Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > The Indian Car Scene


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 13th August 2011, 13:55   #91
rkg
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: bangalore
Posts: 1,041
Thanked: 543 Times
Default Re: TATA motors (excluding JLR) sales continue to drop

Quote:
Originally Posted by figo_mba View Post
Are we forgetting the Mahindras here.

With technology from others I meant MJD engine and gearboxes for Vista.

And technical center in UK, is something they got during the JLR deal. Yes they are strong in some technologies. Also they mostly act as outsourcing hub. They are involved in baselining and shelving future technologies. And most of the work is outsourced to competent Indian companies.

Tata electronics is not just low quality parts sometimes complicated design.
Sometimes there are good features that are good to have but it increases in complexity which might be tough to implement and even more tougher to maintain let alone service it.
So maruti's DDIS is its own?

hyundai crdi is its own?

No automobile company in world produces all the parts required. all the crdi cars now have either bosch/delphi pumps not made by themselves
rkg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th August 2011, 15:58   #92
BHPian
 
mohandas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 266
Thanked: 27 Times
Default Re: TATA motors (excluding JLR) sales continue to drop

Quote:
Originally Posted by rkg View Post
hyundai crdi is its own?
YES. Very much their own. It's U -series I4 diesel engines that comes from Hyundai Kia Auto Group. This U-series has 3-pot 1L engine and 4-pot 1.4, 1.5 an d 1.6 engines.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rkg View Post
No automobile company in world produces all the parts required. all the crdi cars now have either bosch/delphi pumps not made by themselves
Can't digest your logic here. May Bosch/Delphi provide the component, but how this nullifies the engine technology.


To all:
Btw, Tata is the only brand, who does not believe on "eat your dogfood" mantra. Neither Ratan (Tata) nor his employees ( check out a TCS office near your house ) feel proud of owning their own brand.
You don't have to believe me on this, just do a google with keywords "Ratan Tata's Garage"
mohandas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th August 2011, 17:07   #93
BHPian
 
torquecurve's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Pune
Posts: 598
Thanked: 629 Times
Default Re: Tata's lean run in passenger car sales!!

@ Figo_mba - When you say complicated electronics, what exactly are you referring to? If you are talking about switches which work after 10 minutes suddenly they probably are switches which have been used abused and need to be replaced.
The electricals are not complicated at all. By the way, does your cars headlamp have additional connectors which will back up the current connectors built in? You can use these connectors to run Aux lamps as well. This is not complicated, but sensible as a person would not need to cut the harness to add new components.

Talking about quality and performance I have not heard of the Vista Tdi failing suddenly when shifting gears or stalling at a certain rpm!
Quote:
mohandas
To all:
Btw, Tata is the only brand, who does not believe on "eat your dogfood" mantra. Neither Ratan (Tata) nor his employees ( check out a TCS office near your house ) feel proud of owning their own brand.
You don't have to believe me on this, just do a google with keywords "Ratan Tata's Garage"
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/super-...tml#post797606 (Ratan Tata's cars)

Please read the post on our very own Tbhp. Moreover as a CEO what do you expect Mr Ratan Tata to drive? Also before making such sweeping statements I would suggest you to please do some reading. The respect that Tata employees, including TCS have for the brand Tata is very high. Even in todays age, this is one of the most employee centric organisations there is.

Last edited by torquecurve : 13th August 2011 at 17:29.
torquecurve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th August 2011, 17:15   #94
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Chennai
Posts: 162
Thanked: 101 Times
Default Re: Tata's lean run in passenger car sales!!

First of all let me clarify my views which are purely based on working in TML as well as other Indian & Japanese OEMs.

1. TATAs' forte is the spaciousness, the affordability and the VFM offers.

2. Lot has been said and discussed on the A.S.S. of TML, but I do see that most places have become as competent as the others. Though the odd ones do crop, the general perception in fact oputs them in real bad light.

3. The competencies of most Tata Engineers is as good as the others (both India & abroad). Never under estimate the prowess of not just Tata but any Indian R & D company. Do remember that Tata has a world class R & D facility, including the best crash test facility in india, emphasizing their capabilities in this field. Nano is an brilliant example of their engineering capabilities.

