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Old 7th August 2011, 17:10   #61
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Default Re: The New 2011 Audi A6. EDIT : Launch on 3rd August, 2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by S350L-E240 View Post
PlatzdaTurbo,

Not doubting the fact that the A6 is an awesome car, but trust me keeping the car aside do think of it a little practically considering these cars sell at similar prices across the world and I assume it's only due to the new Engine norms that this car is a little expensive.

If you think of the standard A6 3.0 TDI, it maybe loaded but one thing is there are hardly any allotments for standard car most come with at least 2 packages (this may vary with regions but then buying this car basic makes no sense as you will lose a lot of things which make the experience better, and the fact that you will not even be able to get a larger screen upfront without the MMI touch, and the fact that you will not be able to add rear screens which are optional even after the additional multimedia package which only includes preparation.

And without the LED lights trust me it just does not look dynamic enough, but even if you think of deleting the LED lights, there is a difference of 6.2 Lac INR in the on road price and it's not like the 530d is inferior, it may lack a few things here and there but you gain a lot standard and its only due to BMW assembling engines and getting lower CKD rates. And some of the gains on the 530d are very unique and some very useful,

Here's the gains assuming you take all packages on A6 besides LED

1. HUD (This is a cool feature to have esp. now with navigation)
2. Rear Screen Entertainment, and they are the best screen integration in all 3.
3. Navigation System ( some may say it's not that useful but so are a lot other things)
4. Comfort Key (Only for the ignition)

Losses are:

1. Adaptive Air Suspension with Ride height, (This is a huge + for A6 to raise the car)
2. Quattro, (but then a lot will prefer RWD, subjective so no point in debating)

Make no mistake A6 is brilliant not doubting that at all but so is the BMW 530d, I am only saying the car has a very good competition and Audi India should have figured a way to get the engines etc. assembled locally as the entire price rise is only due to that and nothing else. And I am told by the dealer that will happen in coming months,

Just for reference here are OTR prices for Audi A6 3.0 TDI & BMW 530d

Audi A6 (Incl LED) - 60,98,000 INR (No discounts being a new product)
BMW 530d - 52,48,000 INR (Incl of 2.0 Lac discount)
Mercedes-Benz E350 CDI Avantgarde 55,34,000 INR (Incl 2.0 Lac discount)

Regards,
A friend of mine bought the 525d and he got a massive discount of 3.5lacs. Actual price of the car is 48 on road delhi excluding BSI package.
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Old 7th August 2011, 23:11   #62
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Default Re: The New 2011 Audi A6. EDIT : Launch on 3rd August, 2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by S350L-E240 View Post

Here's the gains assuming you take all packages on A6 besides LED

1. HUD (This is a cool feature to have esp. now with navigation)
2. Rear Screen Entertainment, and they are the best screen integration in all 3.
3. Navigation System ( some may say it's not that useful but so are a lot other things)
4. Comfort Key (Only for the ignition)

Losses are:

1. Adaptive Air Suspension with Ride height, (This is a huge + for A6 to raise the car)
2. Quattro, (but then a lot will prefer RWD, subjective so no point in debating)

Make no mistake A6 is brilliant not doubting that at all but so is the BMW 530d, I am only saying the car has a very good competition and Audi India should have figured a way to get the engines etc. assembled locally as the entire price rise is only due to that and nothing else. And I am told by the dealer that will happen in coming months,

Just for reference here are OTR prices for Audi A6 3.0 TDI & BMW 530d

Audi A6 (Incl LED) - 60,98,000 INR (No discounts being a new product)
BMW 530d - 52,48,000 INR (Incl of 2.0 Lac discount)
Mercedes-Benz E350 CDI Avantgarde 55,34,000 INR (Incl 2.0 Lac discount)

Regards,
Are the prices of the A6 that much more expensive than the competition?
Since we are in the market, I saw the E Class and the A6, and the difference in prices for the base trim in both models came to around 4L without any discounts (which I was told was only for the monsoon season by the Mercedes dealership).
If you add the Bose music system, comfort key, and WCI package, the prices are more or less similar to each other, and the Audi seems like better VFM here. I am avoiding the LED lights, as at nearly 3L, I doubt it would find many takers.
Now, my pros and cons list are like this:
Audi - Pros: Better interiors, better design, better engine, better FE (not that it matters much in this segment), Air suspension, and Quattro
Audi - Cons: Not as much safety kit as Mercedes, not the best rear seats.

