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Old 1st June 2011, 00:28   #91
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@pgsagar
You have changed my views on diesel engines with that post of yours. I especially liked the part where you drive more sedately because of the diesel engine.
Drive safe!
@chat
Agree with you 100% and is pretty much what i posted too.
@dot
Thats funny. Looks like its the right time to get some good discounts on them Honda's now.

Also to point out. It seems the resale values of honda's are falling too. I guess even people in the market for a pre-owned car are looking for a diesel too. Hence honda's taking a hit in their resales too.
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Old 1st June 2011, 10:02   #92
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Default Re: Honda India : The Way Forward

IMHO Honda's arrogance has led to their current state. i mean in spite of everything they will still not give discounts (i dont think insurance @ re 1 is a good enough discount for grossly overpriced cars)

yes they are the pioneer in many ways (only manufacturer to offer ABS and Airbags standard on all models is really really great) but they have also over the years shortchanged the indian consumer. none of their prices are justifiable (honda city included). i mean the accord and CRV diesel if they can exist in other markets why not in the indian market. things have come to a point where honda is doing something very unHondalike by playing catchup rather than being the leader. they have been more than caught napping and by the time they come out with diesels god alone knows where the market will be.

as mentioned by GTO honda needs to think of a quick fix by introducing CNG variants (they have beautiful petrol engines i am sure they can do something to not compromise performance on CNG). however availability of CNG may be an issue.

on current trends by the time the BRIO is launched petrol might just be Rs. 75/litre and this would seriously jeopardise the sales figures. time to look at some licensing options for honda i guess.

till then i the consumer shall only live in hope as being a honda fan i would love to see them fight back because when they do they will just race to the top (ANHC being a case in point in '08)
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Old 1st June 2011, 11:57   #93
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Default Re: Honda India : The Way Forward

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@pgsagar
You have changed my views on diesel engines with that post of yours. I especially liked the part where you drive more sedately because of the diesel engine.
Drive safe!
Thanks mdsaab! I was a big diesel critic myself once. But now I am a diesel convert and I am glad I did that.
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Old 1st June 2011, 14:50   #94
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Default Re: Honda India : The Way Forward

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Originally Posted by bullock-Car View Post
Interestingly Honda is perceived as arrogant and not listening and while Toyota as good listener and good learner. HOnda had a headstart over the Toyota in terms of entry, brand etc. Their brand was based on best technology is also slowly eroding, and dieselisation and higher petrol prices made things worse.
Honda seems like Hare while Toyota seemed like Humble Tortoise and winning the race.
Toyota is good learner, and have a good grasp of the market as well. Thats why they are a success with less fancy (at times a generation behind) models. Honda from their side, have always brought in latest generation cars to India, but I guess thats about it.
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Old 1st June 2011, 15:43   #95
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Default Re: Honda India : The Way Forward

I would like to quote the following lines from "bsmotoring.com" . These lines pretty much sum up my feelings for HONDA.

"Honda, you are a brilliant engineering company, something your founder based its principles on. You have found solutions to the most unlikely problems - the Honda Cub and Hero Honda CD100 for instance. You have gone where no other auto company in the recent past has gone and made private jets. The S2000 is a feat – it's taken until today for supercars like the Lexus LF-A and the Ferrari 458 Italia to get to those stratospheric 9000 rpm revlimit.

I don't care if you think the yen exchange rate is a problem and therefore you have to price your cars high. I do care that the Jazz is still priced a bit high. I don't care if you can't get the Civic Type-R since it is too much of a niche for India to make economic sense but I do care that you provide the City with more features. And a diesel engine. Do it right, Honda. You've done it right for so long in India and you seem to be tripping at this point. Let the competition introduce new products, don't worry so much of being out of the limelight. Get your product spec right, get your marketing strategy in order. Make us love your products the way we first loved them when the City first went on sale in 1998. Make us once again feel like there is nothing better than Honda for us Indians. Then sit back, relax and watch the cash registers start to ring!"

Link to the article "http://www.bsmotoring.com/storypage.php?autono=2526"
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Old 1st June 2011, 16:17   #96
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Default Re: Honda India : The Way Forward

This is just in. Honda is seriously in a very bad place. They sold 2,334 cars in May, beating only Fiat among the major players. I really think they need to do something asap to reverse this trend.....
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Old 1st June 2011, 17:55   #97
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Default Re: Honda India : The Way Forward

Great post, pgsagar! You're right about how a nice-sounding petrol transforms the nature of your right foot. My Civic is sometimes witness to the same thing.

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Originally Posted by pgsagar View Post
That is because there too many electricals involved in a petrol car. Induction coil, CDI, spark-plugs etc. On the other hand, diesel being compression-ignition is a lot simpler and once the engine fires up, it will only stop if you turn off ignition or if it runs out of diesel.
How about modern diesels, though? Don't they have a lot of delicate gadgetry too for the precision modern common rail units require, and for emission control?

