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Old 26th August 2011, 15:18   #1216
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Default Re: MSIL discontinues old swift. EDIT : New Swift LAUNCHED!

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
I totally agree!



Swift ZXi will take a hit, but lower versions will remain bestsellers. But even more interesting will be the case of i20 petrol! Hopefully, they will respond by bringing out a manual version of the 1.4 petrol.
The i20 1.4 already has a M/T version if I recall correctly. In fact, some Hyundai salesmen themselves aren't aware of the A/T option.
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Old 26th August 2011, 15:28   #1217
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Default Re: MSIL discontinues old swift. EDIT : New Swift LAUNCHED!

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Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
Sadly, because of their after-sales network. And most importantly, huge depreciation. A first car is a big asset for anyone, and i really cant take the risk with the Punto!
Huge depreciation? Can you please help us out with some numbers or some fact else this remains a rhetoric. Rather than age old stories why dont you read out the ownership reviews to see if there is an actual problem with A$$ compared to other brands.
Why do you hate to admit that ride and handling is not a priority but the resale value 5 years hence is. But then again when comparison with Jazz comes in you start tom toming how good Swift's handling is as if that is all you care for. Come on man, honesty wouldn't hurt here rather proclaiming yourself to be someone you are not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
To answer you, with new swift-
Brand image- Dont care much. Suzuki has a good enough image atleast in the indian market. Swift, specially so! (However, i wouldnt buy TATA Vista for the taxi image which is a bit different case).
On one hand you say you don't care much about brand image and and in the same sentence you deride Tata Vista for being a taxi which it is actually not. It was the original Indica which has a taxi image.

I don't care two hoots about brand image but the Indian consumer does and there is no denying the fact that Honda has more snob value than a Suzuki.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
Quality- Checked out the new swift, and loved it. Beautiful interiors in black, feels good except for few rare parts. Mechanicals will be as reliable as ever too.
It is good when compared to the old Swift which was average at best. Its still quite some way off Jazz's which is one of the best built car around.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
Build- I'd keep my doubts on this till a few ownership reports pour in, but the impression on the display car was pretty good.
Again what are you comparing it to? The older Swift was pretty much average and its not hidden, its all over the forum.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
Interior space- Decent enough for a family of 4. (Boot space is less, although I havent used the WagonR boot except for may be like once a year!).
Lets give it another perspective. You want to use it once a year and its still not there. Wagon-R's boot, atleast the older one was much more usable than the Swift. 200 liters boot space in a premium hatchback just doesnt cut. Its not even enough for a small family on a weeks holiday.

In the end Jazz Vs Swift comparison is useless. Jazz is in a different segment altogether which is also reflected in its pricing. Jazz has received rave reviews in market throughout where the Swift isn't even sold.
Bucking the trend, Jazz is one Honda model which is priced cheaper in India when compared to the other markets. In UK Jazz range starts at 11XXX pounds while Swift range starts at 8XXX.

Last edited by akhilesh : 26th August 2011 at 15:30.
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Old 26th August 2011, 15:41   #1218
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Default Re: MSIL discontinues old swift. EDIT : New Swift LAUNCHED!

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Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
(However, i wouldnt buy TATA Vista for the taxi image which is a bit different case).
I think you should check your facts before you go Tata bashing. How many Vistas have you seen as taxis? I have seen none. Indica. Yes, scores of them. But not Vista.
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Old 26th August 2011, 15:46   #1219
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Default Re: MSIL discontinues old swift. EDIT : New Swift LAUNCHED!

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I think you should check your facts before you go Tata bashing. How many Vistas have you seen as taxis? I have seen none. Indica. Yes, scores of them. But not Vista.
umm...I see a whole lot of them vistas as taxis here in Pune.

But this is getting seriously OT here. Can T-Bhp Mods actually test/compare these two petrol cars (Jazz and Swift Zxi) to substantiate whats being said here in this thread?
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Old 26th August 2011, 15:57   #1220
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Default Re: MSIL discontinues old swift. EDIT : New Swift LAUNCHED!

