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Old 31st May 2011, 10:07   #61
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Default Re: How will the market change if Petrol and Diesel prices sky-rocket

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Originally Posted by srikanthns View Post
I have to disagree here. The availability of cabs and autos is not always assured. Please come to Trivandrum. Not the off peak hours, even in peak hour, try to get an auto in the heart of Trivandrum, near railway station. You have to pass an "interview" by the auto driver about the destination, distance and his liking to your destination. If you pass the "interview", yipeee... , you are lucky.
I was once begging for auto / taxi wallahs to come to my residence to take my mother to a hospital that was 4 km away at 10p.m. Nobody came. Finally I took my mother in my bike though she was having chest pain, and got a firing from doctor.
Can you argue economics in such a scenario? No way. For me , even if it is a second hand Zen, rattling in all the joints, it is better to have one's own car.
My fault. I was alluding to taxis taken on a monthly basis, and not the one off case. I have only Delhi as a bench mark, and here you can get a taxi for 8hr/80km at 800, or negotiate it between 10k and 15k monthly. What you get in a monthly package is 80km/12hrs on weekdays. Sundays and night extra.

If you are paying an EMI of 10-15k and hire a driver for 7-10k, you are better off, even if you have to pay extra for night and Sunday. Yes you have the residual value after the EMI is over, but then you have paid less any way over the period of EMI for the taxi. The added advantage is that the operator will always give you a vehicle and a driver, no break downs no absentees.

If you are driving a small hatch with no driver then the equation changes marginally in your favour, if you take the total cost of ownership into account.
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Old 31st May 2011, 10:16   #62
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Default Re: How will the market change if Petrol and Diesel prices sky-rocket

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Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
This is a risky practice. The car must be under 'power' at all times. In any case with your foot off the throttle you consume the same amount of fuel as at idle.
Sir

are you sure about that? I read somewhere that modern cars would stop injecting fuel once the ECU detects coasting. This is true for petrol cars at least (don't know about diesels, but from what I have read here, they already inject variable quantities of fuel depending on the need for power - doing coasting adjustment is probably easier for them)

The car will consume idling fuel only if he is releasing the throttle AND depressing the clutch.
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Old 31st May 2011, 10:50   #63
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Default Re: How will the market change if Petrol and Diesel prices sky-rocket

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Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
That is very risky. The car should be in gear all the time. Try it, and you will fail your driving test in the UK pronto!
Is it advisable to drive choc a block traffic by switching between neutral and gear to reduce the wear and tear on the clutch box ? Any idea
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Old 31st May 2011, 10:50   #64
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Default Re: How will the market change if Petrol and Diesel prices sky-rocket

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Sir

are you sure about that? I read somewhere that modern cars would stop injecting fuel once the ECU detects coasting. This is true for petrol cars at least (don't know about diesels, but from what I have read here, they already inject variable quantities of fuel depending on the need for power - doing coasting adjustment is probably easier for them)

The car will consume idling fuel only if he is releasing the throttle AND depressing the clutch.
I had read some where that the ECU will supply as much fuel as it thinks is needed. When the car is running with foot off the pedal it reduces the fuel to absolute minimum to keep the engine ticking. That is why you decelerate quite fast with foot off the pedal, in contrast while idling more fuel goes as the engine has to be run at a minimum RPM, less it stalls. Both my Esteem and Alto K10 run at around 15kmph in second gear with foot off the pedal, so I assume that idling speed == 15kmph/2nd gear and that is how much petrol is used for idling! 3rd gear onwards the car cannot maintain the speed and stalls.

