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Old 9th June 2011, 16:00   #151
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Default Re: Honda India : The Way Forward

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Originally Posted by Guna View Post
And what was the FE both these delivered? NHC is normally known to be very good when it comes to fuel efficiency and FE was not Ikon 1.6's strong point. But your experience seem to be different.
The Ikon 1.6 would give me about 10.4-10.8 and the NHC would return around 11, which is near as makes no difference. I admit this is high for the 1.6, but Im not complaining. Because the NHC was so underpowered, I'd wind up revving a little higher in each gear to try and eke out some performance. In the ikon my upshifts would be around 2200, in the NHC closer to 2800.

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Originally Posted by bkbkr1212 View Post
What if Honda decides to reduce the price of their best selling car, City by 1 lac, for say a month? That will be a mouth watering prospect.They still can make huge profits on volumes.
Every other sedan, be it Vento, Verna, SX4,Fiesta etc etc will be jacked to death.
I couldn't agree more with the first part of your post, and couldn't disagree more with the second. When people say that 'X' is a good car, it's always an incomplete statement. 'X' can be a good car, but only at a particular price. For example, the ANHC isn't a bad car at all, but at it's price, I think it's abysmal.
Also, do you really think the Vento would suffer so much? Im not sure. They have the same brand cache as a Honda (globally, VW probably has more) and have you driven the Vento? It's fantastic. It feels so much better put together than the ANHC, and the driving dynamics are better, in my opinion especially on a long drive.

Last edited by ghostrider : 9th June 2011 at 16:04.
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Old 9th June 2011, 16:01   #152
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Red face Re: Honda India : The Way Forward

I seriously doubt that Honda is going to reduce the prices at all. After all they were the segment leaders few months back and they have their reputation at stake if they reduce the price. Classic example is the Jazz, they did not even attempt to reduce the price inspite of the competetion eating away the sales volumes. They preferred to offer tidbits on the accessories and the Insurance but reducing the price - No way.

Until and unless Honda comes out with a technological upgrade (for eg increased GC) they are bound to see a drop in the City sales.
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Old 9th June 2011, 16:17   #153
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Default Re: Honda India : The Way Forward

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Originally Posted by ghostrider View Post
I couldn't agree more with the first part of your post, and couldn't disagree more with the second. When people say that 'X' is a good car, it's always an incomplete statement. 'X' can be a good car, but only at a particular price. For example, the ANHC isn't a bad car at all, but at it's price, I think it's abysmal.
Also, do you really think the Vento would suffer so much? Im not sure. They have the same brand cache as a Honda (globally, VW probably has more) and have you driven the Vento? It's fantastic. It feels so much better put together than the ANHC, and the driving dynamics are better, in my opinion especially on a long drive.
Look, let us not forget Honda were segment leaders for quite some time. No one ever thought that cars like SX4 (Vento has everything in it to beat City) albeit diesel and Verna (A korean car is a korean car is a korean car) will outsell City.
Do you actually, honestly think that people judge cars on the driving aspects and other technical parameters of a car? I have seen lots and lots of people buying their vehicles just based on looks. They come to this "decision" after doing whole lot of R&D on almost all "technical" aspects and in the process throwing around all sorts of jargons:-)
Only Linea sales seemed to be totally unaffected amidst all these pandemonium

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Originally Posted by ghodlur View Post
I seriously doubt that Honda is going to reduce the prices at all. After all they were the segment leaders few months back and they have their reputation at stake if they reduce the price. Classic example is the Jazz, they did not even attempt to reduce the price inspite of the competetion eating away the sales volumes. They preferred to offer tidbits on the accessories and the Insurance but reducing the price - No way.
Until and unless Honda comes out with a technological upgrade (for eg increased GC) they are bound to see a drop in the City sales.
Doesn't that tell why Jazz is such a "hot" selling car ?
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Old 9th June 2011, 16:17   #154
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Originally Posted by ghostrider View Post
The Ikon 1.6 would give me about 10.4-10.8 and the NHC would return around 11, which is near as makes no difference. I admit this is high for the 1.6, but Im not complaining. Because the NHC was so underpowered, I'd wind up revving a little higher in each gear to try and eke out some performance. In the ikon my upshifts would be around 2200, in the NHC closer to 2800.
We may be going OT, but you are right about having to rev up the NHC to get some performance. Shorter gear also made things worse especially on highways.

It is also interesting how Honda had dropped the dual spark-plug technology which was said to help clean and lean burning. Combination of V-tech and dual plugs would have been interesting (Did NHC V-tech also had 2 plugs with just the top which was different?) Now every other car has variable valve technology and there is nothing which differentiates Honda.
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Old 9th June 2011, 23:43   #155
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Default Re: Honda India : The Way Forward

Adding to my previous post which is somewhere back there.
Two more things that Honda is known for, which set them apart from the rest.
1. Space Management
2. The right balance between Power and Fuel Economy.