Regards,
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Old 1st June 2011, 19:41   #98
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Default Re: Honda India : The Way Forward

I think the major problem with Honda in India is the price. Diesel or no diesel, they have to reduce prices. And up the marketing game a bit. Once a Honda made an owner have a superior air, but I think that brand value is getting diluted somewhere.
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Old 1st June 2011, 21:00   #99
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Default Re: Honda India : The Way Forward

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I think the major problem with Honda in India is the price. Diesel or no diesel, they have to reduce prices. And up the marketing game a bit. Once a Honda made an owner have a superior air, but I think that brand value is getting diluted somewhere.
It's not just lack of Diesel or lack of more features. Honda has their biggest enemy within their fold. It's their dealers. The poor Service support and arrogance has added to the lack of models and marketing support. I love my Civic but I can recount a number of times I felt like selling it because of pathetic service and poor response.

Discount or no discount, cult products can drive sales. Honda could have continued selling superbly engineered, though overpriced and under-featured products with some work on maintaining brand-loyalty. Unfortunately, that is not the case.

Honda themselves seem to have lost faith in their products in India and the Indian market in turn.

Forget Diesel or Discounts. Not sure many of us will buy a Honda in India for a long time. I sure will buy a Honda... But it has to be in US or elsewhere.
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Old 1st June 2011, 22:23   #100
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Default Re: Honda India : The Way Forward

@pgsagar: We have a high mileage diesel Qualis and the service inevitably is higher than the petrol cars. Can you post a comparison for service of a City vis-a-vis a Diesel Sedan?

Our Civic used to do 14km in 30 days average of 420 km a month. The car serviced post warranty at every 10k km with Synthetic oil or 1 year @ Rs 2000 for regular service while Qualis service is atleast Rs 4000/- . At same service interval servicing costs can not be matched as even the newer Diesels require a 6 months necessary service for oil change. Or maybe its just me that still thinks that the car needs to do least 2500 Km a month to get a Diesel in the present scenario.

As in my previous post, Diesels are getting there but still need mileage to make a point. I have recently become a petrol head after a long read 8 years with Indica and 6 years with Qualis. Driving City high revving Honda is a bliss no Diesel can achieve.

I will be a diesel advocate once BMW //M gets a Diesel heart

^nareshtrao: Honda might not top the JD Power Customer support but its not that bad either, there are few horror stories for the company than other manufactures. I had an Indica V2 that the service guys slowly butchered over the years :(
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Old 1st June 2011, 22:29   #101
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Default Re: Honda India : The Way Forward

I agree with most of the comments made earlier.
But c'mon guys when any tom-dick-n'-harry can understand, do you mean to say the company which has ruled the Indian market segment for a decade, who understood the Indian thinking pattern much earlier than GM(Opel-Chevy)/Ford/Fiat -- doesn't understand this??
I cannot believe this.

I am sure people at Honda are smart enough to understand this and will come up with some ace from the sleeve soon enough.

Last edited by RemingtonSteele : 1st June 2011 at 22:37.
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Old 2nd June 2011, 08:09   #102
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I am sure people at Honda are smart enough to understand this and will come up with some ace from the sleeve soon enough.
I doubt they have any ace in the pipeline for this year at least.

- Brio looks promising but its a compact hatch and the OTR may touch 6-7L. People will prefer an established bigger hatch at that price point.

- City with diesel engine is still a distant dream

- Only saving grace IMO is reduction in prices across the range especially Jazz and City.

- One of the Honda's cars which I always loved is the Odyssey MPV. If they manage to launch it in India with decent value proposition then IMO it will create its own niche.

Honda India : The Way Forward-2009_honda_odyssey_jdm_images_003.jpg

Honda India : The Way Forward-2009_honda_odyssey_jdm_images_004.jpg
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Old 2nd June 2011, 08:39   #103
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Default Re: Honda India : The Way Forward

Honda has fallen, and how! Hyundai has risen, and how!!!

Honda still has a huge fan base in India. The bottomline is if they want to be a mass player and not pretend otherwise. They seem to suggest that they want to be in the niche segment and that seems to be the crux of the issues. Honda has done wonders for itself and no reason why they cant do here if they come to terms with "Honda is Honda, and not Acura"..
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Old 2nd June 2011, 08:54   #104
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Default Re: Honda India : The Way Forward

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One of the Honda's cars which I always loved is the Odyssey MPV. If they manage to launch it in India with decent value proposition then IMO it will create its own niche.
Good car, but too big for our roads. Odyssey is almost of Merc R-Class size, and also with a petrol engine. And in my knowledge, they don't have it in diesel (I maybe wrong).

But yes, an entry into the MPV segment, with a rightly priced product could help Honda. Stream (based on Civic), or the Freed (based on the Jazz) are some of the options.
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Old 2nd June 2011, 12:04   #105
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Originally Posted by RemingtonSteele View Post
I am sure people at Honda are smart enough to understand this and will come up with some ace from the sleeve soon enough.
Honda are smart enough? Really? If they really were smart, they wouldn't have gotten where they are today.
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