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Old 25th May 2011, 23:27   #46
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Default Re: Honda India : The Way Forward

Honda SIEL has been lethargic in the past few years, no doubt. They are living on past glories and no longer get away with their premium pricing strategy.

Also, their stubborn refusal to bring that 2.2 diesel to India is baffling. Were they not testing the CRV diesel sometime back? With Honda's engineering pedigree, surely, tuning that oil burner for Indian fuel quality is not beyond them??

Honda Japan is apparently developing smaller capacity diesels but this could take a few years at least. In the meantime, they should consider doing a Prius with the Brio, by developing affordable hybrids for emerging markets.

And make no mistake, Honda has to get serious about markets like India if they are to stay afloat as an independent car maker in the years to come. The American car makers have turned the corner, the Koreans are coming and fast, the Germans are getting aggressive in Asia and the Indian/Chinese car makers have grand ambitions. So Honda better watch out.
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Old 25th May 2011, 23:31   #47
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Default Re: Honda India : The Way Forward

Excellent thread GTO.


I have been a Honda Customer since the past 9 year.We bought our OHC in
02.We have even had 7 Honda's till date.But currently with the petrol prices
rising and no diesel coming,Honda is loosing out.They are even increasing the
prices of the cars.A plus point of their's is that they have an Brilliant
A.S.S.They should bring out a diesel,reduce the costs and add more features.
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Old 26th May 2011, 00:38   #48
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Default Re: Honda India : The Way Forward

Great Thread GTO

A certain observation/infrences

1) Honda is too stubborn to cut down the prices of Jazz, Arrogant management .

2) Honda is positioned as a premium brand hence pricing would be a big factor in detrmining the success of the Brio. IMHO they should keep it slightly above the similar hatchbacks at the same time not too high to end in a goof up like the Jazz.

3) The future i guess would be not to introduce a multitude of products but to provide same products (different variants) to new markets and position them for new markets , diesel and cng, lpg, variants of the same products are certain options.
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Old 26th May 2011, 00:38   #49
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Default Re: Honda India : The Way Forward

Brilliant Thread GTO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DKG View Post
April Auto Sales: Honda
American Honda Motor Co. said Tuesday its U.S. sales rose 9.8 percent in April from the same month last year on stronger sales of its fuel-efficient vehicles.
BY THE NUMBERS: The Japanese automaker sold 124,799 vehicles in April, up from 113,697 a year ago.
THE DIVISIONS: Acura, the automakerís luxury vehicle division, sold 11,604 units in April. Thatís up 8 percent from the same time a year ago.
TOP SELLERS: Honda sold 30,310 Accord sedans and 26,777 Civics in April.
HOT MODELS: Sales of the Fit subcompact car surged 73 percent compared with a year earlier, while sales of the CR-V crossover vehicle rose 30 percent.

Source
This is info available off the net ! And in India Honda is struggling.
From the Same Source as Yours

Quote:
April Auto Sales: Hyundai

Hyundai Motor America said Tuesday that April U.S. auto sales rose 40 percent, helped by rising demand for its fuel-efficient Sonata and Elantra sedans.

BY THE NUMBERS: Hyundai sold 61,754 vehicles in April, up from 44,023 a year earlier.

TOP SELLERS: The Sonata and Elantra autos are Hyundaiís most popular models, together making up 71 percent of all cars the Korean automaker sold in the U.S. last month.

HOT MODELS: Hyundai sold 22,100 Elantras, more than double what it sold the previous April, while Sonata sales rose 17 percent to 21,738. Sales of the smaller Accent sedans and hatchbacks rose 46.8 percent to 4,390. Hyundai said the Elantra, Accent and Sonata hybrid could all get 40 miles per gallon on highways.
9% growth for Honda vs 40% growth for Hyundai says a lot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
6) Hyundai. This is one damn lucky manufacturer. They advertised Getz as car of the year Europe 2006 in India. They got away with it. All its design earlier and even now are shameless copy. They have built themselves on copy. This is one manufacturer I dont respect. Neither are the newer products that better. The new Verna is not that good a handler I suppose. They are surviving on a) copycats and b) diesel. This is purley IMO.
Honda cars atleast have originality. Hyundai cars lack that too.

They invested in diesel engines R&D at right time. Something even Toyota missed.
I would disagree, the super reliable Japs of Today started the same way the Koreans did & look where they are today.

The perception of Hyundai is changing pretty fast in US,infact I know of two folks in my Brother's office(in Atlanta) who changed from their 3 series to a Genesis & are very happy with the change. And trust me they had no plans for Hyundai but the Value that the genesis delivered was unbeatable.

