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Old 27th February 2012, 10:39   #121
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Default Re: A complete financial consideration

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Originally Posted by el lobo 6061 View Post
What if by chance a person purchases a same segment car but of different brand with costing coming same as petrol, no extra for diesel.
Actually there can be counter argument to this. There will always be Petrol variant at leasser cost and we are back to sq one.

the most consistent thing to do is to evaluate P and D model of the same variant. If, for example we look at Swift or the Dzire and assume the difference in OTR price for the two is 1L and further assume that D will recoup that in resale (ie, the diff in resale of P and D is same 1L) then the economics of the ownership can be easily worked out, irrespective of ownership duration!

If one were buying the car with own money then by opting P model one is saving 1L. This means an interest income of about 800 per month (in a risk free investment instrument). Add to this certain other intangibles like insurance premium benefit (maybe about 200 per month) and maintenance benefit (I'll again assume it as 200 pm). That means a saving of 1200pm over Diesel. Now coming to running costs, assuming D mileage as 16 and P as 12 (as stated most often on ownership threads here) and we get running costs as about Rs 3 per KM for Diesel and about 6 for Petrol at todays costs. This mean price differential of about 3 rupees per KM. So if ones monthly usage is more than 400 KM, owing Diesel is more economical, whatever be the duration of ownership!!! However, if govt has its way and we need to shell out 1L more, then Diesels will become economical compared to Petrol only after 666 KM. Alternatively if instead of cess, Diesel gets priced same as Petrol then, for a 1L price difference, Diesels will be economical only on usage of about 1200KM a month or more!

If one were buying car with a loan then, assuming loan for 5 years and EMI of 2000 per lac, Diesel becomes economical, in todays scenario, only on monthly usage of 800 KM. And if the additional cess comes and price difference becomes 2L, then Diesel will become economical only on monthly usage of 1500 KM. Alternatively if instead of cess, Diesel gets priced same as Petrol then, for a 1L price difference, Diesels will be economical only on usage of about 2500KM a month!

For simplicity I have rounded off figures a bit but still we get the picture I guess.
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Old 27th February 2012, 11:38   #122
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Default Re: A complete financial consideration

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Originally Posted by joslicx View Post
That means a saving of 1200pm over Diesel. Now coming to running costs, assuming D mileage as 16 and P as 12 (as stated most often on ownership threads here) and we get running costs as about Rs 3 per KM for Diesel and about 6 for Petrol at todays costs. This mean price differential of about 3 rupees per KM. So if ones monthly usage is more than 400 KM, owing Diesel is more economical, whatever be the duration of ownership!!!
I would add another 833/- on the top of 1200/-. This is the 50% of 1lac depreciation over 5 yrs (i.e 60 months). So the total figure is - 2033/- per month. That means, one has to drive, 677 km per month for the break even.

One more thing, Petrol cars can be CNG-fied easily. I am surprised that guys are not considering that fact in to their calculation. In reality, most of the petrol cars in North India and North-West India CNG-fied in their 3rd-5th B'day.
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Old 27th February 2012, 12:50   #123
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Default Re: A complete financial consideration

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Originally Posted by mohandas View Post

One more thing, Petrol cars can be CNG-fied easily. I am surprised that guys are not considering that fact in to their calculation. In reality, most of the petrol cars in North India and North-West India CNG-fied in their 3rd-5th B'day.
I am not sure where did you get that statistic from? I don't think there are many cars undergoing that. Although I would say that it sure looks like the most feasible thing to do. Infact a member had posted his new thread about converting a AT Petrol Car to CNG, which IMO is an excellent idea.
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Old 27th February 2012, 13:27   #124
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Default Re: *Attached* : Fuel cost calculator, including a comparison between Petrol & Diesel

As i am from Bangalore we have LPG here and there is no CNG availability. Another interesting factor to look out for is, how does the costing come if one goes for LPG kit in the petrol car. I have seen many people using LPG kits currently and LPG is cheaper by at least Rs 25 than petrol here. Also these days they have sequential kits on which the performance is good and so is the fuel efficiency. So another route which can be taken by petrol car owners who drive a lot are to switch to LPG and reap the benefits. Any current LPG car owners would be able to give better information on the same.
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Old 27th February 2012, 14:36   #125
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Default Re: *Attached* : Fuel cost calculator, including a comparison between Petrol & Diesel

Just saw on the news. Proposal to finally increase the price once again since the elections are over. Petrol by Rs 4/L and diesel by Rs. 2/L. The gap between the 2 just keeps on increasing.
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Old 27th February 2012, 14:36   #126
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Default Re: *Attached* : Fuel cost calculator, including a comparison between Petrol & Diesel

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Originally Posted by ninjatalli View Post
Flaw in scenario 2.