As for the 530d, no doubt it is a brilliant car, but once again, according to ACI (not interested in buying the F10, so didn't bother with the prices and stuff), they again come for similar prices - discounting the LED lights, and not taking into account the discounts as in a few months all the cars will be worth the same in terms of pricing after discounts - the pros and cons are like this:
Audi Pros - Better interiors and design (the F10 though very subtle, doesn't seem to look very impressive either. I love subtle designs such as the old A8, but this just doesn't excite me at all!), similar level of kit (the BMW has rear entertainment screens, but I doubt how much that would be used. The Audi on the other hand has the Bose system, something more useful. Also, the Audi has Quattro and an air suspension. However, the BMW has the HUD and navigation system). Also, the A6 has reportedly better body control than the 5 series according to ACI, though the 530D has a better steering.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PlatzdaTurbo View Post
Be rest assured your opinion will remain the same when you see it in flesh. The interiors are tastefully done with quality and overall feel of the cabin being absolutely sumptuous.
That apart, WHATTT an engine for the top end diesel . Just went through a comparo of the 3.0tdi vs 530d vs 350 cdi. Ratings remain more or less the same with a 5bhp increase to 245bhp and identical torque -500NM. That makes this engine 40NM short on maximum torque compared to the Propeller and the Star and equal on horses to the BMW and much more than the Mercedes. However, inspite of sporting AWD, it has identical weight to the 530d ,viz. 1720kgs and the torque kicks in earlier compared to the Beemer. ( 1400rpm vs the beemer's 1750)
This has got to be an absolute road burner with 0-100 tested at 6.1secs ! My lighter A4 with the same 3.0 TDI engine and 1680kgs is 6.2secs to the ton. Apparently though, the new 7-speed DSG seems to be playing spoil sport as its jerky on the downshifts ( my 6-speed has no such issues) so am waiting to see how it fares in , 'in-gear acceleration' vis-a-vis the BMW's 8-speed. Should be fun
True, but as this will be a 99% chauffeur driven car, we are looking at the A6 2.0 TDi. No point spending 9L extra for a more powerful engine and a Quattro system that will never be used. Heck, I could get myself a new car in that much!
The main thing that we are looking for is rear seat comfort (E Class wins), interior and exterior design (A6), ride quality (A6), and exclusivity (A6). This is something most buyers do consider as well. However, the build quality of the Merc feels superior, even though the A6 is equally strong, if not stronger. To be very honest, the Merc is still quite tempting simply due to the rear seat design which was very comfortable, but the Audi is something Dad would like as he is a big fan of the brand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by S350L-E240 View Post
lamborghini,

Traditionally, the driving experience has always done the same – and there’s no change with this new version. The A6 isn’t quite as comfy as an E-Class or quite as sporty as a 5-Series. It falls between the two, but it still strikes a neat balance.

It doesn’t feel quite as good an all-rounder as the 5-Series though. No matter which Drive Select mode you choose, the steering feels completely removed from the action.

But it’s still magnificent at covering long distances with ease. And the ace up the Audi’s sleeve is four-wheel drive. Featuring the RS5’s crown-gear centre differential and torque vectoring, there’s always plenty of traction and given the UK’s recent harsh winters will be reason enough for many buyers to make a purchase.

Has the A6 finally thrown a sucker punch at the 5-Series? Well, it’s genuinely good looking, extremely efficient, spacious and good to drive. It’s also remarkably well equipped and well made. If driver involvement is a priority then the 5-Series still takes it.

The two are matched on performance and economy, although the BMW is still the better of the two to drive. But, the gap is much narrower than before.


Full Auto Express review here

Another point, very soon the 530d gets an upgrade to 258 bhp and 560 Nm of torque, the engine is currently on the X3 Xdrive30d, which will add to some more boost, and also bring down the fuel consumption and reduce carbon emissions, not that the 530d had any extra need for performance but with BMW pushing it hard not just for power but also efficiency , it's the upper end of the range where 530d is hard to ignore.

But this sure will be interesting, would be nice to have a complete comparison and owners reports soon as this is as close as it gets in the car market, some may choose the Audi, some BMW, and some Mercedes-Benz, but in a lot of ways all these cars are the finest and each only pushes the other to do better, and in my opinion for now BMW does everything better in India, Price included.

Regards,
Hey S350,
great to see your reply!
I agree with you about the design bit, but after coming from the E60 525d, the new F10 just seems to lack the aggressive character in terms of design and handling (according to reviews). While I love subtle looking cars such as the W140 and the previous gen Audi A8, the F10 just doesn't impress me as much. In fact, I find that it looks a bit awkward from some angles, and a little too subtle for a car of its class.
Also, I have spoken about the comparo and the likes elsewhere in this post. Hope to see your inputs on that too!

