 2011, 16:51   #109
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Default Re: *Attached* : Fuel cost calculator, including a comparison between Petrol & Diesel

HI,

I am not able to download the attachment to work on with my own calculations, can someone assist me to download the excel sheet?
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Old 21st November 2011, 18:03   #110
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Default Re: *Attached* : Fuel cost calculator, including a comparison between Petrol & Diesel

Hello everyone,

Just reading the thread and looking at the in depth research just made the hair on my hands stand.
I thought i would take the privilege of share my views on the cost calculator that i excel'ed and receive your inputs on weather my thought process was correct.

Its a very simple tool:
one can compare any two cars by entering 4 parameters.
1. Type of vehicle
2. Fuel cost.
3. cost of vehicle on road.
4. Mileage

The

It just uses simple math to figure out the cost of breaking even of a lower cost petrol vehicle Vs a higher cost diesel vehicle across the no. of kmts driven, by drawing a graph that shows you exactly at what kmt of running the higher cost of acquisition break even with the cheaper fuel cost of a diesel.

The point where the two lines intersect will be where the kms at which the cost would break even.

Drawbacks:
1. Does not take into account the variance in fuel hike over a period.
2. Does not take into account the maintenance cost of petrol Vs Diesel or New Vs used cars. (Maintenance cost assumed to be same on diesel and petrol)

I would greatly appreciate your inputs on how more accurate one could make this.( that is if i am even on the right track of thought. LOL)

Thanks for looking.
Attached Files
File Type: xlsx Car cost analysis.xlsx (12.5 KB, 605 views)
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Old 1st December 2011, 07:35   #111
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Default Re: *Attached* : Fuel cost calculator, including a comparison between Petrol & Diesel

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Originally Posted by prasana_19 View Post
HI,

I am not able to download the attachment to work on with my own calculations, can someone assist me to download the excel sheet?
I have created an excel sheet and uploaded to my blog

Last edited by Tommie : 1st December 2011 at 07:37.
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Old 1st December 2011, 09:52   #112
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Default Re: *Attached* : Fuel cost calculator, including a comparison between Petrol & Diesel

I personally think this is a useless comparison. When we buy diesel car we do shell out a bit more but we get that money when we sell in the used car market. Infact in the current market we get more, for eg. if we pay 75K more for a new diesel car, a few years later in the used market diesel sells easily for a premium of more than 75K over a petrol car.

In today's market in fact it's difficult to sell a petrol car and far easier to sell a diesel car, which is another advantage.

No offense meant to anyone, i myself have always had petrol cars and have never owned any diesel car. I used to think about the same calculation and today i realize it was a mistake
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Old 18th January 2012, 11:59   #113
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Default Re: *Attached* : Fuel cost calculator, including a comparison between Petrol & Diesel

IMHO the original comparison posted does not give a realistic view at all.
Here's a simple calculator which takes into account the cost of the car, mileage, loan amount and tenure to show a comparison on whether to go for a petrol or a diesel.
This calculator should not be used:
1. To compare cars in different segments
2. To make a comparison if you are not planning to take a loan (The logic is simple, if you make the entire payment - your running cost is the only differentiator and you don't need a tool to show the difference)

The final result shows in how many years, your diesel purchase would become profitable for you.

Hope this one helps!!Petrol or Diesel.xlsx
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Old 26th February 2012, 14:57   #114
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Default A complete financial consideration

I conducted an analysis on whether you would actually save buying a diesel variant instead of a petrol variant. Some of the things that were considered were :

I compared a Swift VDi v/s a Swift VXi. At Trivandrum the ex-showroom price accounts for a difference of around 110,577 rupees.

Scenario 1
You are funding the extra amount from your savings.

Calculating the benefits also involves figuring how you could invest the savings if you went for the petrol instead.

