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Old 27th May 2011, 21:44   #31
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Default Re: Tata Motors on a roll. Thanks to Jaguar, profit up THREE times to 9,000 crore rup

Tata motors domestic operations profits are down though,and with the European crisis showing no signs of abating JLR sales might take a hit in developed markets.

The Tata motors stock is down because primarily investor see a lot of headwinds in the coming quarters.Firstly rising fuel prices have already made most analyst downsize the growth of the Indian automotive market this year from the heady days of last years 30% growth.Rising interests rates do not help matters.

CV sales however will continue its uptrend with greater increase in infrastructure spending,better highways allowing more transportaion of goods,mining and construction also will allow CV sales to maintain its level.

Tata has a very clever small CV platform in the Ace and has been continously exapnding its product portfolio in that direction.Also with it now straddles the entire CV market from the smallest to the largest trucks.
  • However it needs to overhaul its Indica platform.
  • Aria was a sales flop,a lot of money went into its development that needs to be recovered.They can use their experience in Aria allow all that increase in build quality to percolate to its lower segment cars.
  • Nano is not selling at its optimal sales target,its around at 10,000 per month and Tata had initially planned it to sell at 250,000 units a year,so around 20,000 a month.It must be making wafer thin margins on the Nano.
  • Needs a car in between the Nano and the Indica platform,an A-star competitor.
  • Needs an i-20 competitor.
  • Needs a C+ segment car,bang in the Verna,Vento territory.Tata should go the Hyundai way,make feature loaded,practical,not-polarizing styled cars with fuel efficient engines and enough variants.
  • Where is the Automatic Transmission??They need to start equipping their cars one.A nice feature loaded,good looking diesel At sedan undercutting the verna and now you are talking.
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Old 27th May 2011, 22:16   #32
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Default Re: Tata Motors on a roll. Thanks to Jaguar, profit up THREE times to 9,000 crore rup

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Originally Posted by rrsteer View Post
Julupani, you are an expert in CVs. But the forces at play in the CV market are very different than the passenger segment. And Tata is not Maruti.

Secondly, with a different brand I meant a different brand for their future products. In all probability the vista, the manza..etc will continue in production even when their successors are launched. Now the improvement that Tata products demonstrate with each iteration is noteworthy. It is only time when they hit the bulls eye in terms of a product potential. But even a great product from Tata today, I feel, is not guaranteed success. People may not agree, but my personal take is that the Tata brand doesn't tick certain important parameters.

So they can probably launch these fresher and better models under a different brand and continue the current models and some more, under the Tata brand.

Also a high end 15 lac sedan is not the only segment they can target, a Verna/Vento/City competitor can be looked at. I remmember they showcased the Prima (concept car) in Geneva auto show last time round.
And it looked smashing. Now, I would imagine that such a car launched intelligently ( in terms of marketing) can really hold up against the Germans & the Japanese.
True the CV segment is different from the passenger segment. But in my opinion Tata's position in the CV segment is even stronger than Maruti's in the passenger car segment. Especially when you consider that CVBU R&D seems ready to jump into the future with a host of vehicles like the New Divo Intercity bus, the Prima truck range, the Super Ace etc spanning the whole ambit of CVs unlike Maruti which primarily depends on the cheap small car.

Thanks, I did miss the 10lakh sedan segment in the Tata range. I had also missed out that in the pickup segment of the CVs, Tata's sole product the 207DI is not doing as well, with the onslaught of the huge range of Bolero based products and now the Genio.

As for the Tata brand in automobiles is not yet the strongest out there, but the idea should be to build on the brand, and not start over from scratch. Tata have to improve the quality, consistency and feel of the cars that come out of their factory. Also only now with the Aria is their design showing a sense of maturity. Hopefully if the Aria is anything to go by, the future of Tata branded cars is also very good. But here I am talking about a medium-long term future, not the next 1-2years.
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Old 27th May 2011, 22:20   #33
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Default Re: Tata Motors on a roll. Thanks to Jaguar, profit up THREE times to 9,000 crore rup

The key story is one line about Tata Motors standalone that GTO neglected to delve deep into:
Quote:
The PBT for the year is Rs.2,197 crores as compared to Rs.2,830 crores in the previous year.
Revenues grew 35%, PBT fell 25%. Ergo - They are screwed.

