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Old 5th July 2011, 11:38   #16
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Default Re: 2011 Tata Indica Vista face-lift Caught Testing

Welcome the bright yellow colourt, brings back memories of the Indica sport, but can't just digest the Manza front end, c'mon one has to differentiate between the two vehicles and the rear plastic cladding though good in intention looks tacky to say the least.
The persitence with the centrally mounted instrumentation cluster is a disappointment and hope they somehow plonk in the 90BHP MJD!!!!
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Old 5th July 2011, 11:51   #17
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Default Re: 2011 Tata Indica Vista face-lift Caught Testing

Current version of Vista already has twin barrel headlamps. And as per my opinion current headlamps looks much better than Manza setup.

What they need to do to improve sales...
1) Take some cues from Vista Sports concept
2) Migrate to Manza dashboard
3) Remove Indica from name

with these three changes Vista will do great numbers. But looking at the scoop I am totally disappointed. It is just eyewash job they are doing. Not adding much. Rear bears some plasticy thing to distiguish it from regular Indica.
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Old 5th July 2011, 12:28   #18
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Default Re: 2011 Tata Indica Vista face-lift Caught Testing

Vista's current front is good in itself. I wonder why change it? Maybe standardisation will cut costs (ala Toyota Liva/Eitos). I can't help but comment that no one takes digs at Toyota/GM Spark for putting in an horrendous central speedo/rpm set up and we always end up commenting Tata about it. I wonder why???
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Old 5th July 2011, 14:01   #19
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Default Re: 2011 Tata Indica Vista face-lift Caught Testing

The looks of the existing headlamps would have been accentuated and the vehicle would have been a stunner if that upper chrome lip was concave instead of convex. They somehow masked it in the Vista sport (auto expo vehicle) and that vehicle looked good. The older Indica with a straight lip looks even better than the convex lip of today.

This stupid design theme of convex upper lips was actually propounded by Ford with their 'New Edge' theme. The older 'Ka' primarily for western customers is a good example. Our market has to mature a lot more to accept such design schemes.

'Market maturity' and 'perceptions' definitely has to be looked at before embarking on designs. I still feel it would be a great idea to spend money and change the 'dies' of the bonnet lid and rework the design so that the car looks really different and sells at least a couple of thousands more.

Somebody pls tell them that there is life beyond 'Smiley Grille' and 'Christmas Tree' lamps
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Old 5th July 2011, 14:04   #20
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Default Re: 2011 Tata Indica Vista face-lift Caught Testing

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Originally Posted by SAE40 in veins View Post
The looks of the existing headlamps would have been accentuated and the vehicle would have been a stunner if that upper chrome lip was concave instead of convex. They somehow masked it in the Vista sport (auto expo vehicle) and that vehicle looked good. The older Indica with a straight lip looks even better than the convex lip of today.

This stupid design theme of convex upper lips was actually propounded by Ford with their 'New Edge' theme. The older 'Ka' primarily for western customers is a good example. Our market has to mature a lot more to accept such design schemes.

'Market maturity' and 'perceptions' definitely has to be looked at before embarking on designs. I still feel it would be a great idea to spend money and change the 'dies' of the bonnet lid and rework the design so that the car looks really different and sells at least a couple of thousands more.

Somebody pls tell them that there is life beyond 'Smiley Grille' and 'Christmas Tree' lamps
You are on the spot. Concave upper lip will look really good on Vista. We have already seen it Concept S. I always dream of this aftermarket lip for my Vista.
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Old 5th July 2011, 15:49   #21
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Default Re: 2011 Tata Indica Vista face-lift Caught Testing

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Originally Posted by shortbread View Post
@ AyAn,

Compared to the regular Manza that overhang is incredibly short even at that angle, I believe thats definitely the CS version.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CRtorquefan View Post
Yes your thought seems to be pointing in the right direction as I've also noticed the following changes while carefully watching the second photograph;
-Shortened Rear bumper with Small rear overhang behind the bootlid.
-Bootlid lip spoiler(as pointed out by sid).
I'd still maintain that its a regular Manza and not a CS.Not even a single panel seems to have changed. Besides launching a Manza CS now will literally kill the regular Manza. They might launch it when the Manza is grows relatively long in the tooth,like they did it with the Indigo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SAE40 in veins View Post

'Market maturity' and 'perceptions' definitely has to be looked at before embarking on designs. I still feel it would be a great idea to spend money and change the 'dies' of the bonnet lid and rework the design so that the car looks really different and sells at least a couple of thousands more.

