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Old 11th July 2011, 12:46   #16
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Default Re: The 'Synthetic' Way: How Practical?

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Originally Posted by nishantgandhi View Post
IMHO, the 10k oil change interval advised by the SA would be on semi-synth.
Nope. On my swift, the recommended interval is 10K Kms for regular mineral oil - that too MGO which is an obsolete API Grade. If you are using something like Castrol GTX, then 10K Kms should be very safe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nishantgandhi View Post
P.S. One of the Mobil oil dealers in Mumbai advised me a change interval of 20-25k kms on fully synthetic Mobil1. He runs his cars on Mobil1 5w-50 Fully Synth and has not changed since the last 30k kms.

For the average person, 20-25K would be done in 2 years. You anyway would take it for servicing once a year - so why not use something like Castrol GTX & change it every 10K Kms.

Last edited by carboy : 11th July 2011 at 12:48.
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Old 11th July 2011, 12:54   #17
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Default Re: The 'Synthetic' Way: How Practical?

Maruti recommends an oil change every 10k KM / 1 year, whichever is earlier. This holds good for cars with the K series engines as well as my 2009 Alto LXi (previous gen). The former cars run on semi-synth MGO or Mobil full synth, while the latter run on normal API-SF grade 20W40 MGO.

The Laxman rekha is the same for both categories -10k Km or one year, whichever is earlier, period. In my case my car runs only 5K Km per year, so I don't find value in throwing away expensive synth oil at this mileage - but don't mind changing the mineral Shell HX5 I use, which costs just Rs 750.00 for 3 litres.

Changing synthetic oil every 20K Km / two years is hogwash. May be it can be stretched to 12k KM if one does it within one year. But if your car is under warranty or extended warranty, play around with the oil change interval at your own peril.

@OP
If someone is able to buy and run a car, he is hardly "aam jaanta" in India, at least not yet! He will factor in the cost of oil at the time of purchase. And afaik no company forces synthetic oil on the buyer - they all offer their own branded semi-synth at a much lesser price.
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Old 11th July 2011, 12:59   #18
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Default Re: The 'Synthetic' Way: How Practical?

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Originally Posted by Gansan View Post
Changing synthetic oil every 20K Km / two years is hogwash. May be it can be stretched to 12k KM if one does it within one year. But if your car is under warranty or extended warranty, play around with the oil change interval at your own peril.
Are you saying it's hogwash from warranty point of view or that it won't last 20K kms?
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Old 11th July 2011, 13:03   #19
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Default Re: The 'Synthetic' Way: How Practical?

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Are you saying it's hogwash from warranty point of view or that it won't last 20K kms?
I mean both. Read GPA's Alto ownership thread where he mentions Mobil full synth having to be changed at 7500 KM and he went back to mineral.
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Old 11th July 2011, 13:21   #20
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Default Re: The 'Synthetic' Way: How Practical?

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Originally Posted by nitrous View Post
They've gone to a lighter viscosity for fuel efficiency's sake. Of course, they've improved lubrication hardware and engine design to compensate for this.
Hi,
Um.. I guess you mean oil?.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nitrous View Post
Synthetic is only "recommended" by SAs as the margins are far higher.
True, but I know atleast 4-5 new car owners go for synthetic as the SA recommended it. Later on, when the calculate the running costs, crib about it.
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Originally Posted by nitrous View Post
If every manufacturer pushes for full synth, it would translate to higher running costs and would reflect badly on the company.
So still, why is atleast a part of them pushing it?. Are newer engines more efficient only on Synthetic oil?
Quote:
Originally Posted by nishantgandhi View Post
Do the math....
... Rs 1250 odd (incl labour) for one oil change....
... Rs 3,000-3,500 per oil change
... I dont think a differential of Rs 500-1,000 is that big a deal!..
I'm sorry but the difference is not just 1000. Oil will cost about ~4000 bucks and including labour and filter it would cost ~5000. thats a 5 times increase.

Also, synthetic oil's ONLY provide superior lubrication. AFAIK, they DO NOT increase the oil change intervals.


P.S - btw, this is not a synthetic vs mineral oil thread.

The question is: Is the increase in running cost of a 5L rupee hatch coz of synthetic oil a sensible one for a common man?. And why, this change from the manufacturers.?
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Old 11th July 2011, 13:27   #21
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Default Re: The 'Synthetic' Way: How Practical?

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Originally Posted by Gansan View Post
I mean both. Read GPA's Alto ownership thread where he mentions Mobil full synth having to be changed at 7500 KM and he went back to mineral.
I am not sure where gpa got his info from, but it's absolutely wrong. Synthetic oils have drain intervals much greater than mineral oils - there have been a lot of studies.
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Old 11th July 2011, 13:48   #22
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Default Re: The 'Synthetic' Way: How Practical?

