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Old 14th August 2011, 17:00   #106
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Default Re: Tata's lean run in passenger car sales!!

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Originally Posted by ajay_satpute View Post
My friend bought a brand new Swift diesel 2 months back and the defogger on his Swift went kaput. So much for Maruti reliability.
When did Maruti come out with a defogger for the old Swift Diesel? Damn, I missed this...

On a more serious note, I've read about how Tata has done such a splendid job, however, Im inclined to disagree. Most Tata customers buy it solely on price, at the first opportunity they upgrade. If the quality was that good, you would see more premium variants being sold, which is not the case, the Safari being the only exception.

However, I think Tata's forte lies in the non passenger car segment, and its moving in the right direction by focussing on the Ace & Winger variants.
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Old 14th August 2011, 17:23   #107
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Default Re: Tata's lean run in passenger car sales!!

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I read that thread number of times but looks like you haven't. It clearly says that Mr Tata has a Indigo Marina to carry his DOG.

Unfortunately this is untrue but it can be a bollywood Karan johar's soap masala. I have following points against your argument:
1. Please see my above point and the link. The indigo is modd-ed to carry his dog. He definitely takes his indigo out when he takes his dog to beach or to visit vet -doctors. Now, I am sure these can be called as his official business trips or not. However, when I saw him last year at Hyderabad in a official meeting with the CM, he was in a black Marc.

2. Few months ago there was a pic in TOI online website. It was showing some disgruntled TML workers destroying some Maruti swift cars owned by TML middle/senior managers. The pic explained me all. [I am trying to find the pic and I will update this post once I find it out]

Where did you get this info - that Ratan owns Nano, the FIRE CHARIOT ?
So you think MSL chairman drives in the SX4 or perhaps the Ford India CEO drives only in the Fiesta?
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Old 14th August 2011, 17:28   #108
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Default Re: Tata's lean run in passenger car sales!!

^^
yes, that's what I think and that's the fact. Osamu Suzuki owns a kizashi, GV and an SX4.
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Old 14th August 2011, 17:36   #109
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Default Re: TATA motors (excluding JLR) sales continue to drop

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YES. Very much their own. It's U -series I4 diesel engines that comes from Hyundai Kia Auto Group. This U-series has 3-pot 1L engine and 4-pot 1.4, 1.5 an d 1.6 engines.

"
Hyundai has most of its engine technology coming from Detriot Diesel, which is part of Daimler AG. All the way from the 3 pots than came in Accents to the current Vernas. In these days of globally integrated development it is not feasible ( even commercially non-viable) for car manufacturers to own every piece of the technology that goes in their cars .Calling these as Hyundai's very own is misnomer.
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Old 14th August 2011, 20:05   #110
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Default Re: Tata's lean run in passenger car sales!!

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Originally Posted by mohandas View Post


Where did you get this info - that Ratan owns Nano, the FIRE CHARIOT ?
Nano? A fire Chariot? Are Nanos the only car to have caught fire? Why do you hate Tata so much? Any personal reason? Were you wronged by them?
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Old 14th August 2011, 20:24   #111
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Default Re: Tata's lean run in passenger car sales!!

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Nano? A fire Chariot? Are Nanos the only car to have caught fire? Why do you hate Tata so much? Any personal reason? Were you wronged by them?
Well, what can you say. Its perception that's killing Tata.

When a Nano catches fire, its a Fire Chariot, while people have forgotten that even 458 Italia's have caught fire. If the Nano's a "chariot", the Italia is probably a "Fire Space Shuttle". Even the Toyota Prius has had one of biggest recalls ever, for their sticking throttle and ECU glitch, which actually caused fatalities.

But unfortunately, man is rarely a rational animal. Perception has killed a few brands, or at least put them in serious trouble for long time. Land Rover had a very bad 90s, coming out of it only when they gave us the unbeleivable 3rd gen Range Rover in early 2000s. Lancia, which has made some of the best cars ever, almost died after the Lancia Beta debacle. Now the historic century old brand, which has a strong racing background and is a 10 time World Rally Champion, is selling rebodied FIAT family cars.

Tata has to tackle the perception problem seriously.
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Old 14th August 2011, 21:45   #112
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Default Re: Tata's lean run in passenger car sales!!

