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Old 26th August 2011, 11:20   #1201
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Default Re: The K12M VVT Rocks!

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Originally Posted by deetjohn View Post

And to answer your question, I think, I will go with the DDiS. And I know my heart is not liking it a single bit, it will be a compromise. I will miss that VVT.
A compromise then that costs you more initially and less as you go along. I always though a petrol car is a compromise in these times when most of the driving is done in B2B traffic. I liked the VVT mill during my TD but since I didn't go past 3K rpm, the thrill was not evident. It was all too predictable. Engine refinement was fantastic and the clutch was smoother than knife through butter. Later, when I drove my 5 yr old Swift, I was shocked to know how hard the clutch of my car felt.

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Ah finally- someone in the same problem as myself So which one you going for mate?

There is no doubt in my mind either that the K12 is a fabulous mill. But like you said, the fun starts north of 4K RPM. Practically, how much driving do we actually do in that segment of the power band?
Exactly my point. The thrill of the petrol mill is felt above 4K rpm - which is not a practical driving range. A diesel on the other hand gives you the same thrill (higher maybe due to the turbo effect) at a lower rpm which is where you normally drive in the city.

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If I do go for a diesel, I would also miss that K12 gem of a mill. Damn those fuel prices. But then there is also a case for petrol engines, even with the current prices. Break even point is still close to 50,000 clicks, by which time it would be time to upgrade to next car, possibly. What an agonizing paradox to be in
Everytime I try to reason in favour of a petrol mill that way, the fuel costs and overall FE of a petrol car make the case for a diesel all the more stronger.

Last edited by fuel_addict : 26th August 2011 at 11:21.
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Old 26th August 2011, 11:54   #1202
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Default Re: MSIL discontinues old swift. EDIT : New Swift LAUNCHED!

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Originally Posted by arindambasu13 View Post
Though I very much doubt that the review would tear apart the ANSS, because going by almost all the reviews otherwise out in the public domain, the ANSS is undoubtedly better in pretty much all respects over its predecessor, and hence looks to be a massive, massive success in the making.
Saying that the new Swift is better than the old Swift is not saying much simply because old Swift had glaring weaknesses namely build, ride, equipment levels and price. The new one is also not without weakness primarily the boot space which is terribly small for a premium hatchback. When the original Swift was launched there wasn't much competition which is not the case now. Going won't be as easy.
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Old 26th August 2011, 12:05   #1203
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Default Re: MSIL discontinues old swift. EDIT : New Swift LAUNCHED!

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Originally Posted by akhilesh View Post
Saying that the new Swift is better than the old Swift is not saying much simply because old Swift had glaring weaknesses namely build, ride, equipment levels and price. The new one is also not without weakness primarily the boot space which is terribly small for a premium hatchback. When the original Swift was launched there wasn't much competition which is not the case now. Going won't be as easy.
Better is a very relative term. I personally felt, from what i saw of the ANSS, that it is leagues ahead in terms of quality inside. the boot is very small, yes, but for a single person like me, I dont care two hoots about the boot. In fact my present 800's boot has never troubled me much either. But for someone who is looking for more practicality, space and boot volume, this would understandably be a deal breaker.

Like you mentioned, every car has its weaknesses, some more than others, and that is only to be expected. A perfect automobile is yet to see the light of day.

The Swift has been an iconic car through its 5-6 years of existence in India, and for me, it fits the bill perfectly. And to me, most niggles and faults (a lot of which have been ironed out in the ANSS) are substantially overshadowed by that brilliant duo of the K12 and the DDiS. Couple that to the handsome interiors in the present version of the car., and in my books, its a winner

Often, it boils down to which part of the driving experience you are willing to make a trade off for. Are you more concerned with practicality and space? Or are you focused solely or majorly on the driving experience, to put a grin on your face each time you downshift? The choice is yours, and there are options catering to each choice.