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Originally Posted by carboy View Post
I am not sure where gpa got his info from, but it's absolutely wrong. Synthetic oils have drain intervals much greater than mineral oils - there have been a lot of studies.
He did not get the info from anywhere - it was his own experience. If you have links to any of those studies, please furnish and I will stand corrected!

So far as I have gleaned from the sites of oil mfrs themselves, synth oils provide considerably higher levels of protection as compared to mineral oils, but still have to be changed once a year even if the mileage is not completed.

That is why I feel if I stick to a good mineral oil (API SL) and change it every 5k Km or 6 months (even though the recommendation is 10k KM / 12 months), it will be good for my car as well as wallet. A caveat though ; if the owner's manual recommends a semi synth or synth grade, that must be adhered to. In my case it does not.

If synthetic oils can last 25k Km, can I keep them unchanged in my sump for five years? Because that is how long it will take me to complete 25k Km!

@dhanushs
The costs will significantly increase if the mfrs insist on a synthetic oil only. But they do give a choice of lesser priced semi-synth as well, don't they?

Last edited by Gansan : 11th July 2011 at 13:54.
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Old 11th July 2011, 14:10   #23
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Default Re: The 'Synthetic' Way: How Practical?

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Originally Posted by Gansan View Post
He did not get the info from anywhere - it was his own experience. If you have links to any of those studies, please furnish and I will stand corrected!

So far as I have gleaned from the sites of oil mfrs themselves, synth oils provide considerably higher levels of protection as compared to mineral oils, but still have to be changed once a year even if the mileage is not completed.

That is why I feel if I stick to a good mineral oil (API SL) and change it every 5k Km or 6 months (even though the recommendation is 10k KM / 12 months), it will be good for my car as well as wallet. A caveat though ; if the owner's manual recommends a semi synth or synth grade, that must be adhered to. In my case it does not.

If synthetic oils can last 25k Km, can I keep them unchanged in my sump for five years? Because that is how long it will take me to complete 25k Km!

@dhanushs
The costs will significantly increase if the mfrs insist on a synthetic oil only. But they do give a choice of lesser priced semi-synth as well, don't they?
Why do you have the notion that you have to change the oil in your car every year irrespective of the mileage? And yes, you can change your oil after 5 years if that's what it takes for you to complete 25,000 kms.

When you are not ready to believe the manufacturers recommended oil change interval of 10,000 kms, and insist on sticking to the ancient 5000 kms interval, how will the following links, presented as evidence, convince you to move your oil-change interval to a longer timeframe?

3,000 mile myth - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

LUBE REPORT: Ford Extends Oil Change Intervals

HowStuffWorks Videos "3,000 Mile Oil Change Myth"

Mobil 1 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://www.mobil1.in/images/whymobil/lower_oil.jpg
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Old 11th July 2011, 14:56   #24
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Default Re: The 'Synthetic' Way: How Practical?

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Originally Posted by Neilguy View Post
Why do you have the notion that you have to change the oil in your car every year irrespective of the mileage? And yes, you can change your oil after 5 years if that's what it takes for you to complete 25,000 kms.

When you are not ready to believe the manufacturers recommended oil change interval of 10,000 kms, and insist on sticking to the ancient 5000 kms interval, how will the following links, presented as evidence, convince you to move your oil-change interval to a longer timeframe?

3,000 mile myth - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

LUBE REPORT: Ford Extends Oil Change Intervals

HowStuffWorks Videos "3,000 Mile Oil Change Myth"

Mobil 1 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://www.mobil1.in/images/whymobil/lower_oil.jpg
I don't have a "notion" that I have to change engine oil every 6 months! The car maker's recommendation of anything comes with a caveat - "more frequently in case of severe conditions" - so I am merely erring on the side of caution, that is all! Sometimes I miss the half yearly change and go for the 12 month change, since the distance travelled is only 5k KM.

I have seen all the links provided by you and then some more, but sorry, none of them convince me I can leave the oil in the sump for more than a year. What we ultimately have to adhere to is the guidelines of the engine maker, else we can kiss the warranty goodbye!
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Old 11th July 2011, 15:58   #25
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Default Re: The 'Synthetic' Way: How Practical?

Dhanush, it's all about money & margins. Like Nitrous mentioned.

SA's have their targets. Each synth oil usage will double that particular service bill. Most people run very less, so they will come back for an oil change in 6 months. So higher bills & more often.

The margins for the A.S.S is also higher.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dhanushs View Post
The question is: Is the increase in running cost of a 5L rupee hatch coz of synthetic oil a sensible one for a common man?. And why, this change from the manufacturers.?
@Dhanush, simple answer - it is not so.

The manufacturer has not changed anything - since he is not insisting on synth oil. Like on that label, the manufacturer has only specified what type of oil must be used.
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Old 11th July 2011, 16:14   #26
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Default Re: The 'Synthetic' Way: How Practical?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neilguy View Post
Why do you have the notion that you have to change the oil in your car every year irrespective of the mileage? And yes, you can change your oil after 5 years if that's what it takes for you to complete 25,000 kms.