About the driving bit, I have heard on this forum and outside too, that the new 5 series isn't as much fun to drive. If the latest ACI review is anything to go by, the A6 seems to have better poise and grip, though the steering is missing in feel.
Also, the A6 is supposed to have the best ride quality combination amongst the BMW and the Merc. If this is the case, it does make a very strong case for itself, with an equally powerful engine and the likes. There is no denying that the 530D does everything quite well, and nothing poorly. However, there are very little aspects in which it is class leading. This 'jack of all trades' nature of the 5 Series seems to have been one of the reasons for its spectacular success in the marketplace.

However, at the end of the day, for the points mentioned in this thread (lack of exclusivity, not as much character, not the most comfortable to be driven in, etc.) it is out of our list. Especially when we have the E60 parked in our garage, a car which I thoroughly enjoy driving, and a car which made me want to buy a BMW for myself a few years down the line. However, the way BMW is losing it's performance and handling edge with each new model, coupled with their now boring design, it seems as though the only BMW I would want to get myself is the ones who's names start with a 'M'.
And until I can afford one, I don't see myself driving my very own BMW.
The battle rages on between the E250 and the A6 2.0. The E250 makes more sense given our requirements, but the A6 is what the heart wants, forcing us to look at the A6 a little more closely. After all, if it is your passion, you should indulge in it with your heart. For everything else, there is always the head!
Hope this makes sense!

Last edited by lamborghini : 7th August 2011 at 23:15.
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Old 8th August 2011, 01:12   #63
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Default Re: The New 2011 Audi A6. EDIT : Launch on 3rd August, 2011

lamborghini,

Nice post, and here's a little more input from my side, some are only my opinions so I maybe wrong but will be as precise as possible,

1. I saw the ACI review, and honestly without doubting them I seriously felt they made it sound like the newest is the best. (Once again I am only posting my opinion and what I felt on their review as some of the basics were missed upon)

Clearing the first debate on price, yes trust me the A6 works out quite expensive at least in the 3.0 TDI variant, as you can see from the exact OTR prices I have posted, while those are for Ahmedabad, I am quite sure other cities are similar with some being higher or lower but ratio will remain the same.

Also for further debate I will keep the F10 out as I do understand it is not in the contention for you, but before I get that thing out, believe me press may say it's not as sharp as the E60, but most of it is due to the steering and honestly that will happen to all cars due to emission norms etc. where all steerings are now going electric, also it seems its been a public demand across the world and as a large scale car maker they will have to satisfy the majority of the crowd a lot more? A6 too I believe has the electric steering, but a lot of reviews I have read abroad claim the 5 is a little sharper than A6 but there are some who say equal etc. which is why it's hard to go by reviews but most claim out of E / A6 and 5 the 5 is still sharper though the gap has reduced a lot.

And lastly the 530d has adaptive suspension and throttle which can be in Normal / Sport and Sport +, and believe me driving in Sport or Sport + is an absolute wonder at least for me, and my daily drive includes a mix of 530d / 520d and Jetta 1.9TDI DSG.

Now sticking to A6 2.0 TDI and E250 CDI, I am pretty sure the 2.0 TDI models are front wheel driven, and that itself would take the A6 out of my list as the E-Class will be RWD and I always have looked at RWD as a must have for a premium car. But considering you will be chauffeured in this 99% of the time again it will not matter.

Also you said Audi's Engine is better? Any idea why? I mean the 2.2L Block used in the E250 CDI is pretty good with the amount of torque it offers? I am unaware of this so any detailed specifications would be nice for why do you think the Audi is a better engine? On paper the E-Class looks a lot better and faster than the A6 2.0 TDI in the 250 variant.

Ultimately when it comes to the base variants yes there is little that differences these cars and if your heart is set on the A6, I think A6 it should be and welcome to a wonderful new car! But if the head is still fighting, then perhaps have a one on one back to back TD of both the cars and see where you lean more?

I will ask the Audi dealer to let me have the car for 2-3 days and then I should be in a better position to talk more of the car as I still have not had a TD in one.

One last thing, do not buy it assuming it will be exclusive, trust me all these 3 car makers are just mass market premium car makers and while the Audi may be seen less on the streets now they are trying equally hard to be #1 in India, and only a matter of time when all will be seen in equal numbers and all will just out do each other with new models and the race will go on.