Last edited by arindambasu13 : 26th August 2011 at 12:10.
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Old 26th August 2011, 12:44   #1204
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Default Re: MSIL discontinues old swift. EDIT : New Swift LAUNCHED!

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Originally Posted by arindambasu13 View Post
Better is a very relative term. I personally felt, from what i saw of the ANSS, that it is leagues ahead in terms of quality inside. the boot is very small, yes, but for a single person like me, I dont care two hoots about the boot. In fact my present 800's boot has never troubled me much either. But for someone who is looking for more practicality, space and boot volume, this would understandably be a deal breaker.

Like you mentioned, every car has its weaknesses, some more than others, and that is only to be expected. A perfect automobile is yet to see the light of day.

The Swift has been an iconic car through its 5-6 years of existence in India, and for me, it fits the bill perfectly. And to me, most niggles and faults (a lot of which have been ironed out in the ANSS) are substantially overshadowed by that brilliant duo of the K12 and the DDiS. Couple that to the handsome interiors in the present version of the car., and in my books, its a winner

Often, it boils down to which part of the driving experience you are willing to make a trade off for. Are you more concerned with practicality and space? Or are you focused solely or majorly on the driving experience, to put a grin on your face each time you downshift? The choice is yours, and there are options catering to each choice.
My response was to your premise that t-bhp will have a favorable review since you like the car which is not the case.
If you ask me Honda Jazz at 5.5 Lakh is a much better deal with none of the weaknesses that Swift has. The 1.2 liter Vtec engine is as good if not better than K12 and has marginally more power too.
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Old 26th August 2011, 12:49   #1205
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Default Re: MSIL discontinues old swift. EDIT : New Swift LAUNCHED!

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Originally Posted by akhilesh View Post
My response was to your premise that t-bhp will have a favorable review since you like the car which is not the case.
If you ask me Honda Jazz at 5.5 Lakh is a much better deal with none of the weaknesses that Swift has. The 1.2 liter Vtec engine is as good if not better than K12 and has marginally more power too.
My anticipation as to a favourable TBHP review was not because I like the car. I understand that it is a completely personal viewpoint as to which car suits ones preferences to the best extent.

The premises based on which I drew that conclusion was (a) almost all reviews in the public domain speak highly of the car and (b) members on the forum who have test driven it have had primarily good things to speak of, save pointing out the obvious flaws with the model (e.g. small boot space etc.).

Further, I have no doubt in my mind that the Jazz has an excellent engine, and that in many respects, it is one of the best hatchbacks in the market today, especially with the recent price cuts. It is my view that both engines i.e. K12 and the iVTEC motor are excellent in their own right, and as many have rightly pointed out, are the 2 best small capacity petrol engines in the market now.

Having said that, the TBHP review is yet to be out, so it is remains to be seen what the Mods have to say. It remains my belief though, that it will be a favourable review.

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Old 26th August 2011, 13:03   #1206
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Default Re: MSIL discontinues old swift. EDIT : New Swift LAUNCHED!

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Originally Posted by arindambasu13 View Post
My anticipation as to a favourable TBHP review was not because I like the car. I understand that it is a completely personal viewpoint as to which car suits ones preferences to the best extent.

The premises based on which I drew that conclusion was (a) almost all reviews in the public domain speak highly of the car and (b) members on the forum who have test driven it have had primarily good things to speak of, save pointing out the obvious flaws with the model (e.g. small boot space etc.).

Further, I have no doubt in my mind that the Jazz has an excellent engine, and that in many respects, it is one of the best hatchbacks in the market today, especially with the recent price cuts. It is my view that both engines i.e. K12 and the iVTEC motor are excellent in their own right, and as many have rightly pointed out, are the 2 best small capacity petrol engines in the market now.

