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Old 25th May 2011, 13:23   #16
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Default Re: Is This True ? VW is having worst reputation among all ?

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Originally Posted by vinya_jag View Post
They never claimed that their cars were Made for India cars, did they? They brought their best selling models into India for us to have a taste of what their cars are.

You want to be different, enjoy the VW quality and engineering, you must be ready for the compromise.
I have to disagree on that.

They never claimed their cars were made for India? Does anyone do that? If they are not made for India or Indian road conditions they cannot be aimed at the mass market. I have a VW Polo TDi, and its a hatchback which I believe is the primary market for for the average Indian consumer. No cars would sell as much as the hatchbacks if only smaller and affordable. The Polo in fact is the only car that I have used so carefully and still I'm facing endless troubles with it. The car has to be designed in a way that it does not need much attention. It has to be designed knowing that people will not pay attention to things like should I check the radiator coolant levels every now and then hoping the EGR Cooler will not give in again. That too before the very first service.

Not once have I neglected my car, abused it or even failed to check the oil levels in my car. I have used it exactly how the company thought I would and still the EGR Cooler failed twice. That is not quality, that is negligence. Failure to check quality is something I or anyone did not expect from a company like this. Sure there are people with Figo's and Swift who have their own set of problems. But every brand has a tagline which is not made up, it is given to it by the experience the company gets throughout the years of its existence. Ford's are known to be built tough am I right? BMW's are for sheer driving pleasure, and Ferrari is for the racing pedigree it carries. Any child knows Ferrari's are built for one purpose and one purpose alone, to be fast. These taglines are a result of mass sales, customer response and years of research. Ducati claims it has designed most of their modern day bikes by reading and analyzing customer wants. It has succeeded immensely without a doubt. And so VW's tagline is quality and engineering. That is the reason we all bought Volkswagen, because we knew what we are signing up for. And to be honest I didn't sign up to be a test mule for the company.

Yes, people who bought a Polo are mostly the types who know the history of this car, who want something different. And in my town specially I see more Ventos than Polos. Thats because people will always have a big car mentality. It does not have to be attractive, fast, efficient or even cheap. It just has to be big. But even in that small number of Polos I have found defective ones including mine. I beg to differ on the kind of quality "Chakan" is putting in to making these cars. I am not the only case of faulty parts in brand new cars. I have seen people's parking brakes locked, EGR Cooler failing 4 times. Flywheel jamming. Starter motor frying minutes after driving out a workshop. If I could make a list of people who bought VW's cars just out of sheer love it would be longer than this post itself.

But that is not the point here. The point is we all bought these cars because we love VW, we love Polos. And the kind of treatment we get from these so called representatives is the complete opposite of what we hoped. I know some people who were waiting more eagerly for the delivery of their Polo more than their Audi A4.

When you expect so much out of a company known for its quality and engineering, its really hard to believe that they have given quality where you can see but left it out where it actually matters.

Last edited by anubhavarya : 25th May 2011 at 13:32. Reason: added more lines
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Old 25th May 2011, 13:40   #17
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Default Re: VW's suffer from poor reliability?

Friends,
I own a VW Jetta for the past 1 year and never got a chance to complain both about the car and the dealer (EVM, Trivandrum). I am so impressed that I would recommend their service and of course the great quality cars to anyone. Recently had my first service (@15,000 kms) and happy with that also. Actually it was cheaper than my friend's Dzire's service charge!!!

One of these days I will post a 1 year experience about my car.
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Old 25th May 2011, 13:55   #18
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Default Re: VW's suffer from poor reliability?

Unless a car breaks down or has major problems we will never get to know the true value or true color VW A.S.S.

In chennai we now have Abra and Sundaram Motors taking care of A.S.S.

Most of the feedback from Sundaram Motors looks far more encouraging compared to Abra.

Only time will tell.

Last edited by VW2010 : 25th May 2011 at 13:56.
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Old 25th May 2011, 14:42   #19
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Default Re: VW's suffer from poor reliability?