Regards,
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Old 8th August 2011, 09:59   #64
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Default Re: The New 2011 Audi A6. EDIT : Launch on 3rd August, 2011

@ S350l-E240

The pros and cons list was enlightening. Thanks for that
Somehow, through your response it seemed like you are in some way maybe, defending (??) the 530d against the newer A6, even if u did not mean to sound that way.
Would not be necessary as i personally LOVE the 530d for its engine and performance. I just said that, for people having issues with the very expensive options list of the A6, it would come pretty loaded even without all those added packages and will help keeping the price in check.
Am in no way stating 1 is superior to the other. Both have their sets of brownie points over the other.
My personal favorite of course is none of these ! Audi A4 3.0 TDi is it !
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Old 8th August 2011, 11:22   #65
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Default Re: The New 2011 Audi A6. EDIT : Launch on 3rd August, 2011

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Originally Posted by PlatzdaTurbo View Post
My personal favorite of course is none of these ! Audi A4 3.0 TDi is it !
what is the OTR difference between your favorite's current tag, 525d and 530d ( considering all discounts etc)
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Old 8th August 2011, 11:28   #66
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Default Re: The New 2011 Audi A6. EDIT : Launch on 3rd August, 2011

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Originally Posted by dipen View Post
what is the OTR difference between your favorite's current tag, 525d and 530d ( considering all discounts etc)

Dont know how much the 525 is OTR but between mine and the 530d (was in serious consideration for my garage until we came across what we have now), the difference OTR Mumbai comes to around 6.5 lakhs.
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Old 8th August 2011, 14:40   #67
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Default Re: The New 2011 Audi A6. EDIT : Launch on 3rd August, 2011

PlatzdaTurbo,

lol, Sorry yes I do love the F10, and I may sound like someone defending it but in real terms I am only doing it as in the family we were and still are actively considering the A6 3.0 TDI, I lost all my bias when I left Mercedes-Benz where my loyalty was always, but trust me if you take just the basic A6 3.0TDI and compare it to the 530d then you will save some money and the price comes down to 55.5 OTR but that is still 3 lac more and what I am trying to say is then the car gets quite basic and the 530d still is highly loaded with

HUD,
Navigation,
Large iDrive screen as the A6 without MMI touch gets a smaller screen and reduced functions,
DVD Changer,
Rear Seat Entertainment,
Rear View camera,
Electrically adjustable steering wheel column,

Compared to that the A6 has the Quattro which some love and some would still prefer the RWD setup of the BMW? And the Air Suspension, which has ride height but the 530d does offer drive dynamic setting where you can choose the 3 modes already mentioned.

Also trust me there are pretty much no allotments for basic A6 3.0 TDI's and why choose a basic car when others offer a similar car for lesser or same price? (BMW & Mercedes)

And trust me I might sound like someone defending the 530d but that is only because it offers so much at wonderful price, and for me I am not even remotely fond of the E-Class which is why we were looking at the A6 3.0TDI and opinions I have put up are from a general buyer's point and nothing to do with me owning the 530d. And I still think Audi needs to be more price friendly and to skip on basics like electrical steering column is a great mistake which needs correction, even the dealer here is not happy about them not keeping that and Rear Seat Entertainment as standard which E350 and BMW 530d do offer as standard.

Dipen 525d in Ahmedabad OTR is 46.64 and they give 2.5 Lac off so will work to exactly 44.24 and the A6 2.0 TDI fully loaded here is 49.69 INR OTR.

Regards,
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Old 8th August 2011, 17:54   #68
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Default Re: The New 2011 Audi A6. EDIT : Launch on 3rd August, 2011

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Originally Posted by S350L-E240 View Post
PlatzdaTurbo,



HUD, - Good feature. Should have been offered on the A6 top end atleast.
Navigation, - Not yet available off MMI. Just a matter of time. A few more months.
Large iDrive screen as the A6 without MMI touch gets a smaller screen and reduced functions, - Larger screen YES. Question is- Does the A6 come WITHOUT MMI High in the first place ? If yes, that is quite surprising.
DVD Changer, - has GOT to be standard. Its standard in mine.
Rear Seat Entertainment, - Not on A6 ??? Again ,present in mine.
Rear View camera, - the 3 litre petrol and diesel variants SHOULD ideally have it as standard. For pete's sake even the top end Verna has it
Electrically adjustable steering wheel column, - Glaring omission.
Have responded above in bold.
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Old 8th August 2011, 19:25   #69
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Default Re: The New 2011 Audi A6. EDIT : Launch on 3rd August, 2011

PlatzdaTurbo,

None of the Audi A6 models have the MMI High (now called MMI Touch) as standard, its a part of the WCI Package which is for 2,75,000.