4. Tatas have identified and introduced new product segments in both passenger as well as commercial vehicles. Indica Diesel success is the reason that brought the Swift diesel. A Sumo pulled out an Innova, Xylo, etc. The examples are many. So no doubt on their overall marketing strategy and portfolio.

5. And also remember guys, the Indica made it to the UK as CITY ROVER (http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/intern...se-indica.html (Why MG Rover chose Indica ??)). So that proves that they are good to take on any other OEM.


Now coming to the topic of lean sales in passenger cars. By volume they are the number 3, but sadly their sales force is not doing their bit to pitch more during spikes season (festival seasons, year ends, etc.).

Their recent launches have fared poorly compared to others. But one interesting thing to note is, apart from Figo, i10, i20, etc. most top sellers (Maruti, hyundai, tata & others) are models launched more than a decade back. This shows that the indian market endorses tried and tested models rather than the hot new vehicles mostly (looking at mass market segment vehicles).

I own a Figo, and I am sure lot of people had radiator fan issues, rear suspension noise, uneven gaps in steering wheel nacelles, poorly finished door pulls, etc. Now saying these never means that the car is not good. But how good have we gauged this to the Tatas'. A niggle in one brand is a bog sin, but in another goes as just a little thingwe can adjust. Now thats a prejudiced statement from most.

This brings to one conclusion: The perception towards the TATA brand is what that is causing the rout in sales numbers and has nothing to do with anything else.
rajess_in is offline   (3) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 13th August 2011, 20:39   #95
rkg
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: bangalore
Posts: 1,041
Thanked: 543 Times
Default Re: TATA motors (excluding JLR) sales continue to drop

Quote:
Originally Posted by mohandas View Post

Can't digest your logic here. May Bosch/Delphi provide the component, but how this nullifies the engine technology.
CRDI: Common rail diesel injection

Here pump is the most important thing. that is why almost all the manufatcurers in the world source it either form Bosch/Delphi with the exception of VW (correct me if iam wrong) who has pump duse tech.

Here is link how Hyundai developed CRDI
Hyundai Teams Up With Detroit Diesel - NYTimes.com

Who Makes Hyundai/kia Diesel Engines? - Kia Forum
rkg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th August 2011, 20:54   #96
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Bhubaneswar
Posts: 1,762
Thanked: 532 Times
Default Re: Tata's lean run in passenger car sales!!

OT:
Actually most diesel injection pumps and the high pressure injectors are proprietary technologies and are provided by a handful of companies. Delphi and Bosch provide these to almost all major manufacturers.

As for the Hyundai U-engines, they are in house engines. Initially Hyundai had common rail engines from Detroit Diesel, but not any more.
julupani is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th August 2011, 22:07   #97
BHPian
 
kaks15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Delhi/NCR
Posts: 173
Thanked: 50 Times
Default Re: TATA motors (excluding JLR) sales continue to drop

Quote:
Originally Posted by mohandas View Post
Btw, Tata is the only brand, who does not believe on "eat your dogfood" mantra. Neither Ratan (Tata) nor his employees ( check out a TCS office near your house ) feel proud of owning their own brand.
You don't have to believe me on this, just do a google with keywords "Ratan Tata's Garage"
Basic Definition - A conglomerate is a combination of two or more corporations engaged in different businesses (often multi-industry), usually involving a parent company and several (or many) subsidiaries, that fall under one corporate structure.

Why used this definition - To highlight the 3 points that are used as a business excellence by all the long term survivors and multinational conglomerates:
1) The subsidiaries though under the same umbrella are kept competitive by allowing them to work in a free market implying if a subsidiary finds the rates/services of any other market firm is better than subsidiary of same company it is free to prefer the former over latter. Eg. If GE Healthcare division observes that crompton and greaves is providing them motors suited better for their purposes rather than GE Motors it can purchase from CG rather than going to GE Motors.
Any Tata group company can not impose upon TCS to buy anything, they can only sell as they are selling to other companies

2) A company should never force its employees to buy their own product, they can provide better offers but not impose upon them. an employee of a company has the right to spend whatever he/she earns as the remuneration without any constraints from the organisation

3) As many members of my family at some point have worked with Tata group a beautiful and sensible approach followed by the top big guns in the organisation is "use the product only if you are not their in that segment"

[b]Bottomline Mr Tata drives an Indigo and his garage also has other products like mercs etc as Telco was not in those segments at the time of his purchase[\B]

OT- Mr. Ratan Tata is leading a conglomerate whose 2/3rd profits roll back to Indian society.