When you are not ready to believe the manufacturers recommended oil change interval of 10,000 kms, and insist on sticking to the ancient 5000 kms interval, how will the following links, presented as evidence, convince you to move your oil-change interval to a longer timeframe?

3,000 mile myth - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

LUBE REPORT: Ford Extends Oil Change Intervals

HowStuffWorks Videos "3,000 Mile Oil Change Myth"

Mobil 1 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://www.mobil1.in/images/whymobil/lower_oil.jpg
Hi

IMO the oil change is for every 12 months period irrespective of how good an oil you use .

Synth oils are stable at ambient temp but in cold weather they may not thicken up or gain in viscosity as they are meant to maintain their specified thickness.Possibly like Condor has said the choice is of the user and not the maker whilst the maker only recommends and does not insist. A better logic may be to take into consideration the running expected between oil change and then go synth or stay mineral.
Cheers
Prasad
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Old 17th July 2011, 11:53   #27
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Default Re: The 'Synthetic' Way: How Practical?

I just got my City back from service. The SA gave me the option of both Mineral and Synthetic oils, with Synthetic being more expensive by about 1200 or so (essentially double the cost of mineral). I opted for Synthetic as a test. However, on enquiring the SA said one still has to change oil at 5k!

I think Honda is being conservative and asking for services every 5k
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Old 17th July 2011, 18:07   #28
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Default Re: The 'Synthetic' Way: How Practical?

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Originally Posted by Dieseldunk View Post
Hi

IMO the oil change is for every 12 months period irrespective of how good an oil you use .
That may not work with high usage vehicles running on mineral oil. In case of mineral oils, it's best to stick to the manufacturer recommendations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by prashanthyr View Post
However, on enquiring the SA said one still has to change oil at 5k!

I think Honda is being conservative and asking for services every 5k
That's right. If your service manual says 5k, I doubt if the service adviser will advise otherwise. However, please check if your service manual does indeed specify a 5k interval. Also if your car is old, it's likely to have been using mineral oil. If you switch to synthetic, you should be able to prolong the interval by at least another 5k. You can also try semi-synthetic oil as an intermediate solution to see the effect it has on your car and then decide if you want to go for a fully synthetic one. Semi-synthetic oil will cost marginally more than the mineral one and will still give you some benefits of a synthetic oil.

Also if you are switching from mineral to synthetic, please remember the first oil change interval will have to be shorter, as the new oil will probably get dirtier faster (because it will likely clean up some muck from the mineral oil).
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Old 18th July 2011, 07:46   #29
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Default Re: The 'Synthetic' Way: How Practical?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gansan View Post

So far as I have gleaned from the sites of oil mfrs themselves, synth oils provide considerably higher levels of protection as compared to mineral oils, but still have to be changed once a year even if the mileage is not completed.

That is why I feel if I stick to a good mineral oil (API SL) and change it every 5k Km or 6 months (even though the recommendation is 10k KM / 12 months), it will be good for my car as well as wallet. A caveat though ; if the owner's manual recommends a semi synth or synth grade, that must be adhered to. In my case it does not.

If synthetic oils can last 25k Km, can I keep them unchanged in my sump for five years? Because that is how long it will take me to complete 25k Km!

@dhanushs
The costs will significantly increase if the mfrs insist on a synthetic oil only. But they do give a choice of lesser priced semi-synth as well, don't they?
I agree. Indeed, given that my cars are mostly driven in adverse conditions - if you see most car manuals, you will find that normal indian city driving counts for that - regardless of kilometers run, I change the oil every 6 months. And I use a SM grade mineral oil. I believe that it is the grade that matters, and if I am not able to use the longevity of the synthetic, why spend the extra money on it?
All the above is subject to what each car's manual prescribes, if that prescription is more stringent.
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Old 18th July 2011, 14:03   #30
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Default Re: The 'Synthetic' Way: How Practical?

IMHO Synthetic OIL makes a difference because of :-

1. Better Engine maintenance, reduced vibration
2. Oil Change can be done after 15 k - 20 K running
3. Better fuel economy..improvement of 2 kmpl atleast

I have been using Mobile 1 Synthetic Engine OIL for last two years in my swift that has already driven 65000 kms, change of oil has made it more peppy, less vibration and better mileage. I earlier used to get 11.8 to 12.6 kmpl for city drive of around 70 kms (avg) per day, after the change of engine oil, the vehicle is returning around 14 to 14.5 kmpl.

The extra cost of the synthetic engine oil is offset against the better mileage and longer duration for the change of engine oil. http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/images...humbs%20up.gif I would like to ADD that the SA at *** has recommended this to me and before hand he has told me about the difference in experience with the synthetic engine oil as I needed lots of convincing before shelling out more money for it.
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