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
I....But for the enthusiast who wants the better car to drive- I'd suggest Swift ZXi over Jazz. However, this will be small portion of the overall market.
....
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
...Sadly, because of their after-sales network. And most importantly, huge depreciation. A first car is a big asset for anyone, and i really cant take the risk with the Punto!
....
Apologies CrAzY dRiVeR, but your comments above are sort of confusing and contradicting.. It kind of gives an impression that you are looking out for a resale value car. Sadly there is no enthusiast's car which enjoys a good resale. A punto 90 hp or Swift DDis for that matter is misunderstood as enthusiast's car IMHO ..

Good handling is more of a safety feature rather than a sporty feature (mythbuster)..

Also, I believe you have owned a Fiat for long term due to the confident comment on their after sales and service.

Last edited by Speed Pujari : 26th August 2011 at 15:59.
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Old 26th August 2011, 16:21   #1221
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Default Re: MSIL discontinues old swift. EDIT : New Swift LAUNCHED!

Quote:
Originally Posted by fuel_addict View Post
The i20 1.4 already has a M/T version if I recall correctly.
i20 comes in 1.2 petrol, 1.4 CRDi and 1.4 Petrol AT options only. 1.4 petrol MT is not available!
Quote:
Originally Posted by akhilesh View Post
Rather than age old stories why dont you read out the ownership reviews to see if there is an actual problem with A$$ compared to other brands.
Team-BHP - View Poll Results

Above expectation- 68 votes.
Meets expectation- 143 votes.
Below expectation- 101 votes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fuel_addict View Post
Why do you hate to admit that ride and handling is not a priority but the resale value 5 years hence is. But then again when comparison with Jazz comes in you start tom toming how good Swift's handling is as if that is all you care for. Come on man, honesty wouldn't hurt here rather proclaiming yourself to be someone you are not.
Ride and handling is a priority. Punto is on the top of that pyramid without doubt, I agree. But I'm not taking that risk putting hard earned money on a FIAT no matter how better it is!

Its not like a person has only one priority. Most purchases are a compromise on multiple priorities and a product which fulfills the most boxes.

As for me- I'm looking at the following-

1. Fun to drive hatch with decent power.
2. Good ride and handling. (Current ride is a WagonR which is why i am so fixed on ride and handling. Want something much more fun to throw around corners).
3. Looks.
4. Interior quality.
5. Features, specially power windows, ABS and ACC.
5. Reliable, holds its value over short term and long term.

5. Cost of running.
6. Should be mod-friendly since I'll be keeping it for a long term.

7. Image. Not brand value, but the image the car potrays. I want something that feels young and sporty.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fuel_addict View Post
It was the original Indica which has a taxi image.
Try getting women to spot a Vista from an Indica. Hopefully, the new refresh will be better in this respect. Yet to see it personally. Majority of people think Vista suffers from Indica's taxi image.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...a-sighhhh.html (That's an Indica. Nope, Vista...Nah Indica!! SIGHHHH!)
Quote:
Originally Posted by fuel_addict View Post
In the end Jazz Vs Swift comparison is useless.
Isnt that what I'm saying? Jazz is the better car for most people! More brand image, better space, better boot, comparable or better engine.

However, that doesnt make it a fun car! The handling, steering are just not there! I believe same has been echoed in Team Bhp Official review as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Speed Pujari View Post
A punto 90 hp or Swift DDis for that matter is misunderstood as enthusiast's car IMHO ..
In the segment, which one would you recommend then?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Speed Pujari View Post
Also, I believe you have owned a Fiat for long term due to the confident comment on their after sales and service.
I haven't. Apologies if I have given that impression somewhere. And i am not taking that risk either- mainly FIAT and to an extent Skoda.

PS- Yet to do the final round of TDs before booking any car. Will do that in the first week of sep when i get back home for Onam holidays.

Last edited by CrAzY dRiVeR : 26th August 2011 at 16:30.
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Old 26th August 2011, 17:00   #1222
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Default Re: MSIL discontinues old swift. EDIT : New Swift LAUNCHED!

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
In the segment, which one would you recommend then?