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but before i start argue, you need same basic knowledge on "Transfer Pricing" on GAAP and non-GAAP accounting. Then only you can understand the flaw in your own logic. Get a crash course and then PM me ..we can start all over again
thanks
"It is always better to ask then to make an assumption"
Kindly go ahead , I have the basic knowledge and would surely appreciate the correction in my logic. Maybe we can mutually educate each other about how organisations work.
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Old 15th August 2011, 06:29   #113
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Default Re: Tata's lean run in passenger car sales!!

@ Mohandas,

I do not know where you derive your logic from but are you trying to say that Tata motors will see a surge in sales once Mr. Ratan Tata decides to use a Tata vehicle to fulfill needs that you deem to be fit!! I am sure customers have far greater priorities before deciding a car rather than finding out the vehicles a motor company's CEO does and does not drive.

You dont expect YK Hamied to consume every medicine Cipla makes just because he runs the company, or do you?!! And if this flawed logic of yours makes any sense at all, explain how despite the fact that Osamu Suzuki having a kizashi of his own has not stopped the car from becoming a global sales disaster?!!

Even if you hate a certain brand there's no harm in reassessing your point rather than providing a verbal backlash against anyone who questions it.

Last edited by shortbread : 15th August 2011 at 06:33.
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Old 16th August 2011, 00:57   #114
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Default Re: TATA motors (excluding JLR) sales continue to drop

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Shifting R&D to Europe would be pointless. And I am sure, JLR R&D would be scratching their heads if you ask them to give us the next Indica, a car which costs less than 6thousand pounds. Just like Tata's ERC will make a complete hash of it, if they end up doing the next Range Rover. Both the R&D centres have their own niches and will do best if they stick to it.
The Range Rover team could design the next Indica in their tea break. It's not hard to design cheap car's. Nearly all major car companies started that way. Land Rover's heritage includes the Austin 7, Mini and metro. Indeed the Chinese are already outsourcing car design to the west, look at both SAIC and Cherry.

Suzuki and Nissan decontent cars for India. Why doesn't TATA design a car for the West, sell it in the West and then decontent it? The people to design a car for Europe/ America/ Japan etc already work in the UK for TATA. Time to outsource the work. The reward for TATA and India will be more car making and exports....
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Old 16th August 2011, 03:22   #115
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Default Re: Tata's lean run in passenger car sales!!

Tata Motors is one highly capable company which deserves great respect.

Its 5th largest commercial vehicle manufacturer in the world. the commercial vehicles are most sought after in 100s of countries outside india too.

i agree that the passenger vehicle expertise was on the weaker side earlier but now with latest acquisitions like Jaguar and Land rover they have gained the right technology.

some people here are very biased and unnecessarily bashing tata without knowing facts about the company and their achievements. i would simply laugh at those guys. they hate their home country manufacturers and love koreans and other manufacturers and praise them and overlook all the shortcomings in those cars.

tata sells very well in Turkey, Italy, SA, kenya, bangladesh, korea, brazil and a lot of other countries. its expanding like anything with acquisitions and partnerships.

tata when bought out JAguar and LAndrover showcased its power to the whole world that it can kickass any other competitor whatsoever.

Sumos and Victas are so much abused and are driven so rough in extreme terrains and still they do good. they are most VFM products.
korean cars will tear apart if driven that way.

indica which is another VFM is extensively used as a taxi due to its low cost and lacs of kms it does in just a price of 3.5 lac rs.

if Indica wouldnt have been their imagine the lacs of employees driving in maruti OMNI


When tata launched a car with inner size of ambasador, outer of zen and price or maruti 800 it was indica.

maruti and other manufacturers the very next day decreased the prices of their cars, till then they enjoyed looting us.

My UK colleague who is quite a senior always praises TATA for nano and having guts to takeover jaguar and landrover and here we are bashing tata. what an irony.

Come on guys if we support our home country manufacturers including M&M without being biased we will definitely see India shining.

abhi to Gulami chod do yaar.
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Old 16th August 2011, 07:15   #116
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Default Re: TATA motors (excluding JLR) sales continue to drop

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The Range Rover team could design the next Indica in their tea break. It's not hard to design cheap car's. Nearly all major car companies started that way. Land Rover's heritage includes the Austin 7, Mini and metro. Indeed the Chinese are already outsourcing car design to the west, look at both SAIC and Cherry.