TML is on anything but a roll. More like a slippery slope
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Old 27th May 2011, 22:30   #34
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Default Re: Tata Motors on a roll. Thanks to Jaguar, profit up THREE times to 9,000 crore rup

That will be the story of pretty much every manufacturer, especially ones which depend heavily on CVs. Rising input costs have lead to decrease in margins compared to last year. Remember this year in the CV segment already saw a big price increase midway due to introduction of the BSIII norms nationwide. This would have prevented a proportional increase in prices to maintain volumes. Thus this may from a financial point of view look like a slippery slope, but it actually may not be the case.
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Old 27th May 2011, 22:33   #35
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Default Re: Tata Motors on a roll. Thanks to Jaguar, profit up THREE times to 9,000 crore rup

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Originally Posted by julupani View Post
I disagree that CVBU is going to lose any market share in any serious terms over at least the next decade or so. Even the last 5 years have seen new brands like MNAL, AMW, MAN Force etc but none of them have made any serious dent at all. The only serious competition I see is from Bharat Benz, but I still have my doubts as to whether they will even get close to the price and life cycle cost advantage of Tata or Leyland.
I agree with julupani, it will take time for the new entrants to catch up with TM. But what about AL? In the Bus market, they are loosing market share to AL, Mini Bus, once a monopoly segment of TM is loosing out to Mahindra and AL. So they need to invest more in domestic products (R&D). If they dont focus on Bus/Mini bus segment now, what happened to UV vehicles will happen to this segment also. With the amount of investment committed to JLR for the next 5 years, TM will find it hard to invest as much as in domestic products, as it would have liked. This may affect the medium term.
Quote:
Originally Posted by julupani View Post
And I dont think selling the Manza/Safari/Aria etc under a different brand name will work, as most people will just see through it.
To start with may be they could create a sub brand such as "Tata Premium". Seperate waiting room, check in counter, service bays etc for the Tata Premium in its Service centers. It can even seperate out the "Tata Premium" service centers (Fiat also can be added to the Tata Premium). In its passenger cars division itself, TM classifies some products as "Commercial use" and some as "Priviate use" and package and market accordingly. They need to have the same seperation in Service centers also.
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Old 27th May 2011, 23:04   #36
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Default Re: Tata Motors on a roll. Thanks to Jaguar, profit up THREE times to 9,000 crore rup

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Originally Posted by teamveevee View Post
To start with may be they could create a sub brand such as "Tata Premium". Seperate waiting room, check in counter, service bays etc for the Tata Premium in its Service centers. It can even seperate out the "Tata Premium" service centers (Fiat also can be added to the Tata Premium). In its passenger cars division itself, TM classifies some products as "Commercial use" and some as "Priviate use" and package and market accordingly. They need to have the same seperation in Service centers also.
I don't think having a separate room will solve the problem. However either having a separate set of service advisors to tend to the high-end customers to get them out of dealership asap would help or they could offer the pickup-dropoff / loaner vehicle concept for high-end customers will also help.

Now that Toyota is also entering the mass/expensive market it would be interesting to see how they differentiate between ETIOS/LIVA customer service vs. CAMRY/LAND CRUISER customer service.
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Old 28th May 2011, 06:46   #37
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Default Re: Tata Motors on a roll. Thanks to Jaguar, profit up THREE times to 9,000 crore rup

@teamveevee

R&D in the CV sector is I think progressing well, as outlined by the many products that they have come up with. As for the L/ICV bus segments, AL's Lynx and MNAL city bus do exist but you forgot the 2nd biggest brand here, Eicher. But here too did you expect AL and MNAL not to sell any buses at all. I still see TML maintaining market share of over 75% here, and already these buses are getting upgraded to BSIV by Tata. So even there the product development seems to be moving.

As for TML in the H&MCV bus segment, they have never been leaders but are slowly but surely catching up. They have moved much closer to ALL in the last 3-4years. In the fully built segment they already have a good lead. Its only in the chassis built segment that they are a bit behind. Here what they lack is something slightly higher than the 180hp engine. If they continue their present course, they should do decently well.
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Old 29th May 2011, 02:11   #38
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Default Re: Tata Motors on a roll. Thanks to Jaguar, profit up THREE times to 9,000 crore rup

Extremely Happy to see this !!!


Go TATA !!!

They started from scratch and are growing from strength to strenght.
Sure they have had their hiccups , their flaws too - but they always keep trying to improve.

& simple 2 points why I LOVE THEM !

1. INDIAN - automobile manufacturer - proud to be Indian. Be India, Buy Indian. If we do not support our own economy, who will. & an iconic clean principle oriented brand such as Tata deserves our support.