Somebody pls tell them that there is life beyond 'Smiley Grille' and 'Christmas Tree' lamps
Though I agree that the grille shape you've mentioned would enhance the looks of the Vista,I don't think the absence of which is anywhere related to 'Market maturity' and 'perceptions'. I mean its their signature style and they'd like to stick to it.And its just a grille,not something radically different. Why won't it get accepted here?

There are cars (Punto,Linea,Beat,Fluence) with more radical front ends out there and they have been received quite well by the crowd.
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Old 5th July 2011, 17:17   #22
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Default Re: 2011 Tata Indica Vista face-lift Caught Testing

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Originally Posted by AyAn! View Post

Though I agree that the grille shape you've mentioned would enhance the looks of the Vista,I don't think the absence of which is anywhere related to 'Market maturity' and 'perceptions'. I mean its their signature style and they'd like to stick to it.And its just a grille,not something radically different. Why won't it get accepted here?

There are cars (Punto,Linea,Beat,Fluence) with more radical front ends out there and they have been received quite well by the crowd.
Why not alter something when it can make your product look better and could result in better sales. Should company be so adamant ?

Thats exactly what FIAT did; to break from regular mould and come up with better front ends; and hence we see the results.
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Old 5th July 2011, 18:05   #23
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Default Re: 2011 Tata Indica Vista face-lift Caught Testing

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Originally Posted by AyAn! View Post

Though I agree that the grille shape you've mentioned would enhance the looks of the Vista,I don't think the absence of which is anywhere related to 'Market maturity' and 'perceptions'. I mean its their signature style and they'd like to stick to it.And its just a grille,not something radically different. Why won't it get accepted here?

There are cars (Punto,Linea,Beat,Fluence) with more radical front ends out there and they have been received quite well by the crowd.
If it is a signature style, it should also evolve with time, If you look at the Grilles of the Mercs of 80s and today, you will understand what i meant. I needn't say that it did not happen overnight but over 5 generations of cars all the while retaining the 'character' of the design as well as the image which Mercs stood for. In the Vista, this evolution was not very clear which is why the market misunderstood the vista for a facelift.

Another example is when Hyundai entered India, They screamed from the rooftops about 'Tall Boy' vs Jellybean(an obvious reference to the reigning king - The Maruti Zen) even before they launched the first Santro. Now that talks about a company's sensitivity towards 'Perceptions' and 'Maturity'.

Indian Market today may not accept a 20000 Rs increase for an airbag or a 15000 cost diff for an ABS. That talks about maturity of the market which is the case with styling also where we lag behind the west. 'Styling language' changes with time only in markets where model replacements are frequent. In India we'll have only launches and no discontinuations. For ex: MUL has about 7 hatchbacks (3 generations of ALTO included) which is why we are a confused market in terms of styling as well. In short, we need to be extra careful with launches here in India.

About the acceptance of Punto and Linea in the Indian market, i suggest you read the Sales figures for June 2011 in TeamBHP, that would explain.

If that styling is accepted in other markets, pls note that the market 'Perceptions' and 'Maturity' of those markets are different compared to India.
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Old 5th July 2011, 18:36   #24
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Default Re: 2011 Tata Indica Vista face-lift Caught Testing

The Manza-fied front end looks smarter. But why the ugly plastic cladding on the hatch? A rear spoiler would have been better. The X'mas tree tail lights need to go as well. Tata might as well start work on the Indica ver 3.0.
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Old 5th July 2011, 19:22   #25
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Default Re: 2011 Tata Indica Vista face-lift Caught Testing

Indica/Vista should have a whole new design if they want to compete with the likes to Swift, i20, Figo etc. Vista is a very capable car but it's design somehow doesn't appeal to a lot of private owners !!! Why not Tata continue with the current design for Indicabs and have a whole new design for Private vehicles - I know big heads at Tata may be thinking on similar lines. Anyways couldn't resist commenting when i saw a Mini Manza with Vista badge!!!
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Old 5th July 2011, 20:50   #26
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Default Re: 2011 Tata Indica Vista face-lift Caught Testing