Reliability is a direct correalation to simplicity

VW's have become more complex

1: Engine - the diesels have turbocharging, high precision injectors,higher injector pressues etc. There are plenty of issues with Passat injectors

2: Electronic modules - Plenty of failures happening ESP, ABS and ECU failures are common

With electronics comes a lot of connections - my throttle body wire plays up. Luckily I know how to unplug and reset. A friend of mine called me since his ABS, ESP and tyre pressure light on his Superb came up - why- just did the wheel alignment and he went over a bump

3: Electronic - Mechanical interface - VW DSG plenty of issues with the mechatronics playing up

A lot is due to the last mile of integration - durability testing is an issue as also suppliers own testing. If VW used japanese electronic components, they might be halfway there!
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Old 25th May 2011, 14:52   #20
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Default Re: VW's suffer from poor reliability?

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Originally Posted by ajmat View Post
Reliability is a direct correalation to simplicity
Not sure if i agree with that, and i believe this has been discussed earlier as well.

Aircraft systems are very complex, do we expect them to fail often. Not sure. I wouldn't expect the ABS/ESP to fail right when i need them most, or for that matter Airbags to fail to open right when i needed them most (At the time of accident).

Alternatively i would be ok with if something not as critical stopped working (Would be irritated but would live with it).

So i guess its a mixed bag, critical components shouldn't follow the logic ("Reliability is a direct correalation to simplicity") others can in my opinion.
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Old 25th May 2011, 15:13   #21
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Default Re: Is This True ? VW is having worst reputation among all ?

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Originally Posted by vinya_jag View Post
They never claimed that their cars were Made for India cars, did they? They brought their best selling models into India for us to have a taste of what their cars are.
Sorry sir. I donot agree with this statement. Why did they make this Ad?



Isn't this Ad for the indian market?


European cars are never known to be reliable like their japanese counterparts. But one thing for sure is it takes a lot of effort to provide reliable after sales service. Another challenge is to continuously meet the demand for volumes. Maruti and Hyundai were in India when the annual car sales volumes were around 50K cars. They had time on hand to learn. Its not so today. The ramp-up in volumes required is so steep, there is no scope for experimentation. This is where the reliability issues start creeping up. You start relaxing a lot to improve the first pass yield and before realising, you are deep down in a quality problem.

Or can you dare to stop bookings, ala Toyota Fortuner when you are starting off from a greenfield facility?

Last edited by MCR : 25th May 2011 at 15:15. Reason: Typo
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Old 25th May 2011, 15:40   #22
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Default Re: VW's suffer from poor reliability?

I don't understand people when they say a car which is sold in the Indian market is not made for India. If its not made for this country then it doesn't deserve to be sold here. I can understand if its a one off import which has reliability issues as the car was designed to run in another country where fuel and roads are of far better quality.

I own a Toyota Corolla. Its far from being the cheap to own by its completely reliable. Whats the point in having heated seats, independent climate control etc. when your car won't start? The first and foremost quality any machine should have is reliability especially when its going to be serving the common man in large numbers. Features and gadgets are useless if its primary purpose is not achieved. Whats the point of an 8 speaker surround system when the car sits in your garage refusing to start.

I don't have much to say to VW in particular but the Germans in general can learn a thing or two from the Japs when it comes to reliability.
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Old 25th May 2011, 16:03   #23
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Default Re: VW's suffer from poor reliability?

Based on my interactions with VW in India, I only found that they seem to have a chip on their shoulder when they talk about the Indian market. This attitude is not going to help them; in fact it will only hasten the onset of complacency into their service centres.

To be honest, it seems they are a bit uncomfortable or confused about their positioning in the Indian market. Moreover, I am not sure what will happen once their level of localisation increases; it could actually be a double edged sword.

I am sure the guys who have gone in for VW cars expect these to be niggle free. If any niggles cannot be fixed, then whats the VW USP?

I guess we will all have to wait & watch!

Last edited by selfdrive : 25th May 2011 at 16:05.
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Old 25th May 2011, 16:19   #24
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Default Re: VW's suffer from poor reliability?

@ezee- it's good that you started this thread and I for one will be keeping a close watch on it. There have not been too many noises about poor VW A.S. S. on the forums possibly because the cars seem solidly built and most have been bought within the current/last year. But it's early days: wait and atch is all I can say!