So for better FE and more control on down hill sections, drive with foot off the pedal, rather than coasting in neutral. On plains if you have to coast long distances, switch the engine off, but then you are risking your life as you are helpless in case of any emergency. (In my Esteem the power brakes do not work with the engine off!). On the whole I get better FE if I use the engine optimally both to accelerate as well as to decelerate.
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Old 31st May 2011, 16:47   #65
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Default Re: How will the market change if Petrol and Diesel prices sky-rocket

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Originally Posted by vasoo View Post
Any increase in fuel prices can only make it worse with bus fares already not very economical and service erratic. For example in my area, it costs me Rs10 on regular non-A/c bus to travel some 3-4 kms and for Volvo it's double of that.
Are bus fares really that un-economical? I do agree with the erratic service. To my mind if the service is regular, then public transport is far better than regular use of private vehicles. Case in point - Singapore.
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Old 31st May 2011, 17:11   #66
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Default Re: How will the market change if Petrol and Diesel prices sky-rocket

It's going to be a hell of a ride for petrol engine manufacturers in the near future. It would be interesting to see what happens when a liter of petrol costs as much as a movie ticket at a premier movie theater.

However, I feel diesel is relatively safe. All you diesel vehicle owners will have truck drivers for protection for a long time to come
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Old 31st May 2011, 17:52   #67
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Default Re: How will the market change if Petrol and Diesel prices sky-rocket

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Originally Posted by Fornax View Post
Petrol hitting Rs.100 would be a boon, because that will mean much fewer cars on the roads, as many would take to public transport / bikes. However the likely best case scenarios would be, people installing CNG kits for their guzzlers, and since CNG is locally available, we might end up saving a lot on oil-pool deficit nationally.

+1 I fully agree that petrol & diesel should hit the 100 + mark very soon, this will force people to use the public transport. If the public transport is used by one and all then definitely there service will also improve for sure. In Bangalore you will see lot of private vehicles with just one person in a car, I agree that all of us deserve the comforts of a private car but not at the cost of environment and clogging roads which were never meant for taking such traffic .
Mass rapid transportation systems are the only way for a better future and all advance cities are going that way.
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Old 31st May 2011, 18:33   #68
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Default Re: How will the market change if Petrol and Diesel prices sky-rocket

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Originally Posted by tj123 View Post
+1 I fully agree that petrol & diesel should hit the 100 + mark very soon, this will force people to use the public transport. If the public transport is used by one and all then definitely there service will also improve for sure. In Bangalore you will see lot of private vehicles with just one person in a car, I agree that all of us deserve the comforts of a private car but not at the cost of environment and clogging roads which were never meant for taking such traffic .
Mass rapid transportation systems are the only way for a better future and all advance cities are going that way.

why would the public transport fares not increase once the fuel prices increase?
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Old 31st May 2011, 20:28   #69
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Default Re: How will the market change if Petrol and Diesel prices sky-rocket

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It's not a question of opinion.

Electro Automotive: FAQ on Electric Car Efficiency & Pollution



When only Brazil was using ethanol, around 3% of the world's fuel came from ethanol. When the US started using it, it went up to around 5%. The increase from 3% of 5% caused a significant impact on food prices.
If the usage of ethanol even doubles, food prices will good up significantly.
Sorry was tangled in electric cables.Therefore did not respond sooner (Electric Vehicle Association of Greater Washington, D.C (EVA/DC)) As a researcher myself most research scholars can debate and experiment to get positive results. Not that am completely rubbishing the results. Here is how the story goes, most of the research you presented was done in the mid 1990's. Hence, is obsolete. In Utopia, even if we did maintain long range electric vehicles or sporty ones e.g the Tesla the amount of power consumed to distance travelled would not be justified in reducing prices or pollution..
The link you so righteously pasted is talking about containment of pollution by various means in developed nations with little or no dearth of funds, E.P.A, proper dumping facilities,e.c.t..
Lets talk India and our problems with fuel and electricity.
lets talk real time ground realities where people still steal power, entire cities black outs because the transformers could not keep up with the load.
we don't even have the abundance of copper high tension wires in our grid.
I will not be the one to throw a glove back at the screen my friend by posting links but there is enough of recent research panning the electric dream.Surf the net for:-
Gasses produced, Financial effects, Real world usability of these vehicles,setting up plants of alternative energy production, lead dumping, excess coal mining , oil and natural gas burned to produce electricity vs being used to run cars.
Ethanol causes food shortage is rubbish. Fuel crop! the amount of it which rots away in storage in India is not funny.
The answer still is
1)smaller happier fuel efficient engines (which can function on bio-fuels or even plant oil)
2) The government starts regulation of diesel
3) limiting the number of cars bought per house as per the size of the family by law.(no am zoning out)
p.s- lets face it food , soap , beer and begging everyone's pardon even our undergarment are going to jet into costing outer space if we don't clamp down on this fuel crises BUT I REPEAT ELECTRIC IS NOT THE WAY TO GO RIGHT NOW!
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Old 31st May 2011, 20:55   #70
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Default Re: How will the market change if Petrol and Diesel prices sky-rocket