Suzuki and Nissan decontent cars for India. Why doesn't TATA design a car for the West, sell it in the West and then decontent it? The people to design a car for Europe/ America/ Japan etc already work in the UK for TATA. Time to outsource the work. The reward for TATA and India will be more car making and exports....
If that was the case, what's stopping all the big manufacturers from making massive bucks by coming into the Indian market and kicking Tata's and Maruti's a**. As far as I know, the Indian market is a very hot one

If designing a 6grand car took a tea break, I am sure the 1500pound Nano should not take more than a lunch break. I am surprised why the world is raving about the Nano then??? Just out of pity for Tata may be??? And if they took as long as a day, may be they can come up with a 10thousand pound Ferrari beater.

And if India was such a crappy place to design cars, why does every major auto-firm, let alone other engineering companies, have some level of design facilities out here.

And let's leave the Chineses Automobile firms out of this. I have yet to see a truly original design come out of their auto industry.

Last edited by julupani : 16th August 2011 at 07:25.
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Old 16th August 2011, 07:27   #117
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Default Re: TATA motors (excluding JLR) sales continue to drop

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Originally Posted by Tstag View Post
The Range Rover team could design the next Indica in their tea break. It's not hard to design cheap car's.
  • It would require more sweat and better R&D to know whats the best and still produce something aimed at the mass market when keeping costing in picture.
  • Am sure someone involved in R&D will be able to educate us better. Even Bugatti Engineers won't be able to bring out a Nano.
  • What ever you say Tata has done a great job with Nano. Their problem lies not in R&D but non confirmation to stipulated production quality.
  • This is a curse of most of the manufacturing units based soley on Indian customer base coz we are willing to compromise. Those units that concentrate on exports have matured faster.

Sadly Tata has appeared in UK , Africa etc but they never were serious abt the market. Rover episode must be the biggest joke in the history of Automotive launches.
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Old 16th August 2011, 12:08   #118
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Default Re: Tata's lean run in passenger car sales!!

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but before i start argue, you need same basic knowledge on "Transfer Pricing" on GAAP and non-GAAP accounting. Then only you can understand the flaw in your own logic. Get a crash course and then PM me ..we can start all over again
thanks
Excuse me but what understanding of a Generally Accepted Accounting Principles ( GAAP) whether US or Indian or EU IRFS&IAS have to do with the business strategy ?

AFAIK GAAP will help you understand only balance sheets , P&L accounts and Cash flow statements but will never tell you anything about business decisions or strategy.

As a prudent strategy no company forces one Business unit to be customer of another.I work in Samsung , Samsung electronics is 120 billion $ but semiconductor BU is free to sell components to Apple and similarly Mobile divison is free to buy processors from TI,nVidea , Qualcomm etc. same goes for any other component,

TCS is a different company from Tata-Motors the only thing common between them is Tata brand for which they pay 1% Royalty to Tata Sons.
While more then 70% of TCS is still owned by Tata Sons. Tata Sons have very small shareholding in TML ( near to 24%) and total holdings of various Tata trusts is close to 34.84%.

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Old 16th August 2011, 12:34   #119
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Default Re: Tata's lean run in passenger car sales!!

Along with the thanks option, there should also be an option for 'rubbish'. Or how else do you stop comments like 'cheap cars can be designed in a tea break' & 'first take a crash course in GAAP and then come to me'.
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Old 16th August 2011, 13:01   #120
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Default Re: Tata's lean run in passenger car sales!!

One observation about Tata cars -
Most of my friends who are owners of Tata cars (Indica/Indigo) swear never to buy a Tata car again, the primary reasons being poor reliability, small niggling issues, and fast ageing.
I know Tata has improved a lot over the years. But sadly, that's the image the aam junta has in mind about Tata cars.
Also, the Nano with its strange sounding engine and all those news about fire et all have not helped Tata's image at all.
I see an uphill task for Tata going ahead...they somehow need to change their image and perception. Otherwise, good products from TML will not get the deserved success
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