As for copied designs many say that the current accord looks strikingly similar to the previous gen 5 series. Take a look

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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Of course they'll say that. What American Honda Motor Co. does NOT say is:

- Honda's American marketshare dropped to 10.8 % in April 2011, compared to 11.6 in April 2010. That's nearly a full point in their biggest market. Plus, it indicates that the industry grew faster than Honda.

- April 2010 was a recessionary period for the US auto industry. And mostly everyone has gained M-O-M

BTW, Nissan overtook Honda for the first time in decades Linky
True, In April even Chrysler sales were up by 22%. Even Toyota which actually went Negative in sales sold a total of 159,540 units against 124,799 of Honda

The Accord however remained the top seller in its segment thanks to the special attention.

The April 2011 Market Share of Honda was 10.4 % compare this 9.4% of Hyundai & 13.8% of Toyota

Source

So I think they should indeed start worrying.
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Old 26th May 2011, 11:27   #50
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Default Re: Honda India : The Way Forward

Here's what I think Honda will do to counter the present slump:

1. Launch Brio
2. Bring out Jazz with a 1.5
3. Develop a diesel engine for City/Civic
4. Develop a small sedan alongside the Brio

I would also like to see the Jazz hybrid get launched in India

Long term India and China are important markets for any mfg. These are without question the big emerging markets. Globally I feel Honda will step up its focus on electric and alternative fuel vehicles. Honda is also known for highly cost efficient production technologies and that remains their key strength in remaining independent.

Its tough to foretell what will happen in the auto industry five years from now. Will Honda manage to remain independent? Very difficult question. I would like to see it merged with BMW as I see that company as one with best synergies with Honda. They perfectly dovetail and both have similar technology focus.

Hyundai is a giant not only as a auto company but as a group. They are one of the most formidable business groups on the planet. I once saw a documentary on their ship building business and was shocked to realise what a giant this company is. You will see Hyundai continue to scale up on the sales charts everywhere. They have enough might and muscle to weather the lows. Honda is a baby and its staying independent purely as a result of fierce innovativeness in product technologies, cost controls and manufacturing process advances.

Last edited by DKG : 26th May 2011 at 11:32.
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Old 26th May 2011, 12:02   #51
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Default Re: Honda India : The Way Forward

Honda India have been sitting on this nice massive perch and was looking at customers the same way dictators looked at their countrymen. Things will be smooth when all is nice but when a wave of revolution happens all the hell breaks loose and the dams cannot control the flow of water.

Honda did not take advantage of what they had. Good brand recall and great sales and also good second hand price for their cars. Now where they are is pathetic and well i do not care. They always priced their cars above the market and treated people like the License raj.

Few questions which annoys me is

1) CRV is a softroader and why is it so massively priced?

2) Accord is retailed at around $21000 in US, and whats the reason you asking us to pay more? You deserve to be down.

3) Civic is overpriced again and City is sold at the civiv cost.

4) Jazz sales numbers gives you an idea.

This is what happens when you loose touch with your customers.

Finally knowing Honda, if they ever launch a diesel they will price it at 2 lacs more than all their competitors and claim they sell the best car!!!

I prefer hyundai more who did the right moves and targetted the right customers. Would not be surprised if hyundai defeats Honda in their best market. USA. That day is not far
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Old 26th May 2011, 12:03   #52
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Default Re: Honda India : The Way Forward

Honda is a company that has invested heavily on fuel cell (they make the stack and other related components themselves unlike others) and hybrid technologies (they have a joint venture for developing and manufacturing Li Ion batteries). Maybe they are thinking about something that we dont know.
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Old 26th May 2011, 12:04   #53
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Default Re: Honda India : The Way Forward

Quote:
Originally Posted by DKG View Post
Hyundai is a giant not only as a auto company but as a group. They are one of the most formidable business groups on the planet. You will see Hyundai continue to scale up on the sales charts everywhere. They have enough might and muscle to weather the lows. Honda is a baby and its staying independent purely as a result of fierce innovativeness in product technologies, cost controls and manufacturing process advances.

Yes, Hyundai IS new Honda. Italic "H" dislodging regular "H". Even 5 years back who thought that day would come?
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Old 26th May 2011, 13:28   #54
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Default Re: Honda India : The Way Forward

@ Srishiva

I agree, Honda is looking into alternative technologies especially hybrids. But that is no excuse for their present generation of overpriced lacklusture products. Tata developing an E Indica does not mean that they can take customers for granted.