2. VFM - Value for Money products. No unnecessary fleecing. Always sticking to the More Care Per Care concept. No fancy gimmicks. But trying to offer a good package made especially for the Indian consumer.

Their commercial fleet is also very good !

Did you know fact : worth a mention

They have electric Indicas in Norway since quite sometime
&
Indica Vista Electric - won all the top honours & awards in UK last year.
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Old 29th May 2011, 13:07   #39
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Default Re: Tata Motors on a roll. Thanks to Jaguar, profit up THREE times to 9,000 crore rup

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Originally Posted by phamilyman View Post
The key story is one line about Tata Motors standalone that GTO neglected to delve deep into:


Revenues grew 35%, PBT fell 25%. Ergo - They are screwed.

TML is on anything but a roll. More like a slippery slope
Correction accepted. On my way to change the title. Thanks!
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Old 29th May 2011, 15:05   #40
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Default Re: Tata Motors on a roll. Thanks to Jaguar, profit up THREE times to 9,000 crore rup

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Correction accepted. On my way to change the title. Thanks!
Danke!

Though yes, they must take the credit for managing the takeover very nicely. Alot of M&A goes REALLY bad because of cultural gaps and because the new management just does not understand what it takes for the acquired company to succeed.

To that end, Tata have delivered.
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Old 30th May 2011, 11:23   #41
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Default TATA immedeate future

Well Tata finally seems to be getting a move on, they have a slew of launches lined up prior to March'12. This was revealed in a company presentation:
  • NANO variants: Diesel a high possibility, unclear about higher end variants and CVT (pleaasse)
  • VISTA refresh: Facelift?!! differentiate from std. Indica?!
  • MANZA limited edition: unclear what this entails, personally the JLR V6 diesel might be nice, under 8 lacs!!
  • New SAFARI/MERLIN: Plenty of insights and rumors on the respective thread, nonetheless highly anticipated by everyone other than perhaps Tata themselves!!
  • ARIA: 2WD, Lower spec, traditional Tata pricing!!
I believe all the above models other than the limited Manza should give TML a major volume boost. Perhaps the most important will be the Vista and Aria variants especially after the investment on new platforms, they are yet to realize full potential. If Tata handles the Nano diesel variant well, their volumes should easily help Nano clock 15k units monthly!! Now with the assembly operation in place one can hope for more locally assembled Jag and LR models at competitive prices.

Wait and watch I guess. Best of luck Tata.
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Old 30th May 2011, 13:24   #42
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Default Re: Tata Motors on a roll. Thanks to Jaguar, profit up THREE times to 9,000 crore rup

Quote:
Originally Posted by phamilyman View Post
The key story is one line about Tata Motors standalone that GTO neglected to delve deep into:


Revenues grew 35%, PBT fell 25%. Ergo - They are screwed.

TML is on anything but a roll. More like a slippery slope
In my opinion this is an extreme comment - in tighter times like this, it is better to get the top line to grow and then concentrate of bottom line when the tides turn. The current scenario is that though the international markets are down and raw material prices are on a high, the domestic market is growing. So it would be better to concentrate on volumes than on margins. Once the input costs stabilise, the company would be in a better position to reap the benefits with a better base. Hence I am not in agreement with the change of title. It could be "Indian operations less so" instead of "not so". They are growing in every other parameters except the PBT and operating profit margins (in terms of percentage)
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Old 30th May 2011, 14:30   #43
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Default Re: Tata Motors on a roll. Thanks to Jaguar, profit up THREE times to 9,000 crore rup

Mowgli da,

If there's no PAT, there's no equity and the company gets wiped out. Like Bank failures in USA (Bad volumes vs a margin play again)

Or maybe the dotcom bust, if you will. Lots of revenues but no focus on bottomline!

The company that makes it through is the one who has the most cash reserves, than unsold inventory. You may wish to refer to the mint article. The signals are there. Just volumes is a dangerous prescription.

Assuming all things same (for a moment) - the incremental growth in revenue of Rs 13772cr brought PBT losses of 633cr. yoy comparison a PAT basis(FY10 vs FY11):
TML PAT 2243 1812 JLR PAT 328 7462 Infact, with due respect, what is extreme is your optimism. But for the economy's sake i hope you're right!

PS: MoneyControl agrees - Tata Motors slides on concerns over standalone growth - Moneycontrol.com -
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Old 9th June 2011, 21:57   #44
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Default Re: Tata Motors Results : Jaguar Land Rover very profitable, Indian operations not so

Talking of facts - the market has made up its mind.

Tata Motors
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