DVD Changer is also not standard for which again you need the WCI Package

Rear Seat Entertainment again is not standard and you need the WEU Package which is for 1,26,800 and only includes the preparation for the same and the actual screens you have to get them from the Audi dealer who will install them.

Rear View camera again forms a part of the WCI Package and is not standard on any models.

That's the only reason why our entire enthusiasm went down, the car is just too expensive considering cars from it's own class with more features cost a lot less but am still waiting to TD it.

I think its a matter of time and once they begin engine and transmission assembly locally this price will come down a lot as currently Audi is in 30% Tax bracket and BMW / Mercedes is in 10% bracket, but its something Audi should have taken care of if BMW and Mercedes could do it so fast.

Regards,

P.S not trying to go off topic but does your A4 3.0 TDI also have the ventilated seats? It's one thing I seriously miss on cars in India.
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Old 8th August 2011, 22:49   #70
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Default Re: The New 2011 Audi A6. EDIT : Launch on 3rd August, 2011

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Originally Posted by S350L-E240 View Post
1. I saw the ACI review, and honestly without doubting them I seriously felt they made it sound like the newest is the best.
+ 1 to that. Offlate in some of their shootout's they have been a bit inconsistent.
Getting back to the A6, what happened to the 2.7tdi engine which was offered in the previous A6, would that be launched later or has that engine been discontinued?
Came across this - Mercedes E220 CDI Spotted In Pune | MotorBeam - Indian Car Bike News & Reviews . Is this really true? I wish Merc offers the E class with the big logo in the front, it would greatly enhance its appeal!
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Old 8th August 2011, 23:45   #71
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Default Re: The New 2011 Audi A6. EDIT : Launch on 3rd August, 2011

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Originally Posted by S350L-E240 View Post
PlatzdaTurbo,

None of the Audi A6 models have the MMI High (now called MMI Touch) as standard, its a part of the WCI Package which is for 2,75,000.

DVD Changer is also not standard for which again you need the WCI Package

Rear Seat Entertainment again is not standard and you need the WEU Package which is for 1,26,800 and only includes the preparation for the same and the actual screens you have to get them from the Audi dealer who will install them.

Rear View camera again forms a part of the WCI Package and is not standard on any models.
When you think about it, how many cars do you think will sell without the WCI package? Lets look at the A4, I've seen probably 2 in Mumbai without the package. I guess we can just count that in the price because no one will buy the car without it.
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Old 9th August 2011, 13:08   #72
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Default Re: The New 2011 Audi A6. EDIT : Launch on 3rd August, 2011

But akshay the wci package is only 1,08,000 more hence value for money....
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Old 9th August 2011, 16:24   #73
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But akshay the wci package is only 1,08,000 more hence value for money....
But the same way a person spending 30+ is able to spend 1.1 more I think a person paying 50+ would not mind 2.7 for a few extra goodies.
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Old 9th August 2011, 16:32   #74
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Default Re: The New 2011 Audi A6. EDIT : Launch on 3rd August, 2011

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Originally Posted by PlatzdaTurbo View Post
Dude, i kind of ......HAVE the car in my garage RIGHT NOW and it has been so for 1.5 years ?? Now i am slow but not THAT slow to not realize how many ratios does my car have, in a span of more than a year dont you think ???
It is a 6-speed DSG.
If you are looking at Audi India's page and telling me, well the 2011 versions started coming with the 7-speed. 2010 had 6-speed
It would really suck if you suddenly discovered a seventh ratio in your car after all this while
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Old 9th August 2011, 17:19   #75
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Default Re: The New 2011 Audi A6. EDIT : Launch on 3rd August, 2011

"German luxury car maker Audi today launched its executive class sedan Audi A6 in the city at a price of above Rs 38,37,000 (ex-showroom Hyderabad).
The launch of the new Audi A6 is in line with our top down strategy for India. Audi A6 is a perfect blend between advanced technology the new Audi A6 L and design features of the new Audi A7 Sportback," he said.
With technical innovations like lightweight technology, adaptive air suspension, LED headlamps, Audi drive select, and start-stop system with energy recovery, the new Audi A6 will redefine the executive class luxury automobiles, he added.
"I am confident that the launch of the new A6 will set new benchmarks in the segment and further strengthen our foothold in the region," Sanghvi said.
Audi A6 launched in Hyderabad - The Economic Times
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