Last edited by kaks15 : 13th August 2011 at 22:09.
kaks15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th August 2011, 10:43   #98
BHPian
 
anmol2k4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Gr. Noida Aka Gurrator Naveda
Posts: 193
Thanked: 5 Times
Default Re: TATA motors (excluding JLR) sales continue to drop

Quote:
Originally Posted by mohandas View Post
Btw, Tata is the only brand, who does not believe on "eat your dogfood" mantra. Neither Ratan (Tata) nor his employees ( check out a TCS office near your house ) feel proud of owning their own brand.
You don't have to believe me on this, just do a google with keywords "Ratan Tata's Garage"
So, Nano, Indica and Marina (Owned by Ratan Tata) are not "Tata Brand" cars ?
anmol2k4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th August 2011, 11:11   #99
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Bhubaneswar
Posts: 1,762
Thanked: 532 Times
Default Re: Tata's lean run in passenger car sales!!

OT:
As far as I know, Ratan Tata used an exqusitely maintained (as all his cars are) Tata Indigo, with some special accessories for a really long time. It's aa first gen Indigo, one the first few off the line. He uses a company Tata Safari/Indigo XL most of the time he's not in Mumbai. Now, Tata Motors has company Arias for all its top executives, and even for Mr. Tata. But Tata Motirs does not force Tata cars on its employees. But even Tata Motors VPs have personal Safaris only, though the newer gen Tata executives would shift to Arias.

There is a small snippet about him and his Indigo. At one time, he asked why he didnt see any good expensive cars in a company car park. A top executive replied, that they always saw him in his trusted Indigo, so why should they. He replied that, the Indigo is the car his company made and he should be driving in it. But if his top executives are not in Mercs, others will think that he doesnt pay them enough.

But in his personal collection, as a connoisseur of cars, he has a small collection of really exotic cars, like Ferraris and Maseratis. But he is never seen in them when he is official business. You will almost always see Mr. Tata rolling up in a non-descript Tata car, without so much as a an assistant with him.

Last edited by julupani : 14th August 2011 at 11:17.
julupani is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th August 2011, 13:56   #100
BHPian
 
rrsteer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: 144022
Posts: 940
Thanked: 893 Times
Default Re: TATA motors (excluding JLR) sales continue to drop

Quote:
Originally Posted by figo_mba View Post
Are we forgetting the Mahindras here.


And technical center in UK, is something they got during the JLR deal. Yes they are strong in some technologies. Also they mostly act as outsourcing hub. They are involved in baselining and shelving future technologies. And most of the work is outsourced to competent Indian companies.
Please just don't type for the sake of typing. At least when writing on objective, verifiable things don't let you assumptions take over you. The Tata Motors UK technical center dates much before they bought JLR.
Also please read relevant literature before describing the work they do.
rrsteer is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 14th August 2011, 14:19   #101
BHPian
 
mohandas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 266
Thanked: 27 Times
Default Re: Tata's lean run in passenger car sales!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by torquecurve View Post
I read that thread number of times but looks like you haven't. It clearly says that Mr Tata has a Indigo Marina to carry his DOG.

Quote:
Originally Posted by julupani View Post
OT:
There is a small snippet about him and his Indigo. At one time, he asked why he didnt see any good expensive cars in a company car park. A top executive replied, that they always saw him in his trusted Indigo, so why should they. He replied that, the Indigo is the car his company made and he should be driving in it. But if his top executives are not in Mercs, others will think that he doesnt pay them enough.

But in his personal collection, as a connoisseur of cars, he has a small collection of really exotic cars, like Ferraris and Maseratis. But he is never seen in them when he is official business. You will almost always see Mr. Tata rolling up in a non-descript Tata car, without so much as a an assistant with him.
Unfortunately this is untrue but it can be a bollywood Karan johar's soap masala. I have following points against your argument:
1. Please see my above point and the link. The indigo is modd-ed to carry his dog. He definitely takes his indigo out when he takes his dog to beach or to visit vet -doctors. Now, I am sure these can be called as his official business trips or not. However, when I saw him last year at Hyderabad in a official meeting with the CM, he was in a black Marc.