I haven't. Apologies if I have given that impression somewhere. And i am not taking that risk either- mainly FIAT and to an extent Skoda.

PS- Yet to do the final round of TDs before booking any car. Will do that in the first week of sep when i get back home for Onam holidays.
You TD a Polo 1.6 if 'fun' is what you need in the segment. But it comes for a cost. And if you have ticked off skoda then you may have to go away from their sibling. VW parts are expensive, this is based on two of my friends owning a Polo.

A 1.2 can never give you what you are hunting for, a 1.4 may to some extent.. A 1.2 can assure you a good resale though.

I have driven many 1.2 cars (i20, Polo, swift, Punto etc.) and each behave same and there is nothing in any of the car to jump about except minor differences..

DDiS will be fun only on highways.

My fiat comment was more of a sarcasm, pls dont take it seriously. Talk to a Fiat owner personally and compare his experience with your maruti experiences, or you can PM me and talk to me.

Note that on highways good handling is a boon. This you will realise only if you experience it. I am not talking about the 'fun' factor but the safe feeling factor...
If car is an asset and if buying a car is more of an investement for you, then close your eyes and go for swift, but again 'kuchh paane ke kuchh khona to padega'..

No offence but I dont find Swift so much Fun to drive like it is claimed here.
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Old 26th August 2011, 17:04   #1223
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Default Re: MSIL discontinues old swift. EDIT : New Swift LAUNCHED!

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
Team-BHP - View Poll Results

Above expectation- 68 votes.
Meets expectation- 143 votes.
Below expectation- 101 votes.
So the Fiat after sales is exceeding or atleast meeting the expectation of more than 2/3rd buyers. How is it bad or can be termed worst?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
Ride and handling is a priority. Punto is on the top of that pyramid without doubt, I agree. But I'm not taking that risk putting hard earned money on a FIAT no matter how better it is!

Its not like a person has only one priority. Most purchases are a compromise on multiple priorities and a product which fulfills the most boxes.
And when it comes to Swift it suddenly becomes the topmost priority when it comes to judging it in comparison with other cars.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
7. Image. Not brand value, but the image the car potrays. I want something that feels young and sporty.
More than the youth I see Swift being driven by more middle aged men here in Delhi. That doesn't fit the 'image' thing you are on about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
Try getting women to spot a Vista from an Indica. Hopefully, the new refresh will be better in this respect. Yet to see it personally. Majority of people think Vista suffers from Indica's taxi image.
Why would I do that? Why this fixation with what other people think of your car?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
Isnt that what I'm saying? Jazz is the better car for most people! More brand image, better space, better boot, comparable or better engine.
You called it a "mini van" I didn't. Honda makes best petrol engines on the planet and its a fact.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
However, that doesnt make it a fun car! The handling, steering are just not there! I believe same has been echoed in Team Bhp Official review as well.
I am sorry but from your posts I can assert that you haven't driven the Jazz at all. And before quoting official reviews, do we have an official review for Swift out yet?
What do you mean when you say the steering and handling arent there? What wrong with handling, oversteer, understeer, no steer? What wrong with the steering? The last I knew, both of them came with electric power steering and are equally life less but then again I find the steering in Jazz smoother and slightly more direct.

Last edited by akhilesh : 26th August 2011 at 17:07.
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Old 26th August 2011, 17:54   #1224
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Default Re: MSIL discontinues old swift. EDIT : New Swift LAUNCHED!

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
Isnt that what I'm saying? Jazz is the better car for most people! More brand image, better space, better boot, comparable or better engine.

However, that doesnt make it a fun car! The handling, steering are just not there! I believe same has been echoed in Team Bhp Official review as well.
I want to keep the reply precise on the above point.
The steering in Jazz is one of the better EPS units I have driven. Obviously, one can't compare with the Punto or Fiesta (classic) with HPS.
But, it is better than the steering of Polo (The Hyundai cars have the worst ones) and comparable to the Swift.
I seriously wonder if you have driven the jazz for some period of time. I don't think Swift has a better steering.
Swift has some advantage in cornering but Jazz is not bad at all.

