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Old 24th August 2014, 09:22   #436
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Default Re: Honda India : The Way Forward

Also, remember the power is there right from 1500rpm, no at 2500=. so do not expect the kick.
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Old 24th August 2014, 09:57   #437
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For someone who has done all these power comparisons with Swift, Verna, Vento on highways let me give my findings.
Swift looks fast initially but gets smoked by City.
City is on par with Verna which was surprising.
Vento smokes City and there is no doubt in that.
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Old 24th August 2014, 12:32   #438
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Coming back to the topic here we all know that Honda has revised its India operation and that they now want to be more mass market brand than they were say five years ago.

But what hurts me most is that in order to keep the prices of their products competitive in the market they have somewhat indulged in quality degradation. Mobilio is a good example of that. It's no longer a solidly build car that Honda name was associated with. I sorely miss the Civic. The car was one of the reasons Honda gained so much reputation in India. I strongly believe they should bring it back to India as the segment is getting some waves with the launch of Corolla. They may not generate good numbers here but it is a must have car in their portfolio anywhere in the world.
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Old 24th August 2014, 12:33   #439
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Default Re: Honda India : The Way Forward

Quote:
Originally Posted by harry10 View Post
For someone who has done all these power comparisons with Swift, Verna, Vento on highways let me give my findings.
Swift looks fast initially but gets smoked by City.
City is on par with Verna which was surprising.
Vento smokes City and there is no doubt in that.


The Swift will good in the initial stages due to the gearing hence faster pick-up but on later stages it looses out steam. I can say it is good till 120 kmph.

City and Vento, the Vento is a clear winner but City and Verna being on par with each other is a surprise.

Anurag.
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Old 24th August 2014, 12:38   #440
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Originally Posted by adimicra View Post
When I said fast, I was not talking about turbo kick. In fact, I would prefer something with less of a turbo kick.

Honda has done a clever marketing strategy by somehow managing that headline grabbing 100 PS number whereas in reality it does not feel that fast. I think for diesel engines, the torque numbers are more important.
Not just the torque numbers. The power to weight ratio is also an important factor for the power and acceleration delivery. The gear ratios play an important role as well when we talk about the drivability of a car. This is why verna is a great city car because the power delivery is linear compared to other cars.
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Old 24th August 2014, 12:53   #441
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I for one fell to Honda marketing gimmick of 100 PS and upgraded from my Swift VDI.. Tem-bhp review also sugggested that it feels quicker than dezire. But after driving for 20k in Amaze, I will not suggest it to any of my friend, unless all they need is a spacious car or a Honda badge.
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Old 24th August 2014, 13:44   #442
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Originally Posted by sunilsoft View Post
Not just the torque numbers. The power to weight ratio is also an important factor for the power and acceleration delivery. The gear ratios play an important role as well when we talk about the drivability of a car. This is why verna is a great city car because the power delivery is linear compared to other cars.
Yes, I guess we all know that but how much of an impact does it make in the comparison we are making here?
I have driven Verna only once and I did feel some turbo lag and even after that it did not feel anywhere close to the claimed 128 PS power number. So, in some ways, both the Verna and the City do not justify the power numbers. In comparison, the Vento feels like a rocket and it had less turbo lag than Verna as the torque kicks in pretty early.

Vento - Power = 105 PS, torque = 250 Nm @ 1500 - 2500 rpm
Verna - Power = 128 PS, torque = 260 Nm @1900 - 2750 rpm.

So, though the power difference is quite substantial, the torque difference is hardly there and on top of it, the Vento develops torque at a much lower rpm. No wonder, it has less tubo lag and smokes Verna in the in-gear acceleration.


So, coming back to the point, I feel the torque numbers and the torque curve is the most important factor for judging engines. In case of petrol engines, the torque and power numbers are both important as the petrol engines are normally revved higher and they are more rev-happy than their diesel counterparts.

Anyways, I guess most of us agree on the more important points about the Honda IDTEC and the overall decline in quality of Honda cars in India lately. I feel Honda India is at their peak today and the only way from here is down. They are pricing their cars at a slight premium with seemingly cheaper quality. The Indian public may be in the halo effect of the Honda brand till now but that's going to change sooner than later. And going by Honda's attitude, I don't think they realize this - they are thinking they have cracked the Indian market and know the success mantra. But, they are underestimating the India public and I'm afraid in the recent future (6-9 months may be), they will be facing the heat.

