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Old 18th November 2011, 22:38   #316
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Originally Posted by rameshnanda View Post
If single wiper is better than two, I am just wondering why does Toyota didn't implement this in Innova's and Corolla's .
Dual arm Single wiper is a very much debated design. If I apply the same logic of your question, Mercedes uses dual arm single wipers on some of its models while Maruti 800 uses dual wipers. What does that infer ? It doesn't infer anything because both designs has its own merits and demerits. I've already discussed about this on the Etios Petrol review thread. So, do not want to repeat myself here.

With regards to the effectiveness of the dual-arm single wipers, I like it due to the following reasons.
  1. Larger sweep area
  2. No crossing marks of the 2nd wiper on the middle of the windscreen.

Last edited by amalji : 18th November 2011 at 22:42.
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Old 18th November 2011, 22:44   #317
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Default Re: Frustrated Etios owner places Ad with complaints

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Originally Posted by amalji View Post
Single wiper is a very much debated design. If I apply the same logic of your question, Mercedes uses dual arm single wipers on some of its models while Maruti 800 uses dual wipers. What does that infer ? It doesn't infer anything because both designs has its own merits and demerits. I've already discussed about this on the Etios Petrol review thread. So, do not want to repeat myself here.

With regards to the effectiveness of the dual-arm single wipers, I like it due to the following reasons.
  1. Larger sweep area
  2. No crossing marks of the 2nd wiper on the middle of the windscreen.
I personally don't like the single wiper design. It's not to my taste. But, if you are happy with this, then its absolutely fine. After all, we should be happy with the car we own. This is the most important point .
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Old 18th November 2011, 22:52   #318
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Originally Posted by rameshnanda View Post
I personally don't like the single wiper design. It's not to my taste. But, if you are happy with this, then its absolutely fine. After all, we should be happy with the car we own. This is the most important point .
I too didn't like it when I went to see the vehicle for the first time. My first thought was "Why the hell did Toyota do such cheap cost cutting measures ?" But I interacted with a knowledgeable customer on one of my later visits, and he told me that this wiping mechanism ( if implemented properly ) is even better than the dual wipers. So, when I took the test drive next time, the first thing I tested was the wipers, and I was very happy with it. If you want to do a comparison, I would recommend that you compare the % of unwiped area on the Etios, with the % of unwiped area on another car.

Last edited by amalji : 18th November 2011 at 23:03.
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Old 18th November 2011, 22:59   #319
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Default Re: Frustrated Etios owner places Ad with complaints

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Originally Posted by amalji View Post
I too didn't like it when I went to see the vehicle for the first time. My first thought was "Why the hell did Toyota do such cheap cost cutting measures ?" But I interacted with a knowledgeable customer on one of my later visits, and he told me that this wiping mechanism ( if implemented properly ) is even better than the dual wipers. So, when I took the test drive next time, the first thing I tested was the wipers, and I was very happy with it. If you want to do a comparison, I would recommend that you calculate the % of unwiped area on the Etios, with the % of unwiped area on another car.
+1 to this. Even i tried this once, and found that there is a small area near top left part of the windscreen (When u look from inside the car) that is not swept. Rest of the windscreen is very well wiped by this single wiper.
I have seen dual wipers which leave unwiped areas at top left corner as well as the top center part (In the middle).
Also, single wiper in Etios family is bigger in size and pretty sturdy. So no worries about the performance. I have not tried it in very very heavy rains of Kerala yet, and will post my observation when i am able to do so.
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Old 18th November 2011, 23:38   #320
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Default Re: Frustrated Etios owner places Ad with complaints

Quote:
Originally Posted by rameshnanda View Post
If single wiper is better than two, I am just wondering why does Toyota didn't implement this in Innova's and Corolla's .
+1 to that , maybe we will be educated on that too by the Toyota enthusiasts.

I see that the forum has very cerebral members ( and I am not tying to be disparaging) and it's obvious Munish has grievances and even though his manner of putting them is decidedly extravagant, some of them are indeed genuine and you have to cut through the flab and just accept them.

At the same time, I can see the owner's of the car defending them to the hilt and how is it that they are not exaggerating big T's perceived virtues? I see a lot of "mountain out of mole hill comment, which I believe goes either way.

From my experience I can say that after learning about Liva getting launched, we got excited about it and promptly went to Ravindu Toyota (near lifestyle banaglore) to find out more on price, specifications, launch date etc and I was the receiving end of the coldest ever welcome. This when I was a prospective customer and I dread to think what would happen if I were to become a customer. But then I went to Nandi and my experience was much different. So the bottom line is that Toyota does not offer consistent service experience either. So lets take this virtue of theirs too with a pinch of salt, just like we take the flaws being reported by Munish.
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Old 19th November 2011, 00:36   #321
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Originally Posted by wickedchauhan View Post
+1 to that , maybe we will be educated on that too by the Toyota enthusiasts.
Already educated. If you read through the posts after that, you might get what you need.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wickedchauhan View Post
At the same time, I can see the owner's of the car defending them to the hilt and how is it that they are not exaggerating big T's perceived virtues? I see a lot of "mountain out of mole hill comment, which I believe goes either way.
It's because I was one of the many people misguided by Mr. Munish's website which I do not even want to name while researching on this car. I thought about going ahead with my Swift booking only for the negative comments on his website. But, thanks to a very respected automobile enthusiast working in Maruti and a personal friend of mine, I was able to stick with the right decision.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wickedchauhan View Post
From my experience I can say that after learning about Liva getting launched, we got excited about it and promptly went to Ravindu Toyota (near lifestyle banaglore) to find out more on price, specifications, launch date etc and I was the receiving end of the coldest ever welcome. This when I was a prospective customer and I dread to think what would happen if I were to become a customer.
I totally agree with you here ( with regards to the customer focus of Toyota Sales division ). When genuine points are made, I've no issues agreeing to it. I got the same cold blooded attitude at Toyota ( certain showrooms ) as well. I had mentioned about that on some of my tweets as well. I'll give more description about their attitude when I start my ownership thread on the Etios.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wickedchauhan View Post
But then I went to Nandi and my experience was much different. So the bottom line is that Toyota does not offer consistent service experience either. So lets take this virtue of theirs too with a pinch of salt, just like we take the flaws being reported by Munish.
Munish is extra ordinary. Cannot think of anything similar to that
Coming to the point, generally the feedback, I get regarding Toyota after sales is good. It's because of the process and methods in place, as well as the training they give for their employees. My first time visit to the service center was a very satisfying experience. I'm someone who sets very high expectations on service because I've been pampered by Maruti service Masters and MASS for 12 years now.

Last edited by amalji : 19th November 2011 at 00:46.
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Old 19th November 2011, 00:37   #322
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Default Re: Frustrated Etios owner places Ad with complaints

Quote:
Originally Posted by wickedchauhan View Post

From my experience I can say that after learning about Liva getting launched, we got excited about it and promptly went to Ravindu Toyota (near lifestyle banaglore) to find out more on price, specifications, launch date etc and I was the receiving end of the coldest ever welcome. This when I was a prospective customer and I dread to think what would happen if I were to become a customer. But then I went to Nandi and my experience was much different. So the bottom line is that Toyota does not offer consistent service experience either. So lets take this virtue of theirs too with a pinch of salt, just like we take the flaws being reported by Munish.
My experience is completely different. It was pleasant except for a last minute hick up which was sorted out and the commitment was fulfilled.

If you have read my thread about my service experience. I was very disappointed with the scratch on the dashboard. I had brought this to the notice of the delear/A*S*S. I had not complained about it.

They have voluntarily offered me to get the car back to the A*S*S and they are willing to check if it can be polished and brought back to its originality or they are ready to replace the entire dashboard free of cost.

Now tell which other manufacturer (apart from TATA/FIAT) who would do this. If this is a corrective approach taken by Toyota, I am at loss of words which would.

I have quite a bit of experience with Maruti. They dont even accept their mistake forget about repairing and replacing.

I would rate Toyota anyday better than the others in the market.

My Liva isn;t a million bucks to be given preferrential treatment.

Note: I completely agree that they should have been careful at the first place not to inflict damage. But if it happens, and the voluntarily correct it, it is a welcome move.

I do have a garden at home, with quite a few species living in it. None has been found inside the car yet. May be they dont like my LIVA.

Guys, continue on the debate. Its been a very refreshing after a stressful day at work.

Last edited by nkrishnap : 19th November 2011 at 00:39.
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Old 19th November 2011, 00:50   #323
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Smile Re: Frustrated Etios owner places Ad with complaints

Quote:
Originally Posted by nkrishnap View Post
I do have a garden at home, with quite a few species living in it. None has been found inside the car yet. May be they dont like my LIVA.

Guys, continue on the debate. Its been a very refreshing after a stressful day at work.
Maybe, we need to place cheese and cakes inside the '25mm gap' between door and door trims.
Some of the reasonings given in here are indeed stress relievers.

Last edited by amalji : 19th November 2011 at 00:51.
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Old 19th November 2011, 10:50   #324
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Default Re: Frustrated Etios owner places Ad with complaints

As an Etios owner, I'm relieved that this thread is down to discussing aesthetic aspect of weather gasket as against far more serious issue of water leakage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rameshnanda View Post
If single wiper is better than two, I am just wondering why does Toyota didn't implement this in Innova's and Corolla's .
As an alleged Etios fanboi, I'd take dual wipers over single wiper. I've stated the reason several times on various threads including this thread. The single wiper takes a little longer to clean driver-side windshield. While it's manageable, it requires extra care on the part of the driver during heavy rain especially when it's dark.

Quote:
Originally Posted by joslicx View Post
Looks like Munish does have a very valid point here gentlemen. So instead of ridiculing him, I think we should think on the lines of helping him find a solution.
Everyone acknowledged his problem when he finally brought it out on the forum. Only it's his tendency for hyperbole that gives rise to hilarious situations. Sample these from his last post alone

Quote:
Toyota can only modify the shapes keeping the same engine and can not develop new models.
???

Quote:
There is no point in buying Toyota ETIOS which makes all sorts of noises and vibrations like auto Rickshaw.
Earlier he compared with State transport bus. Then Tata truck. What next?!

Quote:
As you agree that Toyota ETIOS ride quality is not good.
Poor amalji was only agreeing that Logan has a better ride quality. And he distorted it completely!

For the record, Etios has struck the sweetest spot of balanced ride quality and decent handling behaviour among all sedans and spacious hatches of Japanese / Korean / Indian descent (includes City, Verna, SX4, DZire, Manza, Jazz, i20). What exactly does Munish want?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nkrishnap View Post
I do have a garden at home, with quite a few species living in it. None has been found inside the car yet. May be they dont like my LIVA.


My note to Toyota (In case it is going through this thread)
  1. It's ok to indulge in cost-cutting while retaining the fundamentals of the car, which are largely brilliant. However, to really broadbase the car's appeal, a large number of buyers look for certain minimum level of feel-good factor. For that, improve the interiors to some extent, take a little better care of NVH level consistency, and provide that extra weather gasket.
  2. Some quality niggles seem to be cropping up in a few cases. I hope you are taking care of your famed quality practices. The customer will not accept quality niggles from a Toyota.
  3. Someone on this forum mentioned that the rear seat is hinged on the body with some plastic material. This can be unsafe for rear occupants in case of an impact. Please do not compromise with basic safety.
  4. Toyota to me is user-friendly cars apart from reliability. The single wiper is compromising with this very important aspect. Get dual wipers whenever you bring new version.
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Old 19th November 2011, 13:45   #325
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RadiantKarma View Post
As an alleged Etios fanboi, I'd take dual wipers over single wiper. I've stated the reason several times on various threads including this thread. The single wiper takes a little longer to clean driver-side windshield. While it's manageable, it requires extra care on the part of the driver during heavy rain especially when it's dark.
Haven't tried it on heavy rain in the dark. But, I've tried it in heavy Kerala monsoons during daylight and found it quite adequate. The advantage of the larger sweep area and the lack of distraction at the center made be appreciate this design. Will try it out in the dark when I get a chance to.
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Old 19th November 2011, 14:25   #326
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Default Re: Frustrated Etios owner places Ad with complaints

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Originally Posted by amalji View Post
Haven't tried it on heavy rain in the dark. But, I've tried it in heavy Kerala monsoons during daylight and found it quite adequate. The advantage of the larger sweep area and the lack of distraction at the center made be appreciate this design. Will try it out in the dark when I get a chance to.
Fully agree with the positives you've brought out about single wiper. But since critical situation can arise more in the dark during heavy rains, my overall preference to the conventional dual wipers.

Given a chance, I'd take single wiper for daytime and dual wiper for the night! Will Toyota be magnanimous to provide such an advanced system - in Etios!?
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Old 19th November 2011, 14:58   #327
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Everyone acknowledged his problem when he finally brought it out on the forum. Only it's his tendency for hyperbole that gives rise to hilarious situations. Sample these from his last post alone
Excellent post. For a future Etios owner, this post should put at ease any qualms he/she has.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RadiantKarma View Post
Earlier he compared with State transport bus. Then Tata truck. What next?!

That's the problem with Munish - his problem might be genuine but he makes it sound as if he's bought a lemon & the product itself is a complete disaster, which certainly it isn't. And if I a fellow forum member can get tired of his repetitively same statement/post(s), then I wonder what would be the condition of the Toyota service advisor(s) who attend to his car.

Even his blog is highly misleading - instead of showcasing the basic issues of NVH & improper design of gaskets, it focuses more on Etios-bashing. Quite a pity, as if by chance a Toyota engineer/Quality team decides to have a look at the site, they might completely ignore the basic problem(s) and believe it to be a Etios-bashing sites.

Amalji/RadiantKarma - as a close friend of soon to-be owner of Liva(D) I look forward to more posts from you guys on how the car fares as the kms are clocked.
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Old 19th November 2011, 17:54   #328
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Originally Posted by ninjatalli View Post
Amalji/RadiantKarma - as a close friend of soon to-be owner of Liva(D) I look forward to more posts from you guys on how the car fares as the kms are clocked.
I'm loving the car for the moment. You can expect an ownership thread by the first week of December. Let me know, if he needs any tips on driving/using the Etios Diesel. Happy to help.
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Old 19th November 2011, 17:54   #329
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Originally Posted by wickedchauhan View Post
From my experience I can say that after learning about Liva getting launched, we got excited about it and promptly went to Ravindu Toyota (near lifestyle banaglore) to find out more on price, specifications, launch date etc and I was the receiving end of the coldest ever welcome. This when I was a prospective customer and I dread to think what would happen if I were to become a customer. But then I went to Nandi and my experience was much different. So the bottom line is that Toyota does not offer consistent service experience either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by amalji View Post
I totally agree with you here ( with regards to the customer focus of Toyota Sales division ). When genuine points are made, I've no issues agreeing to it. I got the same cold blooded attitude at Toyota ( certain showrooms ) as well. I had mentioned about that on some of my tweets as well. I'll give more description about their attitude when I start my ownership thread on the Etios.
Quote:
My first time visit to the service center was a very satisfying experience. I'm someone who sets very high expectations on service because I've been pampered by Maruti service Masters and MASS for 12 years now.
I too found the sales division of Uttam Toyota polite but cold (I've mentioned about this in my ownership thread too). I was a little concerned about how they would be once the money is paid. However, my fears have been assuaged as the A.S.S. experience has been good so far.

Not sure if overall Toyota A.S.S. setup is good, even though have generally heard good words about it. In any case, I'd rather have a good A.S.S. setup and poor Sales pitch than the other way around!

Makes me wonder wishfully - maybe just like the styling of its cars, is Understatement the leitmotif of entire Toyota system? Time will reveal.

Last edited by RadiantKarma : 19th November 2011 at 18:19.
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Old 21st November 2011, 10:37   #330
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Default Re: Frustrated Etios owner places Ad with complaints

Hey Guys,

Just a quick update on 10k service of my Etios (p). Total cost 1100 bucks. Will scan and post the bill copy. Engine seems to be freed up more (has become smoother and NVH lower) after the oil and filter change.
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