And AFAIK, Swift's ride quality was a major negative, don't know how much the new one has improved in this aspect

Last edited by adimicra : 26th August 2011 at 17:58.
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Old 26th August 2011, 18:02   #1225
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Default Re: MSIL discontinues old swift. EDIT : New Swift LAUNCHED!

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Originally Posted by adimicra View Post
I want to keep the reply precise on the above point.
The steering in Jazz is one of the better EPS units I have driven. Obviously, one can't compare with the Punto or Fiesta (classic) with HPS.
But, it is better than the steering of Polo (The Hyundai cars have the worst ones) and comparable to the Swift.
I seriously wonder if you have driven the jazz for some period of time. I don't think Swift has a better steering.
Swift has some advantage in cornering but Jazz is not bad at all.
I dont think this thread is about a war of attributes between the Jazz and ANSS. In my opinion, both are good products, and very obviously have their own fan following. For instance, I am a die hard fan of the Swift, while I have friends who are equally in love with the Jazz. For various reasons. Therefore, comparing the Swift with the Jazz, and pointing out attributes of either, or holding the others features in an unfavourable light, wont serve any purpose. Though of course, everyone is entitled to their views and their expression.

Lets accept the fact that each car has its strong points, which appeal to people with varying sets of requirements (this could be brand image, after sales service, resale value, fun to drive quotient, spaciousness, practicality or whatever else). Both cars score differently on each count, and at the end oen outscores the other from person to person.

For instance, as far as the EPS is concerned, I have driven the Swift (last gen) extensively, while I have driven the Jazz sparingly. At the end of that, in my opinion, the steering - chassis - engine combination in the Swift appeals to me much more than it does in the Jazz. For the very next person, the story may be the complete opposite, and that is only to be expected. It is for this very reason that different manufacturers thrive in a competitive market.

So to each his own.

Last edited by arindambasu13 : 26th August 2011 at 18:08.
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Old 26th August 2011, 18:05   #1226
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Default Re: MSIL discontinues old swift. EDIT : New Swift LAUNCHED!

mods : Please Close This Thread As It Is Completely Going Off Topic!!
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Old 26th August 2011, 18:08   #1227
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Default Re: MSIL discontinues old swift. EDIT : New Swift LAUNCHED!

Why do we hijack this thread and drift into the comaprison between Jazz and ANSS ?

Let's do justice to the topic and continue our posts on the Swift only!

Cheers!
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Old 26th August 2011, 18:32   #1228
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Default Re: MSIL discontinues old swift. EDIT : New Swift LAUNCHED!

Even in Dubai Jazz is priced 7000 AED (Rs.84,000) above City. And it sells quite well.





Bucking the trend, Jazz is one Honda model which is priced cheaper in India when compared to the other markets. In UK Jazz range starts at 11XXX pounds while Swift range starts at 8XXX.[/quote]
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Old 26th August 2011, 18:45   #1229
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Default Re: MSIL discontinues old swift. EDIT : New Swift LAUNCHED!

I am wondering why isnt there an official tbhp review as yet? Tbhp generally reviews soon after the launch. Waiting for this one.
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Old 26th August 2011, 19:17   #1230
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Default Re: MSIL discontinues old swift. EDIT : New Swift LAUNCHED!

Why are we so diligently comparing Jazz and Swift? Don't they belong to two different segments and cater to different expectations? After all isn't it only one Swift model ZXI that is pitted against 3 of Jazz's?

Jazz has for itself the 'aspirational' value of Honda which is an integral part of the company's marketing strategy, while Maruti, on the other hand markets its products on entirely different planks. While Jazz certainly is a good car but Swift is no raw deal either. Both have their strengths and weaknesses and I wonder that for this forum how these attributes are important so as to have quite a number of posts comparing Swift and Jazz. After all 80% of Swift sale is Diesel and in case of Petrol, as mentioned earlier, it is only one ZXI that is pitted against Jazz.

Let's confine ourselves in this thread to Swift and for comparison b/w Jazz and Swift we will have lots of opportunities in the appropriate topics later on.

Last edited by anandjha : 26th August 2011 at 19:19.
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