Having said that, the TBHP review is yet to be out, so it is remains to be seen what the Mods have to say. It remains my belief though, that it will be a favourable review.
I am sorry but have seen and felt the new Swift but the Jazz beats it hollow be quality, space, build or brand name.
The diesel Swift has tough competition in the form of Punto 90 Hp which costs the same after discounts, i20, Figo and the VW Polo.
The reviews speak highly of the car but where does it stand when compared to the competition. That is where its real test is and I am afraid its not very close.
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Old 26th August 2011, 13:08   #1207
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Default Re: MSIL discontinues old swift. EDIT : New Swift LAUNCHED!

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Originally Posted by akhilesh View Post
I am sorry but have seen and felt the new Swift but the Jazz beats it hollow be quality, space, build or brand name.
The diesel Swift has tough competition in the form of Punto 90 Hp which costs the same after discounts, i20, Figo and the VW Polo.
The reviews speak highly of the car but where does it stand when compared to the competition. That is where its real test is and I am afraid its not very close.
And yet it manages to set the sales charts on fire (talking about the last gen swift here, yet to know about the long term sales of the ANSS), without even being very close Anyways, your opinion is respected. I have my own. And as for tough competition, why should it be anything but. At the end of the day, it is increased competition, and that only bodes well for the consumer! Just like Honda has realised it the tough way by being forced to reduce the price tag on the Jazz, which, though a good product, was a sales dud since initial launch. Three cheers for competition.

Last edited by arindambasu13 : 26th August 2011 at 13:12.
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Old 26th August 2011, 13:13   #1208
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I hear that there are 50000 bookings right now and out of which 40000 are for diesel variant. Clearly people are moving towards diesel and amazing numbers pulled on by the new car. Demo car was not available for when I was at the dealership.
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Old 26th August 2011, 13:54   #1209
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Default Re: MSIL discontinues old swift. EDIT : New Swift LAUNCHED!

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Originally Posted by akhilesh View Post
I am sorry but have seen and felt the new Swift but the Jazz beats it hollow be quality, space, build or brand name.
How about looks, ride & handling?

True Jazz is an excellent choice at the current prices, but its not an enthusiast's car as much as its a spacious mini-van! An excellent one at that though!
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Originally Posted by akhilesh View Post
The diesel Swift has tough competition in the form of Punto 90 Hp which costs the same after discounts, i20, Figo and the VW Polo.
Let the sales figures come out! Agreed competition is more now (though i would not count Punto 90HP as serious competition), but i feel swift will be the market leader by a fairly large margin.
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Old 26th August 2011, 14:03   #1210
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Default Re: MSIL discontinues old swift. EDIT : New Swift LAUNCHED!

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Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
How about looks, ride & handling?

True Jazz is an excellent choice at the current prices, but its not an enthusiast's car as much as its a spacious mini-van! An excellent one at that though!

Let the sales figures come out! Agreed competition is more now (though i would not count Punto 90HP as serious competition), but i feel swift will be the market leader by a fairly large margin.
I agree Jazz has a stiff low speed ride but the old Swift too had pretty bad ride quality. I don't know how much the new one has improved in that.
Jazz is not a bad handler at all though Swift is better.

At the end, it boils down to one's preferences.

About the sales, I think Swift will lead the charts by a fair margin.
It is unfortunate that we do not have the break up of the models but I would like to see the sales of Swift ZXI vs the Jazz (since Jazz has not got any stripped-off variants as such). My guess is Jazz will win hands down with the price revision (which obviously can't be validated)
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Old 26th August 2011, 14:08   #1211
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Default Re: MSIL discontinues old swift. EDIT : New Swift LAUNCHED!

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Other vehicles? You mean other hatches, right? Because other vehicles also include Verna, Optra Magnum and Cruze which will grow bigger and bigger in your rearview mirror until they just blast past.
Where is the place on indian roads for verna optra and other sedans to blast past anyways i meant Other hatches ofcourse !!

Last edited by Crazy4.Cars : 26th August 2011 at 14:10.
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Old 26th August 2011, 14:16   #1212
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Default Re: MSIL discontinues old swift. EDIT : New Swift LAUNCHED!