The link you have posted is filled with illiterate-sounding comments, though. I don't know how much credibility I would attach to those. TBHP forums are a much better yardstick!
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Old 25th May 2011, 16:32   #25
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Default Re: VW's suffer from poor reliability?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajmat View Post
Reliability is a direct correalation to simplicity

VW's have become more complex

1: Engine - the diesels have turbocharging, high precision injectors,higher injector pressues etc. There are plenty of issues with Passat injectors

2: Electronic modules - Plenty of failures happening ESP, ABS and ECU failures are common

With electronics comes a lot of connections - my throttle body wire plays up. Luckily I know how to unplug and reset. A friend of mine called me since his ABS, ESP and tyre pressure light on his Superb came up - why- just did the wheel alignment and he went over a bump

3: Electronic - Mechanical interface - VW DSG plenty of issues with the mechatronics playing up

A lot is due to the last mile of integration - durability testing is an issue as also suppliers own testing. If VW used japanese electronic components, they might be halfway there!
Your first line makes a significant statement. But it should be about coming up with simplistic solutions for different problems. If not engineering has failed with the solution.

All the electronic control items mentioned are generic items present in each and every other manufacturer's cars. Its only Germans who keep having reliability issues with them.

People also keep talking about many features present on German cars but most of these features are independent of engine and drivetrain and should not impact them.
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Old 25th May 2011, 16:33   #26
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Default Re: VW's suffer from poor reliability?

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I am sure the guys who have gone in for VW cars expect these to be niggle free.
Naaah...We just went with VW because we are crazy, bold and were ready to take the risk of having a 4 year warranty and hoping the warranty process would be easy. Same is the case with Skoda owners here.

We are well aware of the thin A.S.S review in India and we took the decision to drive something fun and fast and "snobby".

To be honest even we are not aware of how the A.S.S is going to be. Sundaram Motors are usually not bad in Chennai. But again we are taking a chance with Sundaram motors compared to Abra.
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Old 25th May 2011, 16:45   #27
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Default Re: VW's suffer from poor reliability?

Friends,
Tell me one car manufacturer who has not thrown out lemons from their plants or had issues and recalls. Even Maruti cars suffer from all sort of issues, yet half of India continues to buy Maruti cars.

My post is not to list which car has what all issues. For the owner who has a bad experience with his vehicle, the feedback is going to be negative. But that does not mean all and every vehicle from a particular OEM is going to turn out to be a lemon.

Modern cars are far more reliable lets say when compared to cars even 10 years back. How many cars we notice on roads these days that have broken down? Nowadays you can buy almost any car from any manufacturer and chances are that it will be reliable. Sometimes bad luck strikes but they are rare.

So based on one or two negative reports, I dont think we should form a perception. We just need to watch out.

Last edited by dot : 25th May 2011 at 16:46.
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Old 25th May 2011, 16:55   #28
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Default Re: VW's suffer from poor reliability?

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Tell me one car manufacturer who has not thrown out lemons from their plants or had issues and recalls. Even Maruti cars suffer from all sort of issues, yet half of India continues to buy Maruti cars.
100% agreed, that any manufacturer can throw out lemons from their plants, but the only concern is when it does it needs to support the customer and not cheat them, and this is where Skoda (and it seems as per the thread VW) are not looking so good.

Something similar happened to my friends Safari and they just replaced the complete part free of cost, no contesting no going to consumer courts, no escalations, nothing. Another friend of mine had his Maruti car replaced.

PS : I am not a Skoda/VW owner, purely going by the thread.
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Old 25th May 2011, 17:12   #29
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Default Re: VW's suffer from poor reliability?

Is extended warranty on Vento being offered? Makes you think.

Most cars have problems but they are not the vehicle stalling, expensive parts type of problems.
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Old 25th May 2011, 17:54   #30
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Default Re: VW's suffer from poor reliability?

A Vento I know, which is just 5 months old and required Music system HU changes twice on account of erratic behavior (replacements done free of costs by VW) and the rattling problems caused by a loose front mud guard, creaking noises from the front door (which the service center bluntly said it can't help as it was a design flaw by VW ) I was wondering what all those car magazines actually meant by build quality! Now I don't consider the VW or the Skoda as a reliable brand.
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