~Space Management~
Honda are masters at carving out space even when there seems none could possibly exist. Take the Jazz for example. It is extremely spacious for a hatchback and easily the roomiest hatchback on sale in India. Heck it may even give many midsize saloons a run for their money as far as interior space is concerned.

~The Right Balance between power and fuel economy~
Another area where Honda is quite great at. Their silky smooth VTEC engines are rev happy and wouldn't mind staying at the redline all day long. Yet at the same time, the VTEC engines are quite fuel efficient when you want them to be, and in times like this where petrol prices have sky rocketed, that sure is a blessing.

Note:
The above comments are the way i look at things, and others are welcome to agree or disagree.

Drive Safe!
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Old 10th June 2011, 00:04   #156
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Even if the Brio is launched at a competitive price, it doenst mean anything to City/Civic/CRV/etc.. These have their own destiny to chase. The good news is that the products are excellent and worshipped here, and its bad marketing (greed?) thats bringing down the house. Not a tough problem to solve, if they are open-minded.

Honda will clearly have to--
- reduce the prices of the current line-up by min of 10-12%
- introduce diesel engines

In the interim, they could also toy with lower interest rates/fuel refunds/gifts/etc..

That is all assuming they want to be (remain?) a mass player.. They cant act like they are Acura and not Honda. India has moved on in past 12 yrs!

Pricing this ANHC so high clearly meant it would cannibalize the Civic sales and thus they killed the Civic E. While it worked for a while (they had staggering sales for the ANHC), the times have changed now. They are kidding themselves if they think the ANHC is knocking the entry D segment.. Its a solid C+ car, and has to stay within the C+ space..

Competition has surely woken up and more importantly, the competition is a lot more credible this time around unlike the Indigo/Ikon at one point in time.

Apart from lowering prices, a diesel or option is a must. Imagine a ANHC diesel priced 1+ lakh above the ANHC - its a non-starter. Hyundai CRDI engines are very decent, and so are the VW/Skoda/Nissan/Renault/etc. LPG/CNG can help, but are surely short term plays. We as a nation, are obsessed with diesels, and Honda stop playing stupid games around here.. Suzuki converted very well and is now laughing away to the banks.

That apart, Honda needs to get their A*S*S sorted out as well, as some of the T-BHP members have complained. They are still loyal, but its not hard to lose it all..

(although I was lucky that I havent had bad experiences and on one occasion, I complained to Honda and the dealer was under pressure to "close the case")
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Old 10th June 2011, 14:29   #157
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Default Re: Honda India : The Way Forward

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Originally Posted by mdsaab View Post
Note:
The above comments are the way i look at things, and others are welcome to agree or disagree.

Drive Safe!
In addition to above these points I would also say that Honda cars are most stylish and good looking than competitors. Just see the Civic, one fantastic looking car. No car in the segment can match the beauty of Civic.

Even consider the ANHC; it’s the best looking car IMO in the segment. Even the next gen Civic is based on City's design; it’s just a grown up City.

The hassle free ownership experience of Honda cars is simply unmatched. I do believe Honda will be back with a bang.

PS – looks are completely subjective, no offense please.

Last edited by bluevolt : 10th June 2011 at 14:31.
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Old 10th June 2011, 15:29   #158
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Default Re: Honda India : The Way Forward

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Originally Posted by Guna View Post
NHC is normally known to be very good when it comes to fuel efficiency and FE was not Ikon 1.6's strong point. But your experience seem to be different.
Based on my experience with a Honda for 1 year - while the engines are undoubtedly efficient, the general perception of a 'HUGE' FE difference could also be partly due to the FE displayed on the MIDs.

Most people would go by the FE displayed/calculated by the car and in my car it consistently overstates FE by anything between 1 to 1.5kmpl compared to tankful-tankful calculations !! That is a significant difference. Even ANHC owners have reported such discrepancies.
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Old 10th June 2011, 16:10   #159
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Originally Posted by shuvc View Post
Based on my experience with a Honda for 1 year - while the engines are undoubtedly efficient, the general perception of a 'HUGE' FE difference could also be partly due to the FE displayed on the MIDs.

Most people would go by the FE displayed/calculated by the car and in my car it consistently overstates FE by anything between 1 to 1.5kmpl compared to tankful-tankful calculations !! That is a significant difference. Even ANHC owners have reported such discrepancies.
This aspect I belive is common to most vehicles, not specific to Honda. Difference of 1-1.5 KMPL in accuracy is an acceptable fact for vehicles of all brands.
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Old 10th June 2011, 16:34   #160
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Default Re: Honda India : The Way Forward