I believe that EMI takes care of the principal(1,11,577) and the interest. So that 540Rs is an additional savings every month right from the first month and you'll break even well before the 5 years are up.
Yes, the light begins to shine through. The EMI is the penalty you pay toward break even. And the savings would be 540 * 12 * 5 ~30,000. If you are taking a loan the EMI is the monthly breakeven amount.

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I think you are making a highly wrong assumption there. People are not that dumb, you know. And reasons vary from person to person.
I never called them dumb. I just couldn't see the rationale to the statement. Now I believe!!

Drive on,
Shibu.
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Old 27th February 2012, 20:35   #127
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Default Re: *Attached* : Fuel cost calculator, including a comparison between Petrol & Diesel

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Originally Posted by shibujp View Post
Spot on! You should buy a Vento diesel instead of the Vento petrol for torque fun. That is the idea. The car was purchased on it's merit. And if the prices of the diesel and the petrol are the same yes you save money. That is buying a diesel with your thinking cap on.
Shibu, you are spot on. Vento TDi was purchased on its merit. I drive a Ford Fiesta Classic 1.4 TDCi which surely has good handling but feels very coarse and whereas driving VW Vento 1.6 TDi is a total nirvana. The torque is addictive and still in C segment its the best drivers car.

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Originally Posted by joslicx View Post
Actually there can be counter argument to this. There will always be Petrol variant at leasser cost and we are back to sq one.
You have done some mind crunching analysis for the break even period but in the end the fun one gets in driving the 250NM car is much better than the break even period.

Quote:
Originally Posted by drmohitg View Post
Just saw on the news. Proposal to finally increase the price once again since the elections are over. Petrol by Rs 4/L and diesel by Rs. 2/L. The gap between the 2 just keeps on increasing.
Finally. But till how long will government hold on, if Iran goes on war with US and UK it will be disastrous, WW III in the making considering the nuclear power.
Since 2010 the gap between petrol and diesel has been increasing tremendously. In the below given website one can have a look at the comparison of fuel prices since 2002. With the increase in diesel price there would surely be increase in prices of eatables/commodities since they are transported by trucks and public transport i.e. BEST would be increasing their fare further.

Historical Fuel Price chart India.

Sharp hike in fuel prices likely after Assembly polls.

Last edited by el lobo 6061 : 27th February 2012 at 20:37.
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Old 27th February 2012, 21:12   #128
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Default Re: *Attached* : Fuel cost calculator, including a comparison between Petrol & Diesel

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Originally Posted by el lobo 6061 View Post

You have done some mind crunching analysis for the break even period but in the end the fun one gets in driving the 250NM car is much better than the break even period.
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Actually I believe there is hardly any break even period, only break even usage! Diesel will be economically advantageous overall even after one month if the KMs clicked are sufficient! And the number can be as low as 400 (or as mohandas corrected me, 600 KM) which means its valid pretty much all of us!

Now its another matter altogether the fun of driving Diesels. Me, I have been a Petrol guy so far and likely to be one for forseeable future

Last edited by joslicx : 27th February 2012 at 21:14.
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Old 28th February 2012, 08:51   #129
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Default Re: *Attached* : Fuel cost calculator, including a comparison between Petrol & Diesel

Similar article in the economic times after considering the proposed Diesel (Green) Tax

Why it makes sense to opt for a diesel car than a petrol version - The Economic Times
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Old 1st March 2012, 11:20   #130
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Default Re: *Attached* : Fuel cost calculator, including a comparison between Petrol & Diesel

Found this on Zigwheels:
Petrol vs Diesel: And the Economies of Scale Page - 2| Zigwheels.com
This one considers the savings and interest earned as well and gives a better explanation than the economic times article IMO

Last edited by dheepak10 : 1st March 2012 at 11:21. Reason: Updating URL to point from the 1st page of the article
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Old 1st March 2012, 12:10   #131
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Default Re: *Attached* : Fuel cost calculator, including a comparison between Petrol & Diesel

Here is one more that I had created 2 years back.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ml#post1784011 (The financial Truth: Petrol vs Diesel)
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Old 1st March 2012, 13:33   #132
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Default Re: *Attached* : Fuel cost calculator, including a comparison between Petrol & Diesel

^^ Quite well explained. Your post concisely explains the actual costs involved.

When arguments on performance comes in, there are so many arguments from both sides and hence would never be conclusive.
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