Better late than never. But IMO the biggest drawbacks with Indica and Manza is handling. Once they sort this out, I don't think the looks will matter that much. But if they really want to make wholesome changes,

1) Reduce the height a little bit so that the body roll reduces
2) The cars need more power obviously and no new engines are on the menu. So see if some weight could be reduced
3) Release sport versions of both Manza and Indica that can really take the fight to the swifts
4) While at it, make sure the gearbox is well sorted out.
5) Change Indica's taillights. They are growing old for me suddenly. I guess I have to blame the influx of newer models.
6) Save the chrome and focus on tuning / updating hardware for better driving dynamics and comfort - chassis and gearbox. The engine is already one of the best.
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Old 5th July 2011, 22:28   #27
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Default Re: 2011 Tata Indica Vista face-lift Caught Testing

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Originally Posted by gshanky View Post
1) Reduce the height a little bit so that the body roll reduces
2) The cars need more power obviously and no new engines are on the menu. So see if some weight could be reduced
3) Release sport versions of both Manza and Indica that can really take the fight to the swifts
4) While at it, make sure the gearbox is well sorted out.
5)Change Indica's taillights. They are growing old for me suddenly. I guess I have to blame the influx of newer models.
6) Save the chrome and focus on tuning / updating hardware for better driving dynamics and comfort - chassis and gearbox. The engine is already one of the best.
Adding to the above and slightly correcting
I think stiffening the shocks and 5mm more width on tires should do a lot to improve the handling.
Gearbox is not bad if you have driven the new vista. It does a pretty good job of lugging the heavyweight and gently hiding(not efficient as marutis) the turbolag which is so evident in the 1.3MJD.
Yes change the tail lamps. christmas lamps are of a bygone era.
Better
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Old 5th July 2011, 22:39   #28
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Default Re: 2011 Tata Indica Vista face-lift Caught Testing

Vista's current front looks decent in itself! Sometime back the interiors of the Vista were given a minor facelift and now its time for the exteriors. I still feel the Limited Edition Vista (White with black roof) which came out sometime last year looked better than some hatchbacks. I hope Tata has sorted out the fit & finish and other niggling issues in the car.
Btw, what happened to the Vista90 ?? Haven't seen any on the road yet!
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Old 5th July 2011, 23:09   #29
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Default Re: 2011 Tata Indica Vista face-lift Caught Testing

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Originally Posted by figo_mba View Post
Adding to the above and slightly correcting
I think stiffening the shocks and 5mm more width on tires should do a lot to improve the handling.
Gearbox is not bad if you have driven the new vista. It does a pretty good job of lugging the heavyweight and gently hiding(not efficient as marutis) the turbolag which is so evident in the 1.3MJD.
Yes change the tail lamps. christmas lamps are of a bygone era.
Better

In fact I have driven a newer VISTA. It depends on where your benchmarks are. You would not be saying this if your benchmarks are higher

Quote:
Gearbox is not bad if you have driven the new vista. It does a pretty good job of lugging the heavyweight and gently hiding(not efficient as marutis) the turbolag which is so evident in the 1.3MJD
Last year I had the opportunity to drive Santro and Vista petrol when I was in India. IMO vista gearbox is not as slick as santro's. I hope Vista's gearbox is also improved rather than saying it is good enough.
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Old 5th July 2011, 23:19   #30
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Default Re: 2011 Tata Indica Vista face-lift Caught Testing

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In fact I have driven a newer VISTA. It depends on where your benchmarks are. You would not be saying this if your benchmarks are higher



Last year I had the opportunity to drive Santro and Vista petrol when I was in India. IMO vista gearbox is not as slick as santro's. I hope Vista's gearbox is also improved rather than saying it is good enough.
My benchmarks might not be high. POSSIBLE.

But I would rate New vista gearbox better than Santro. This was launched around a year ago. I do not think this was the one that you drove. I did not like the previous vista gearbox (i owned one) but this drivetech thing is better.
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