Again while some of you debate about the ANHC, my question is it still a clear 'C+' winner by leaps and bounds? Even if you compare only petrol variants, I dont think that the ANHC is miles ahead of Vento / Verna / SX4. And there are trade offs. If Honda has a very good engine, then Vento has a better build quality. The SX4 offers superb service back up, the Verna is all new { too early to comment}, but looks good and has received decent reviews. The linea is underpowered, but looks a million bucks.
Secondly ANHC is not going to determine Honda's success in the country in the future with the rising fuel prices. They need a small fuel efficient Hatch { again I doubt if the Brio will be a massive success since its only going to be in Petrol and at 6 lakhs you have enough diesel hatches}.
All its other cars are not volume drivers and hence will not have any significance to Honda's future in India.
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Old 10th June 2011, 16:36   #161
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Default Re: Honda India : The Way Forward

Being a Honda owner myself i can say that the Honda makes the best petrol cars for average buyers. Though priced higher than the competition they justify their higher price tag in the longer run. People associate status with Honda cars too. Honda cars provide more satisfying driving experience for self-drivers. They give reasonably better efficiency compared to their counterparts. I can vouch for the fact that Honda cars have dual characters - Rev them hard and enjoy your driving, or drive sedately and extract more kms per litre. I have got a max fuel efficency of 18.9 on my ANHC on way to Agra. All of this at a speed of 100-120 Kmph.

Another point worth mentioning is about there designs, both exteriors and interiors.
I still like the OHC and a well maintained OHC doesn't look like an old design running on the road. Same is the case with 2GHC and ANHC. Even after close to 3 years since launch, ANHC is still looks good and refreshing on the road. There are still buyers for OHC which have clocked in excess of 50K kms. That itself shows customer confidence in Honda reliability. A 50K run Honda still holds better than a similarly run competitor car.

Also we all must consider the fact that Honda is the only company that continually re-invests into new models. 2GHC was selling well, still Honda discontinued it and launched a better ANHC. They charge a premium for their R&D, for their engines, for their designs and for their comparatively better after sales.

Still i think time has come for Honda to launch diesel versions of Accord and CRV first to stay in the game. Competitors are fast catching up and rising fuel prices are hurting even more.
Time for them to show why they are admired across the world for their engines, do the same in diesel engine and set new benchmarks like you have done for petrol engines.
I would love to see a Honda diesel, which would be as torquey as a German, and as reliable as a Japanese.

All things said and done, for me Honda is still "A gem of a car, a jewel of an engine".
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Old 10th June 2011, 17:10   #162
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In addition to above these points I would also say that Honda cars are most stylish and good looking than competitors. Just see the Civic, one fantastic looking car. No car in the segment can match the beauty of Civic.

Even consider the ANHC; itís the best looking car IMO in the segment. Even the next gen Civic is based on City's design; itís just a grown up City.

The hassle free ownership experience of Honda cars is simply unmatched. I do believe Honda will be back with a bang.

PS Ė looks are completely subjective, no offense please.
Yes you are absolutely right. Now the city was launched just over 2 years ago. compared to the Verna which is super fresh. But still the City can match up to the Verna and does not look dated at all.
About the Civic, Well we Civic owners are going to have a tough time finding an upgrade to our current rides. No, even the 3 series did not impress up. So it's quite a tall order for the next car to fill.
Good luck to the manufacturers, hope they catch us with a new car of theirs.
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Old 10th June 2011, 17:21   #163
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Being a Honda owner myself i can say that the Honda makes the best petrol cars for average buyers. Though priced higher than the competition they justify their higher price tag in the longer run.

There are still buyers for OHC which have clocked in excess of 50K kms. That itself shows customer confidence in Honda reliability. A 50K run Honda still holds better than a similarly run competitor car.

All things said and done, for me Honda is still "A gem of a car, a jewel of an engine".
50K?? My dad's OHC VTEC has done 175K+ kms and though the car feels aged that engine is still rev happy. And it's still reliable.

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Based on my experience with a Honda for 1 year - while the engines are undoubtedly efficient, the general perception of a 'HUGE' FE difference could also be partly due to the FE displayed on the MIDs.

Most people would go by the FE displayed/calculated by the car and in my car it consistently overstates FE by anything between 1 to 1.5kmpl compared to tankful-tankful calculations !! That is a significant difference. Even ANHC owners have reported such discrepancies.
I feel it's more like 2-2.5 based on my refill to refill estimates. But it's still like 13 - 14 in city and 18-19 on highways. Same as my WagonR in city and better in highways.
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Old 10th June 2011, 17:27   #164
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Again while some of you debate about the ANHC, my question is it still a clear 'C+' winner by leaps and bounds?
ANHC is a C segment car and it is the Civic which belongs to C+ segment.
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Old 10th June 2011, 18:54   #165
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My dad's OHC VTEC has done 175K+ kms and though the car feels aged that engine is still rev happy. And it's still reliable.
175k+ - man thats some figure to reckon with; you have beaten 50K consideraion with leaps and bounds
Nice to hear those words from you after 175K+ on a Honda engine. These words truely convey the classyness on Honda machines.
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