Last edited by adimicra : 24th August 2014 at 13:46.
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Old 24th August 2014, 13:44   #443
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Originally Posted by shashant View Post
I for one fell to Honda marketing gimmick of 100 PS and upgraded from my Swift VDI.. Tem-bhp review also sugggested that it feels quicker than dezire. But after driving for 20k in Amaze, I will not suggest it to any of my friend, unless all they need is a spacious car or a Honda badge.
I was also planning to upgrade from Vdi to Amaze. But a friend who upgraded from old generation Dezire Vdi to Amaze diesel had exactly same opinion as yours. Then I remapped my Vdi and intent to hold it for another three years.
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Old 24th August 2014, 14:43   #444
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Originally Posted by adimicra View Post
Anyways, I guess most of us agree on the more important points about the Honda IDTEC and the overall decline in quality of Honda cars in India lately. I feel Honda India is at their peak today and the only way from here is down. They are pricing their cars at a slight premium with seemingly cheaper quality. The Indian public may be in the halo effect of the Honda brand till now but that's going to change sooner than later. And going by Honda's attitude, I don't think they realize this - they are thinking they have cracked the Indian market and know the success mantra. But, they are underestimating the India public and I'm afraid in the recent future (6-9 months may be), they will be facing the heat.
Sir, well said. I echo your thoughts. Honda is not making the cars they used to earlier. The Honda city which was one of my dream cars in its 1st n 2nd gen has transformed into something else entirely in its new avatar. After a test drive of it recently I was so disappointed that I did not consider it in my probables list anymore. Honda's mass market strategy is only bound to hurt enthusiast's like us but the mango man population will ensure Honda's cash registers keep ringing !!
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Old 24th August 2014, 17:51   #445
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Well mostly all the cars that have been popular with the enthusiasts at the forum have not done well commercially. Be it the Fiats, Tata Safari, the Skoda RS and a host of others.

Car makers have share holders to answer to and will cater to the enthusiasts if these cars actually have takers in reasonable numbers. That said I do not agree with the way Honda has cut costs especially on the Amaze and Mobilio. This is an area where they will do well to learn from the other big H, i.e. Hyundai ( this is with respect to the interiors and not the dynamics of the car)

Last edited by rajneeesh : 24th August 2014 at 17:53.
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Old 24th August 2014, 18:10   #446
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Default Re: Honda India : The Way Forward

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Originally Posted by harry10 View Post
City is on par with Verna which was surprising.
Quite surprising indeed. A 100PS, 200 Nm motor being on par with a 128ps, 260Nm motor, that too with the former tuned to maximise fuel efficiency.

Whats indeed even more surprising is that you feel both on par despite the fact that the Verna does a 0-100 in 10.62 seconds, whereas the City does it in 12.8 seconds. (Both figures as tested by Overdrive magazine).

http://overdrive.in/reviews/honda-ci...-verna-diesel/

Last edited by CrAzY dRiVeR : 24th August 2014 at 18:18.
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Old 24th August 2014, 18:34   #447
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Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
Quite surprising indeed. A 100PS, 200 Nm motor being on par with a 128ps, 260Nm motor, that too with the former tuned to maximise fuel efficiency.

Whats indeed even more surprising is that you feel both on par despite the fact that the Verna does a 0-100 in 10.62 seconds, whereas the City does it in 12.8 seconds. (Both figures as tested by Overdrive magazine).

http://overdrive.in/reviews/honda-ci...-verna-diesel/
I was surprised myself. Verna is quick off the block. But I am talking about the speeds which I cannot mention on the forum. I had the pleasure of testing this with the Verna for at least 100km stretch. As per the figures of 128ps and 260NM Verna should smoke City easily but that was not the case. As per figures Verna should smoke Vento too but then again that's not true.

Usually I don't do such spirited driving but wanted to see how much City holds against Verna. In fact I feel with wider tyres of 195 profile I could have done even better.
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Old 30th August 2014, 17:00   #448
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http://indianautosblog.com/2014/08/honda-xr-v-143761


This XR-V seems to the Brio based SUV that we are expecting from Honda for India. If you see the front it resembles the initial rendering and prototype displayed by Honda. Looks good enough and better than the Ecosport in my opinion. Honda has another winner on their hands if this is it. I hope they improve their quality and introduce everything including start stop and 6 airbags which they do in cars abroad.

image courtesy: Indian Autos Blog

PS: Just correcting myself, Although the report on Indian Autos Blog mentions this to be the Vezel or HR-V iteration for China it doesnt look like that in my opinion and looks like a brio based SUV rendering that Honda has shown us before.
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Last edited by M00M : 30th August 2014 at 17:13.
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Old 30th August 2014, 20:06   #449
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PS: Just correcting myself, Although the report on Indian Autos Blog mentions this to be the Vezel or HR-V iteration for China it doesnt look like that in my opinion and looks like a brio based SUV rendering that Honda has shown us before.
I felt XR-V looks very similar to Vezel.

Here is the Vezel thread:
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/intern...ban-suv-5.html (Honda reveals Vezel - Urban SUV)
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Old 30th August 2014, 22:47   #450
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I sorely miss the Civic. The car was one of the reasons Honda gained so much reputation in India. I strongly believe they should bring it back to India as the segment is getting some waves with the launch of Corolla. They may not generate good numbers here but it is a must have car in their portfolio anywhere in the world.
New civic might be launched before Honda launches Jazz. May be someone could spot the test vehicle.
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