1. Investing in a 5 year FD @9.25 interest would give you 64k in interest
2. You will be saddled with a 3k increased monthly petrol fuel bill per month. Assuming a 1500km monthly usage, 3rupees/km cost for diesel and 5rupees/km cost for petrol.
3. It would take you 3 years to break even which means you would save 72,000 in the last 2 years v/s 64k brought in by the FD.
4. If you can make more than 72k by investing wisely, the savings factor of the diesel is no longer valid.

Scenario 2
You are funding the extra amount by borrowing an extra 110,577 rupees. This means an increased EMI of 2460 rupees assuming an interest rate of 12.25% for 5 years by SBI.

Applying the savings in EMI to balance the fuel cost, the savings would be a mere 540 rupees in fuel cost. You would have to use the car for close to 18 years to break even!!

Diesel encourages you to drive more
True, so applying a 10% increase in monthly driving, to raise it to 2000km per month you would still take close to 6 years to break even.

The monthly difference in fuel costs have to be at least double the extra EMI to make spending extra on the diesel justify the saving.

However if you go for a diesel a class lower than the petrol that you are aiming for, then you will certianly save.

Last edited by shibujp : 26th February 2012 at 15:25. Reason: formatting went wild
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Old 26th February 2012, 15:41   #115
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Default Re: A complete financial consideration

Quote:
Originally Posted by shibujp View Post
I conducted an analysis on whether you would actually save buying a diesel variant instead of a petrol variant. Some of the things that were considered were :

2. You will be saddled with a 3k increased monthly petrol fuel bill per month. Assuming a 1500km monthly usage, 3rupees/km cost for diesel and 5rupees/km cost for petrol.
This topic has been discussed so often. I have always maintained that such equations cannot be generalised. It varies with city to city, person to person, priority to priority.

How did you calculate that running cost of 3/km for diesel and 5/km for petrol?
For instance if I take the Altis ( which I bought last year) into the equation then according to the current fuel prices in Delhi and the mileage that I am getting then for a 1500 km run the cost comes out to 5.9/km for petrol and 2.3/km for diesel.

Last but not the least I have always felt that for a majority of people its not about money saved in the end but more to do with the everyday stress you go through while running a petrol car these days. Specially if you require to tank up atleast once in a week. You might not be spending much extra at the end of 5 years on the petrol car but paying almost twice extra for the fuel every month after month is kind of agonising to say the least. And that stress level is just going to increase in another fortnight when the UP elections get over and fuel prices are increased drastically. I am expecting a 4-5 Rs/ L for petrol and only 1-2/km for diesel if at all they touch diesel.

Last edited by drmohitg : 26th February 2012 at 15:43.
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Old 26th February 2012, 15:59   #116
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Default Re: A complete financial consideration

Quote:
Originally Posted by shibujp View Post
I compared a Swift VDi v/s a Swift VXi. At Trivandrum the ex-showroom price accounts for a difference of around 110,577 rupees.
What if by chance a person purchases a same segment car but of different brand with costing coming same as petrol, no extra for diesel.
Way in back in Dec'10 when we purchased VW Vento TDi HL it costed Rs. 9,13,000 Ex-Showroom and Honda City VMT too used to cost the same Rs. 9,13,000. So savings on fuel cost plus 250NM of torque fun.

Quote:
Originally Posted by drmohitg View Post
This topic has been discussed so often. I have always maintained that such equations cannot be generalised. It varies with city to city, person to person, priority to priority.
With the ever changing scenario here in India, it seems its now going to vary from time to time now. Brent Crude at $124 Barrel being projected to reach $150 soon and with impending rise in fuel price which has been delayed due to elections. Come 6 March'12 with all election done, buckle up for a major hike.
In Mumbai BEST transport is projecting to increase fares due to loses to the tune of crore.
Let the fun begin.
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Old 27th February 2012, 00:22   #117
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Default Re: A complete financial consideration

Quote:
Originally Posted by drmohitg View Post
This topic has been discussed so often. I have always maintained that such equations cannot be generalised. It varies with city to city, person to person, priority to priority.