2. Few months ago there was a pic in TOI online website. It was showing some disgruntled TML workers destroying some Maruti swift cars owned by TML middle/senior managers. The pic explained me all. [I am trying to find the pic and I will update this post once I find it out]


Quote:
Originally Posted by anmol2k4 View Post
So, Nano, Indica and Marina (Owned by Ratan Tata) are not "Tata Brand" cars ?
Where did you get this info - that Ratan owns Nano, the FIRE CHARIOT ?
mohandas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th August 2011, 15:07   #102
BHPian
 
kaks15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Delhi/NCR
Posts: 173
Thanked: 50 Times
Default Re: Tata's lean run in passenger car sales!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by mohandas View Post
I read that thread number of times but looks like you haven't. It clearly says that Mr Tata has a Indigo Marina to carry his DOG.
Unfortunately this is untrue but it can be a bollywood Karan johar's soap masala. I have following points against your argument:
1. Please see my above point and the link. The indigo is modd-ed to carry his dog. He definitely takes his indigo out when he takes his dog to beach or to visit vet -doctors. Now, I am sure these can be called as his official business trips or not. However, when I saw him last year at Hyderabad in a official meeting with the CM, he was in a black Marc.
2. Few months ago there was a pic in TOI online website. It was showing some disgruntled TML workers destroying some Maruti swift cars owned by TML middle/senior managers. The pic explained me all. [I am trying to find the pic and I will update this post once I find it out]
Where did you get this info - that Ratan owns Nano, the FIRE CHARIOT ?
Kindly go through my post above Mr Mohandas. Thanks.
kaks15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th August 2011, 15:50   #103
BHPian
 
mohandas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 266
Thanked: 27 Times
Default Re: Tata's lean run in passenger car sales!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by kaks15 View Post
Kindly go through my post above Mr Mohandas. Thanks.
but before i start argue, you need same basic knowledge on "Transfer Pricing" on GAAP and non-GAAP accounting. Then only you can understand the flaw in your own logic. Get a crash course and then PM me ..we can start all over again
thanks
mohandas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th August 2011, 16:30   #104
Senior - BHPian
 
silverado's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Mumbai-Pune
Posts: 1,012
Thanked: 636 Times
Default Re: Tata's lean run in passenger car sales!!

Nano sales have been like a See-saw, diesel's introduction will surely spruce it up.

There has been no NANO V2, which might help getting more customers.

SUMO was IMO best SUV for almost 8-10 years since it was lauched and SUMO GRANDE failed miserably to replicate that sucess.

SUMO VICTA is only used by call center operators and maybe in rural areas, still the basic design is a flawed one with short wheelbase, huge overhangs.

Indica might not find liking with most private owners due to image beating it has taken ( Call center cab ).
silverado is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th August 2011, 17:00   #105
Zed
BHPian
 
Zed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Germany
Posts: 466
Thanked: 270 Times
Default Re: TATA motors (excluding JLR) sales continue to drop

Mahindra too are pretty good, but for the overall volume and variety of design, they are nowhere close to what Tata Motors ERC handles.


In terms of size - sure the M&M engineering organization is a lot smaller. But in terms of capability I would rate them very high. As an automotive org - M&M has been getting its basic right. Staying with their strengths ( Utility vehicles and tractors), connecting well with the needs of their customers etc ..and the R&Ds efforts have been aligning well with these strategic objectives.
Zed is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Is it normal for a car to lean on one side? vebmetal Technical Stuff 31 23rd May 2016 13:24
TATA Motors Passenger Vehicles sales show a decline for Aug 07, Exports Up dadu The Indian Car Scene 0 10th September 2007 11:48
Lean Manufacturing in Indian Automotive Industry amitpunjani The Indian Car Scene 10 21st August 2007 15:27
lean fuel mixture = hotter engine? why? techn0l0gist Technical Stuff 12 4th April 2006 10:29
Lean Burn Bullet500 amitoj Motorbikes 26 1st February 2006 17:39


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 12:53.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks