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Old 26th October 2011, 15:11   #256
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Default Re: Frustrated Etios owner places Ad with complaints

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Originally Posted by supremeBaleno View Post
BTW, someone mentioned "Indians" and I replied to that - I do not bring patriotism into cars because it is not connected. So maybe you should read up before making such baseless insinuations.
I am really glad for your post. I wanted to point out that it is Honda and Toyota who needs to learn from Suzuki without appearing biased.

People tend to associate reliability with number of KM covered. Outside India, with lack of dust and all, it is easy to add number of KM. In India, it is a different story with potholes, rain, dust and God knows what else.

I have a 16 years old Esteem, bought 2nd hand. It was made to carry heavy industrial goods, was thoroughly abused and never taken to a service center. Yet it performed so flawlessly, no rattling or whatsoever. It was only because its carburetor started giving problem and I didn't want to drive around in a 16 year old car so I got a new car. I still have not sold my Esteem. I still dream of getting minor things fixed and take it out for a spin again

Last edited by DevilsCry : 26th October 2011 at 15:19. Reason: adding one more line
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Old 26th October 2011, 15:20   #257
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Default Re: Frustrated Etios owner places Ad with complaints

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Originally Posted by DevilsCry View Post
I have a 16 years old Esteem, bought 2nd hand. It was made to carry heavy industrial goods, was thoroughly abused and never taken to a service center. Yet it performed so flawlessly, no rattling or whatsoever. It was only because its carburetor started giving problem and I didn't want to drive around in a 16 year old car so I got a new car. I still have not sold my Esteem. I still dream of getting minor things fixed and take it out for a spin again
Trust me the discussion was not about Maruti at all in the first place. Don't think that I am a maruti critic because I said Marutis do tend to rattle. I have owned a Maruti Omni for a good ten years and then a Maruti Zen for 2.3L kms. There is a lot of maruti in my blood too .

Lets focus on the car on hand from now on and avoid bringing in other manufacturers.
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Old 26th October 2011, 16:50   #258
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Default Re: Frustrated Etios owner places Ad with complaints

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Originally Posted by drmohitg
Till 2 years back the honda city was the best car you could buy. Suddenly the vento arrived and made it look so un-VFM.
Remove the Vento-D from the equation and then see how the stakes line up. Compare the VW petrol sold to the number of Japanese petrols sold (eg. City) and you will get a different angle to VFM.

Quote:
Originally Posted by drmohitg
Once again am highly disappointed that a senior member like yourself also choose to make that comment without reading this thread or the many more actual ownership threads of Etios/Liva on the forum. Whose car filled up with water exactly? Please let us know the details about that car.
I don't comment on any thread without reading the whole thread from beginning. The water incident was mentioned on this thread, so I guess you need to do some reading up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by drmohitg
As far as my blanket statement is concerned, you can interpret it as you like. Just once again go around this very own forum and make a mental point to note how many owners have problems with there Maruti, Tata, Fiat, Hyundai and Toyota. And that % is higher for the Maruti when you compare it with Toyota.
And you did a complete study of issues in cars of various makes and found that Toyota has lesser problems ??? We all love certain makes of cars, but this is taking things to an extreme.

Quote:
Originally Posted by drmohitg
Yes he said that we Indians will know more about reliability now with Honda and Toyota venturing into the A and B segments. Is it really offensive?
It is not offensive, but illogical. If Honda/Toyota were coming in when we were in the Amby/PAL period, this would make sense. But Indians already know what a reliable car means. I don't think Honda/Toyota is going to add anything more to this.
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Old 26th October 2011, 17:42   #259
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Default Re: Frustrated Etios owner places Ad with complaints

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Originally Posted by supremeBaleno View Post
I don't comment on any thread without reading the whole thread from beginning. The water incident was mentioned on this thread, so I guess you need to do some reading up.
So you believe that there is an issue with water entering the CABIN in the Etios?
All the ownership threads on the forum including the extensive review by the mods inculding GTO didn't find such an issue.

Quote:
And you did a complete study of issues in cars of various makes and found that Toyota has lesser problems ??? We all love certain makes of cars, but this is taking things to an extreme.
We can go on endlessly with this. Lets leave it here. I will stick to my opinion, you are free to stick to yours.

BTW have you disabled some setting or what? I didn't get a PM both the times you quoted my post.
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Old 26th October 2011, 18:22   #260
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I had been contemplating buying a Honda Jazz to replace my 2002 Alto-VX (Maruti discontinued the model long ago,it was the Alto with the Wagon R engine, though now they have the Alto-10K as a replacement). Since lot of anecdotal information is being quoted regarding Maruti car rattling and reliability(or lack thereof relative to Toyota and Honda), the car has done 60 K kms in 9 years, and no rattles till now.No major changes to any component except front axle bearings (CV Joints?) which I remember doing on my previous M-800 too(and that car was very rattly in just 6 years and 50 K) and just one Battery and Tyre set change.
I commute to work on my Bicycle and my yearly driving is now down to 3 K last year, of which 1.8 Km was on drives to Pondicherry/Ooty. Hence I was looking at a nice roomy petrol hatch which can carry a bike inside it if needed, and the Jazz fit the bill perfectly. Since the Honda Jazz waiting period seems to be increasing exponentially (maybe they use the same estimate algorithm as the Microsoft File transfer algo ;-) ), I started looking at alternatives, the Petrol Etios being one.
I test drove the Petrol Etios , and the ride quality (in terms of absorbing potholes, negotiating speedbreakers) and the torque ( experienced from the pulling power in start stop traffic) was definitely an improvement over the family Honda city I had driven over to the dealership in. Noise/vibration was definitely higher than the Honda city. After tracking this thread, I actually went into the Etios facebook page, All the Etios reviews in Team-Bhp and a few other forums. I also spoke to one Etios owner that I know personally. The two BIG concerns the owner had (and I see this theme on almost all forums)
1 Fuel Efficiency is very low- Most owners are reporting well below the ARAI figures--upto 50% lower. We all take ARAI figures with a pinch of salt, but such a huge difference is not easy to explain--on my Alto and other family Hondas , the FE is within a 20% band lower than ARAI quoted figures.
2 Vibration- This is physical vibration in the car, looks like damping is not proper. I am not referring to High speed tyre/engine noise which I can understand/live with.

I also read some reports that FE and Vibration are in a trade off zone--if you set the Idle speed lower, the FE goes up, but induces unacceptable vibration, tuning it higher reduces the FE.

Petrol Etios owners who are reading this thread, can they please comment on these two factors ?
Also any pointers to alternative cars given my low driving amounts and need to carry a bike ? The Upcoming Maruti Ertiga, Renault Duster seem like possibilities, but are too far off.
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Old 26th October 2011, 18:54   #261
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Default Re: Frustrated Etios owner places Ad with complaints

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Originally Posted by paragpatankar View Post
Also any pointers to alternative cars given my low driving amounts and need to carry a bike ? The Upcoming Maruti Ertiga, Renault Duster seem like possibilities, but are too far off.
I think you can also take a look at the Manza and Verito. Post the query in the what car section and also elaborate on your requirements including the budget. I am sure you will find many options to choose from. Happy car hunting and buying.
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Old 26th October 2011, 21:49   #262
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Dr Mohitg, you say you own an Innova. So no point argueing with you. You will never accept it. But I would reiterate, Scorpio IS better than Innova in all aspects. Infinitely better looks, lesser price, more powerful, higher top speed and better acceleration. Ok, I am not sure about FE. Innova may be a bit better here but Scorp won't be much off mark either. To me Innova means taxi or a big delievry van. Innova fans may be up in arms but I do not have to agree with them, do I? BTW, why do you try so hard to keep the Toyota flag flying. I own a Lancer and an A-Star but I do not say Lancer is the best sedan or A-Star is the best hatch. I own cars; not a stake in Mitsu or Suzuki, so why should I be killing myself argueing with everyone and trying to prove that they are the best.
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Old 26th October 2011, 22:49   #263
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Default Re: Frustrated Etios owner places Ad with complaints

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Originally Posted by DevilsCry View Post
Really? Just ask Honda or Toyota to make an 800 then discuss this topic again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by supremeBaleno View Post
In India, Suzuki has been leading the way when it comes to reliability, much before the other Japs and I think the latter need to learn up from the former.
Quote:
BTW, someone mentioned "Indians" and I replied to that
Let me clarify again guys, I had just expressed my expectation, that Indians, me included, are in for a real treat on reliability front with T & H badges beginning to offer cars at these affordable price points! My apologies guys, I did not word it properly... And no one has to agree with my expectations!

P.S. I have owned M800 for 15 years!

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Originally Posted by pgsagar View Post
Dr.Mohitg, You said give Toyota some time to sort out teething problems. Teething problems? On a Toyota? What's that? Don't we use those words on Tata cars? Are Toyotas also having teething problems these days? Then what's the difference between Tata and Toyota?
Actually speaking, what really are the major quality niggles with Etios?! The thread title is getting way too misleading!

Last edited by RadiantKarma : 26th October 2011 at 22:51.
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Old 27th October 2011, 00:26   #264
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Originally Posted by pgsagar View Post
Dr Mohitg, you say you own an Innova. So no point argueing with you. You will never accept it. But I would reiterate, Scorpio IS better than Innova in all aspects. Infinitely better looks, lesser price, more powerful, higher top speed and better acceleration. Ok, I am not sure about FE. Innova may be a bit better here but Scorp won't be much off mark either. To me Innova means taxi or a big delievry van. Innova fans may be up in arms but I do not have to agree with them, do I?
Price: Scorpio is better any day. Toyotas are a disaster that way. Totally not VFM if you are looking for gadgets in your car.
Looks: Subjective so that should never be a criterion in comparing cars.
Powerful and speed: I don't have the figures but I will still take your word for it. I myself am not comfortable taking my Innova above 100 on highways.
Now where the Innova scores:
Driveability: Definitely ahead. Scorpio has a very hard drive with very hard gears. I have driven one and thats my impression of it. Innova is extremely car like and you don't realise the size of the car while driving.
Seating: Has the best seats to seat 8 people in comfort. Even the last seat is good and better then any other car's including those above 20L.
Reliability: 80k kms and no niggles/rattles/or whatever they are called.

Quote:
BTW, why do you try so hard to keep the Toyota flag flying. I own a Lancer and an A-Star but I do not say Lancer is the best sedan or A-Star is the best hatch. I own cars; not a stake in Mitsu or Suzuki, so why should I be killing myself argueing with everyone and trying to prove that they are the best.
I do not. Even I do not own any stake in Toyota mate. This thread was started when there were problems reported in the Etios like clutch failures and water leakage etc. If you will see the first few pages of the thread you will not find a single post from me defending the car. But then one day I happened to go through the website that started this smear campaign and it was really really hilarious. Then I asked almost all Etios owners on this forum if they faced any of these issues but everyone was quite happy with there car. This is when I started posting in this thread to make people aware who have fallen prey to this campaign that the car does not suffer from those issues.

I have no interest in the car itself. But I will feel bad if someone looking for a Etios comes on this thread and gets a false impression about it when no such niggles exist. I neevr said its the best car or any of the ones I own. They are good if they suit your requirements. There can never be just 1 car which suits everyone right?

Last edited by drmohitg : 27th October 2011 at 00:28.
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Old 27th October 2011, 15:17   #265
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Default Re: Frustrated Etios owner places Ad with complaints

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Originally Posted by DevilsCry View Post
I have repeatedly went to different Toyota showrooms to repeatedly analyse Etios and test drove it again and again during my three month long booking. Your 4 hour checking during first time is nothing in comparison. I was impressed since I found it to be simply the best car in sub 14 lac category and I could not find any single problem at all.
.................................................. ................
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I would just say that if your Etios is free from problems then awesome! You have got simply the best car under 14 lac category IMO. A friend of mine took risk and just bought a Liva this Diwali. I will be closely following his reports since my next car is going to be an Etios (even though I cancelled my Etios booking barely two months ago).
Thanks mate for sharing your unbiased views despite your own disappointments with Toyota/Etios! When I tell my friends that, apart from refinement, it's the best car under 10 lakhs, they give me a long look! Some people on the forum also pounced on me when I dared to compare the car with Vento/Verna/City!

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Originally Posted by pgsagar View Post
So many pages devoted to an ugly car.
What DevilsCry has written in his above mentioned post is the reason that this 'ugly' will continue to be much written about!

Quote:
These days lines between qualities of rival brands are blurring. Toyota is slipping while others ( Indians like Tata/Mahindra ) are catching up. I feel Manza beats Etios on all fronts...
Sadly the lines are hardly blurring. I recently drove a Manza less than two years old and done ~30 k on the odo. Some of the car controls felt older than my 15 year old M800.

Quote:
Originally Posted by paragpatankar View Post
The two BIG concerns the owner had (and I see this theme on almost all forums)
1 Fuel Efficiency is very low- Most owners are reporting well below the ARAI figures--upto 50% lower. We all take ARAI figures with a pinch of salt, but such a huge difference is not easy to explain--on my Alto and other family Hondas , the FE is within a 20% band lower than ARAI quoted figures.
2 Vibration- This is physical vibration in the car, looks like damping is not proper. I am not referring to High speed tyre/engine noise which I can understand/live with.

I also read some reports that FE and Vibration are in a trade off zone--if you set the Idle speed lower, the FE goes up, but induces unacceptable vibration, tuning it higher reduces the FE.

Petrol Etios owners who are reading this thread, can they please comment on these two factors ?
Also any pointers to alternative cars given my low driving amounts and need to carry a bike ? The Upcoming Maruti Ertiga, Renault Duster seem like possibilities, but are too far off.
My quick response:
I get mileage of ~13 in the city with normal driving and AC on. Mild vibrations - only at idle - (marginally higher than that in the City) bother me a bit. But my wife keeps telling that I am too sensitive and she can't even detect the vibrations! And no, you cannot trade-off between the vibrations and FE at your will. The fuel injector setting is ECU driven and you've got to take what Toyota offers.
For more details, pl. do create a separate car search thread.
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Old 27th October 2011, 17:34   #266
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One of my relatives has a petrol Etios , and he found no problem in it . I also drove the car for 10 minutes or so , below are things which i felt about the Etios .

- Engine is refined , no vibrations at all on low speed and as well as on idle
- Seats are very comfortable
- Very good and chunky steering to hold
- Gearshift are smooth
- Lot of leg space for front and for rear passengers as well

He told me that he is getting 14 km/ltr average in local i.e Faridabad to New Delhi and he is doing up down daily on an average . He did one long route as well to Agra and got an average of 22 km/ltr .

Last edited by Safari_Beast : 27th October 2011 at 17:35. Reason: spelling mistake
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Old 28th October 2011, 01:16   #267
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Originally Posted by amalji View Post
1) Drive the Dzire, take it to 100 kmph, try slamming the brakes. Do the same on the Etios. If you are an experienced driver, you will understand, what I mean by poor braking in the Swift/Dzire.
I have my experiences of the brake problems and I have disussed and verified with other ETIOS drivers.
Quote:
2) For people whom looks matter more than functionality, Etios is not the car to go for. For people, who look for functionality and practicality above looks n style, with the hassle free ownership experience of Toyota, Etios is a great car.
Had I involved in atleast 10 minutes of talk ( forget test drive ) with you before you bought this car, I would have recommended another car for you. Etios is not the car for people who are too concerned about NVH. Literally every review on the internet mentioned NVH as its weak points. And I find it amusing that you did not notice it in your TDs. I've driven atleast 5 Etios Petrol cars at different showrooms and on all of them NVH was noticeable. A car becomes a good car or bad car depending on the requirements of the owner. For you, Etios might be a bad car.
By saying and agreeing that Toyota ETIOS has higher NVH which means Toyota ETIOS has higher Noise, Vibration and Harshness, then what is the difference in Toyota Car and Tata Truck. I have spent extra money for Tyoota Engineering, I knew that the car is very dull from interiors point of view and the shape is also OK sort. The centre speeedometer console was also ignored, even the poor quality of fabrics or matting used in ETIOS was also ignored hoping that Toyota ETIOS will be a quite car.
Actually my 11 years old wagon R is very much silent as compared to latest technology of Toyota ETIOS.
This is shameful for the Toyota ETIOS engineering team. I want Toyota to understand that we Indians understand Quality and want the full value for our hard earned money.

Quote:
If you are not sure about what you are talking, please refrain from making comments. I've talked with many senior engineers including Maruti Service Masters ( Cochin ) Director - Rajan Varghese. Even though he is not a fan of the NVH in the Etios, he mentioned that the gasket design in Etios is quite normal and is used in many cars. He mentioned that it's not at all a design flaw and not to worry about that.
I talked about the same with another friend of mine who owns an Innova. He told that even on his Innova, it's the same. ( But, I haven't verified this myself. So, I'm not too sure about it )
1) As team-bhp reviewer @Vid and many other members including me have confirmed, the gaskets are NOT missing on the Etios. It's on the door trims and not on the doors. A Little knowledge can sometimes be dangerous than zero knowledge.
2) When did Honda City, Corolla and Lancer become the best cars in the world ? That's news to me.
3) Please don't think that the Toyota Engineers who designed the gaskets are fools. This is a common design used in many cars around the world ( confirmed by a Maruti engineer )
Please go and check Innova or any small car from any manufacturer for the weather gaskets.IT IS PRESENT IN ALL CARS EVEN NANO, MARUTI 800.
I respect your individuality and expect the same in return. I would request you to refrain from using non respectful language.
I am here only to discuss the problems being faced as an ETIOS owner. I do not have anything personal with you.
I am here for a purpose to voice my issues. If you have any ETIOS issue join my voice or else you can voice your concerns without passing remarks on me.
Let me again reiterate that I have spent my hard earned money for buying this Toyota ETIOS and I have all the right to share my experiences.
Toyota ETIOS has the design flaw of missing weather gaskets because the design was copied from Mahindra Renault Logan which has a modification in doors to accommodate the use of half weather gaskets. But in Toyota ETIOS, the Toyota ETIOS Engineers missed the catch and copied the design from Logan and also missed the crucial weather gaskets.
It becomes very embarrassing to invite someone in my car and you find the doors are all dirty because of missing gasket. It becomes a big humiliation for the owner and also the Toyota Motor Corporation Japan.
TKM is sitting silent, actually they should defend the missing weather gasket. But the TKM is just ignoring the fact and taking help of internet reviews to suppress the issue to AVOID RECALL.But the people who are suffering after spending 8L will not spare Toyota for this.
Today the customers are not together , but the day all join together Toyota will be in big deep trouble.
The Toyota customers are from all good backgrounds and once the lawyers and the legal community joins together Toyota will realize the loss of ignoring common customers woes.The TRUTH must prevail.
Quote:
If you genuinely have a problem, I'll come with you to Toyota showroom, talk with them, record the conversations and see what they do about it, and then post the result in the forum. I'm talking about the issues mentioned like braking, and pick up, not the NVH because that's part and parcel of Etios.
If you are serious and willing to help, please find enclosed the service report of the Galaxy Toyota formed during the inspections by TKM Engineers.
How can you ignore the Noise, Vibration and Harshness from the engine in a new Toyota car with latest technology and specifically launched in India and then to the rest of the world.
OR else the Toyota wants to test the vehicle by selling vehicles to Indians and then improve the Quality based on the feedback of poor customers and then modify the car and import the car to other parts of the world. This can save lot of money for Toyota.
Quote:
Are you saying that GTO's excellent review on Etios Petrol was done by non-technical brain ? Having read posts by GTO and the posts by Mr. Munish all around the internet, I'll trust GTO more than Mr. Munish 100 out of 100 times.
I agree that I do not stand in front of GTO or any member of Team BHP because they have been the basic education fro this branch of automobiles and are into the evaluation and review writing for long.
I am only a user who was driving his wagon R for 11 years for 1L kilometer and now when I bought Toyota ETIOS, I am suffering because of excessive Noise, Vibration from Engine and road. The weather gaskets issue - TKM must reply and I can again prove them wrong. Let us hear it from the horse's mouth.
I have problems in my ETIOS and unless Toyota does something for me I will keep on writing and writing.
Please visit my website to know more facts.
Quote:
Q-Class gives performance, comfort and space compromising on the over-engineered aspects of a car. That was a concept that Toyota tried out. If they can add Refinement ( NVH ) and looks to it, that would make the Etios the best seller. But, how successful they can be at doing that without shooting up the price further needs to be seen.
Firstly, if owners defend a bad post on their car, it means there is indeed customer loyalty for Etios.
Quote:
With all due respect, I feel that this thread is useless and needs to be closed. All claims here seem to have been made without any grounds (whether complaints or not-complaints). It is not up to T-BHP quality mark.
As you righly said about Q-class Is Noise, Vibration and harshness not related to performance and comfort of the car and passengers. If yes then Toyota Q class has only SPACE.Please RETHINK!
You are also right in suggesting that NVH will be definitely reduced because every time I go for servicing Toyota ETIOS, the customer relation people come and ask me about the problems in my ETIOS. Based on my answers they form a FAQ-Frequently Asked Question leaflet and then start answering all the customers with their limited knowledge. All the customers almost raise the same questions, but since the customers do not come in contact they think that the Toyota CRM is RIGHT and may be they are wrong.
I also experienced the same. I bought my vehicle on 24.02.2011 and it is almost 8 months ownership now.

I can really feel the urge from two fellow members to close this discussion, but is this for the benefit of Toyota? I would like to ask amalji and drmohitg.

Please review Galaxy Toyota Job cards and the Toyota ETIOS missing weather gaskets photograph clicked at the same time. From outside and after opening the door.
This dust accumulation will not happen in any car-any budget-any make-any segment-any size-any brand.
But it will be dirty in Toyota ETIOS.
Attached Thumbnails
Frustrated Etios owner places Ad with complaints-reporthc-28.05.2011.jpg  

Frustrated Etios owner places Ad with complaints-reportpc-28.05.2011.jpg  

Frustrated Etios owner places Ad with complaints-outside.jpg  

Frustrated Etios owner places Ad with complaints-etios-missing-weather-gasket2.jpg  


Last edited by Amartya : 28th October 2011 at 08:39. Reason: Corrected a quoted post. Cheers.
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Old 28th October 2011, 03:16   #268
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Munish myetios
Please review Galaxy Toyota Job cards and the Toyota ETIOS missing weather gaskets photograph clicked at the same time. From outside and after opening the door.
This dust accumulation will not happen in any car-any budget-any make-any segment-any size-any brand.
But it will be dirty in Toyota ETIOS.
I don't know about the NVH levels of your vehicle in particular, but after looking at the pictures I think the location of the weather seal/gasket is poor design. I don't think Toyota can possibly be saving much from this placement, hence it appears to be bad design, plain and simple.

And I can understand the frustration an Etios owner would feel at having to open and clean each door sill separately after having the car washed. This would either mean allowing water spray to enter the vehicle, or wiping that area with a damp cloth leading to scratches and deterioration of paint finish.

And before anyone says that this area is not really visible, let's remind ourselves that we have scuff plates installed at the bottom of the door sills to prevent scuffing from the feet of passengers entering or leaving the vehicle, so this is a big deal IMHO.

Last edited by VeluM : 28th October 2011 at 03:19.
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Old 28th October 2011, 03:44   #269
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I think Munish has a genuine problem with his Etios NVH levels and this has been acknowledged by the Toyota service technicians, as per the job cards. Also, I do think he has a valid point about the dust accumulating due to the faulty design of the door. IMO, toyota will do well to heed such customer feedback and rectify the same at the earliest.

As Munish has rightly pointed out, people are fine with its drab looks, and no frills stance, however there cannot be a compromise on functionality, and increased NVH or poor design need to be attended to.
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Old 28th October 2011, 08:43   #270
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Munish myetios View Post
By saying and agreeing that Toyota ETIOS has higher NVH which means Toyota ETIOS has higher Noise, Vibration and Harshness, then what is the difference in Toyota Car and Tata Truck.
I can understand your frustration but lets keep such comparisons away to have any meaningful discussion. You haven't really sat in a Tata truck have you?

Quote:
It becomes very embarrassing to invite someone in my car and you find the doors are all dirty because of missing gasket. It becomes a big humiliation for the owner and also the Toyota Motor Corporation Japan.
From your pictures it really looks ugly mate. This is a serious design flaw. I doubt Toyota will do anything about this other then may be adding the gaskets on the door. In that case you might get the gaskets fixed from the dealer. Till then I think you have very little choice but to live with this defect.

Quote:
Please visit my website to know more facts.
You should try and keep your website a little more clean. When I last visited the site, I read many complaints which were really very amateurish at best like customer complaining about one reverse light not functioning. Such comments take away all the credibility out of your effort.

Quote:
I can really feel the urge from two fellow members to close this discussion, but is this for the benefit of Toyota? I would like to ask amalji and drmohitg.
Now lets not get personal. I asked for this when you choose to not reply for almost a month ( and more) when asked to tell about your problems. Also if owners of the car like you will not update the thread, then the thread just goes into an un-necessary debate between Toyota fans and others which becomes very childish and obscure.

So what did they Toyota people do since they acknowledged the extra NVH levels in your car? BTW have you got an underbody coating done? Its supposed to help reducing the NVH and if you haven't got it, may be you can ask the dealer to do it for free citing your issues with the car.
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