How did you calculate that running cost of 3/km for diesel and 5/km for petrol?
For instance if I take the Altis ( which I bought last year) into the equation then according to the current fuel prices in Delhi and the mileage that I am getting then for a 1500 km run the cost comes out to 5.9/km for petrol and 2.3/km for diesel.
I agree. The 3/km and 5/km values were approximations for the Swift diesel and petrol.

I just wanted to bring out the general idea that saving money by buying a diesel car is not as simple as just buying the diesel variant instead of the petrol variant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by drmohitg View Post
Last but not the least I have always felt that for a majority of people its not about money saved in the end but more to do with the everyday stress you go through while running a petrol car these days.
Exactly! And one of the most common quotes is "diesel will save money" and some excel is whipped out and break even calculations are displayed. However aspects like discussing the extra EMI you pay, the returns you get from investing the money better etc are left out. So stress is low at the pump but you are still losing money.

Quote:
Originally Posted by el lobo 6061 View Post
What if by chance a person purchases a same segment car but of different brand with costing coming same as petrol, no extra for diesel.
Way in back in Dec'10 when we purchased VW Vento TDi HL it costed Rs. 9,13,000 Ex-Showroom and Honda City VMT too used to cost the same Rs. 9,13,000. So savings on fuel cost plus 250NM of torque fun.
Spot on! You should buy a Vento diesel instead of the Vento petrol for torque fun. That is the idea. The car was purchased on it's merit. And if the prices of the diesel and the petrol are the same yes you save money. That is buying a diesel with your thinking cap on.

However I see a lot of buying a diesel variant of many cars at a lakh or so premium over the petrol variant just because of the "diesel will save" slogan. Yes it will save if bought the way you bought the Vento diesel - as long as you buy a diesel for the same price as the petrol.

Also i am attaching the excel I used for the calculations. The greyed out fields are calculated field. All the rest are inputs.

Drive on,
Shibu.
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File Type: xls dieselPetrol.xls (76.0 KB, 267 views)
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Old 27th February 2012, 04:14   #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shibujp View Post
Scenario 2
You are funding the extra amount by borrowing an extra 110,577 rupees. This means an increased EMI of 2460 rupees assuming an interest rate of 12.25% for 5 years by SBI.

Applying the savings in EMI to balance the fuel cost, the savings would be a mere 540 rupees in fuel cost. You would have to use the car for close to 18 years to break even!!
Flaw in scenario 2.

I believe that EMI takes care of the principal(1,11,577) and the interest. So that 540Rs is an additional savings every month right from the first month and you'll break even well before the 5 years are up.

Quote:
However I see a lot of buying a diesel variant of many cars at a lakh or so premium over the petrol variant just because of the "diesel will save" slogan.
I think you are making a highly wrong assumption there. People are not that dumb, you know. And reasons vary from person to person.

Last edited by ninjatalli : 27th February 2012 at 04:31.
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Old 27th February 2012, 08:12   #119
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Default Re: *Attached* : Fuel cost calculator, including a comparison between Petrol & Diesel

If a person wishes to sell his/her car within 3-5 years then the diesel will go for the extra 1 lakh over the petrol variant. Ofcourse new age diesel cars have good resale value.
Eg : Swift diesel
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Old 27th February 2012, 09:20   #120
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Default Re: *Attached* : Fuel cost calculator, including a comparison between Petrol & Diesel

I feel another major factor would be the usage and the driving conditions. I had two diesels both were underutilized as my driving has been very low. So finally i have sold my indica and going for a petrol vehicle as i will keep a mix of both. Petrol car will be used more on weekends for my drives. The diesel would be used daily for run around and other chores. So i feel that one must look at the requirement and usage patter before taking that call. In my case second vehicle is petrol because my running would hardly be 500 kms a month roughly 6000 in an year. Considering this petrol would be better suited for me.
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