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At the end, it boils down to one's preferences.
I totally agree!

Infact i already have suggested and adviced some people towards Jazz. Most people in my office were shocked to hear that a Honda comes at 6L! And for many, owning a Honda is like - making it large in life!

But for the enthusiast who wants the better car to drive- I'd suggest Swift ZXi over Jazz. However, this will be small portion of the overall market.

A little OT- City used to be Honda's cheapest desirable car. Now i see most people thinking the same about Jazz! Remains to be seen how this affects the city!
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Originally Posted by adimicra View Post
My guess is Jazz will win hands down with the price revision (which obviously can't be validated)
Swift ZXi will take a hit, but lower versions will remain bestsellers. But even more interesting will be the case of i20 petrol! Hopefully, they will respond by bringing out a manual version of the 1.4 petrol.

Last edited by CrAzY dRiVeR : 26th August 2011 at 14:19.
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Old 26th August 2011, 14:19   #1213
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Default Re: MSIL discontinues old swift. EDIT : New Swift LAUNCHED!

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Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
How about looks, ride & handling?
The ride on Jazz is better and Swift handles slightly better. And if ride and handling is so important for you, that you are willing to overlook brand image, quality, build, interiors space then why not Punto?

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True Jazz is an excellent choice at the current prices, but its not an enthusiast's car as much as its a spacious mini-van! An excellent one at that though!
This just smacks of bias! I find the older Jazz better looking than even the current Swift, the new Jazz less so.
It not only manages to look better but also provides more interior space and crucially boot space which will help it perform its duties as a premium hatchback better than the Swift.

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Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
Let the sales figures come out! Agreed competition is more now (though i would not count Punto 90HP as serious competition), but i feel swift will be the market leader by a fairly large margin.
Isn't this the argument that everyone resorts to when cornered talking about the Swift?

Last edited by akhilesh : 26th August 2011 at 14:20.
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Old 26th August 2011, 14:34   #1214
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Default Re: MSIL discontinues old swift. EDIT : New Swift LAUNCHED!

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Originally Posted by akhilesh View Post
Isn't this the argument that everyone resorts to when cornered talking about the Swift?
+1. Number of units sold cannot be a parameter to compare how good or bad 2 cars are. Its like that stupid advt of Bajaj Pulsar "No. 1 sports bike in India" by number of units sold. Hunto!

Jazz will not set the charts on fire, but that doesnt make it any inferior. Also, if Jazz dominates the hatch market tomorrow, Swift doesnt become a less exciting car suddenly. Both have their own pluses+minuses. I am saying it again, lets not compare the Swift with any other car on this thread. We should have another thread for the comparisons.

Last edited by ajay_satpute : 26th August 2011 at 14:36.
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Old 26th August 2011, 14:47   #1215
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Default Re: MSIL discontinues old swift. EDIT : New Swift LAUNCHED!

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Originally Posted by akhilesh View Post
The ride on Jazz is better and Swift handles slightly better.
Ride on Jazz is better? Compared to new Swift or old one?
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Originally Posted by akhilesh View Post
And if ride and handling is so important for you, that you are willing to overlook brand image, quality, build, interiors space then why not Punto?
Sadly, because of their after-sales network. And most importantly, huge depreciation. A first car is a big asset for anyone, and i really cant take the risk with the Punto!

To answer you, with new swift-
Brand image- Dont care much. Suzuki has a good enough image atleast in the indian market. Swift, specially so! (However, i wouldnt buy TATA Vista for the taxi image which is a bit different case).

Quality- Checked out the new swift, and loved it. Beautiful interiors in black, feels good except for few rare parts. Mechanicals will be as reliable as ever too.

Build- I'd keep my doubts on this till a few ownership reports pour in, but the impression on the display car was pretty good.

Interior space- Decent enough for a family of 4. (Boot space is less, although I havent used the WagonR boot except for may be like once a year!).
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