I guess US has spoiled me with the good roads and nice cars. First time I went back to India in 2009, I realized that I had lost what it takes to fight it out in the overcrowded public transports. Also one needs to change a minimum of 1 bus/auto from my home to reach office - which takes around an hour and 20 minutes to 2 hours. If I drive and the traffic is ok, i can make that in 45 minutes to 1 hour in 1000% more comfort. I gave up and used the car everyday. Don't think I can go back to using public transport. So i have to dole out whatever it takes to fill up. Luckily times have been good for the IT industry (touch wood) - and I have not had to cut down on my fuel spending.
I guess the need of the hour is efficient, clean and comfortable public transport. If not that - carpooling is the next preferred choice.
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Old 31st May 2011, 20:59   #71
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Default Re: How will the market change if Petrol and Diesel prices sky-rocket

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Originally Posted by vina View Post
why would the public transport fares not increase once the fuel prices increase?
That's exactly the point and I feel economy bikes will sell more in such a scenario. Even with the current diesel price, bus charges are around Rs2 per km or more in city routes. Small bikes in 75 to 100cc category may find a new market. A bike that gives 75 kmpl will be much more economical than traveling by bus, more so with a pillion.

Last edited by vasoo : 31st May 2011 at 21:00.
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Old 31st May 2011, 21:05   #72
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Default Re: How will the market change if Petrol and Diesel prices sky-rocket

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Originally Posted by blackasta View Post
.
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I guess the need of the hour is efficient, clean and comfortable public transport. If not that - carpooling is the next preferred choice.
So often we forget that public transport needs to be efficient , clean and comfortable - the first thought that comes to my mind is the shambolic tom tomming of the Mumbai local trains as a viable public transport !
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Old 31st May 2011, 21:20   #73
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Default Re: How will the market change if Petrol and Diesel prices sky-rocket

I am just thinking aloud here.
Why should government subsidize diesel for SUVs and cars for personal use ?
I think diesel that goes into cars should be charged the rates of petrol itself. Having said this let me say I own a diesel car.
Also I am aware that in such a system there is no way of regulating lower priced commercial diesel(for trucks and public transport) from going into the fuel tanks of cars who would be happy to pay half the price difference for the same commodity(diesel).
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Old 31st May 2011, 21:58   #74
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Default Re: How will the market change if Petrol and Diesel prices sky-rocket

I wonder why commercial trucks should be subsidized? After all, they are private companies with profits in mind. They will have to find a way to adapt to the new prices by increasing efficiency and reducing other costs. Maybe that will encourage demand for more localization of manufacturing and farming, who knows? No body needs a subsidy.
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Old 1st June 2011, 10:19   #75
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Default Re: How will the market change if Petrol and Diesel prices sky-rocket

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Originally Posted by figo_mba
I think diesel that goes into cars should be charged the rates of petrol itself. Having said this let me say I own a diesel car.
True. A better option is to make the differential between petrol and diesel versions higher. Eg. currently a D version of Swift costs ~75K more than petrol. Double it to 1.5lakhs or better make it 2lakhs - this will hopefully cover the diesel-subsidy the owner will use up over the life of the car. As the cost of car increases, increase the differential proportionately. For a 10lakh car, make the diesel version 4 lakhs costlier. At 20lakhs, make it 8lakhs more and so on.

This is better than differential pricing of diesel for cars vs trucks/farms which will only give scope for corruption and to line the pockets of gas-station folks.

Last edited by supremeBaleno : 1st June 2011 at 10:22.
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