Honda has its strengths which it should focus on. Reading all the posts on this thread one gets a feeling that the company is doomed which is far from the truth, its just frustrating that a brand that many admire are simply taking things for granted.
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Old 26th May 2011, 15:29   #55
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Default Re: Honda India : The Way Forward

Last heard on the street - Just like most petrols today, Honda City is fast losing resale value. One more worry line for Honda Bosses.

A less than two year old 'preworshipped' VMT was quoted for 7 Lakhs by a friend in used cars business! Unbelievable, even six months earlier.
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Old 26th May 2011, 15:52   #56
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Default Re: Honda India : The Way Forward

I am a happy Honda Owner for past 15 months and I drive about 1800 kms every month my take

+ Excellent fit & Finish no comparo with Maruti's and Verna ( March 2010)
Excellent A** no complaints
Negligble Maintenance
-ve
Manmohan Singh ( aka Petrol Price )
Bumpy Ride ( Curse bad Gurgaon Road ) but sincerely after being in India for 12 year they can ideginise the suspension a vee bit

The Japanese Model of engineering excellence / Made in Japan is under threat world wide and Honda is no exception . A lot of Japanese co's are feelign the same heat worldwide ( Toyota , Hitachi etc. ) and sadly a great country which gave Sony TV & National VCR both a status symbols is being identified with Fukushima .

If I have to take this same decision today with choices between new Verna & VW Vento Honda will surely be no. 3 sorry abou that Honda .
Can they revive the same with Brio can't say till final products is out this is one segment which has stronger competition and they are not known to sleep on their laurels ( Think Maruti / Hyundai)
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Old 26th May 2011, 15:56   #57
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Default Re: Honda India : The Way Forward

I may add one bit. Bring out the AT versions of the Jazz and Brio asap. The pics all had the Brio AT (CVT by the looks of it). No new of it being launched in India.

Honda makes arguably the best compact AT units.
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Old 26th May 2011, 19:26   #58
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Default Re: Honda India : The Way Forward

I never fancied a Honda coz the company never fancied the real target audience of India. Hondas were always expensive and are going to be always expensive, atleast in India. the growth story in India is about 4-6 lakh hatch backs which honda missed out completely. The growth story in India is about 26-29year olds wanting to get a decent car for decent money. Yes, the honda city was always the king of the 8-9 lakh sedan segment, but they were never pioneers in offering features. Only when the SX4 was launched with all features, Honda responded by launching a feature laden OHC.
That the Honda city performed well in the past years is actually due to 2 reasons--Genuinely reliable engines, lack of a solid rival, like the vento now. Diesel is not the sole answer. Fiat has diesels too, but thanks to its poor dealership / after service it is doing far worse than Honda in spite of having the best sub-10lakh diesel engine. You need to listen to customers, build a product around them and then you can call yourself the leader! If Maruti is successful today, it is not because they are cheap, but they listen to their consumers. Their service is just top notch for someone who has 45% market share! And they always tried. Remember Zens and esteems with TUD4 Peugeot engines? And then the blockbuster--Swift diesel.
I doubt if Brio will revive honda in any way. If it's priced at about 6.5-7.5 lakhs, it will be easily over shadowed by the diesel new swift/polo/i20.
I never dream of buying a Honda and never will.
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Old 26th May 2011, 20:09   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amit27 View Post

Can they revive the same with Brio can't say till final products is out this is one segment which has stronger competition and they are not known to sleep on their laurels ( Think Maruti / Hyundai)
Seeing the pictures of the Thai version of the Brio in the [i]Autocar[i], my feelings are melancholic, to say the least. The thing does not have a proper hatch, just a glass pane, the dashboard, though the author assures is of good quality, looks like a transistor radio from the 70's and 80's, and the stereo just looks as if made from those assembly kits people bought 10- 15 years back for fitting in autorickshaws.
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Old 26th May 2011, 21:47   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeldo View Post
Seeing the pictures of the Thai version of the Brio in the [i]Autocar[i], my feelings are melancholic, to say the least. The thing does not have a proper hatch, just a glass pane, the dashboard, though the author assures is of good quality, looks like a transistor radio from the 70's and 80's, and the stereo just looks as if made from those assembly kits people bought 10- 15 years back for fitting in autorickshaws.
I agree and I don't understand why something which costs less has to look cheap and down-market too. The design can still look like the rest of the mainstream and it doesn't have to have dashboard with oddly placed air vents and controls! I have similar opinion about Etios dash design as well.
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