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Old 3rd October 2011, 15:18   #106
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Default Re: MSIL factory strike: Workers deliberately sabotaging the quality of cars.

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Originally Posted by .sushilkumar View Post
^^^+1 to what you said above . Mr Suzuki want the workers to follow everything Japanese way but accept the salaries in Indian currency with no or little HR benefit's .

No doubt i think their CEO is a arrogant man with no or little respect for the workers who are working like robots day and night. Somehow i feel that we are slowly becoming a capitalistic economy .
Sushil, not getting into the boost in economics and employment that recent opportunities brought to our country, I'd advice you to refer to what outsourcing has done to us and what it means in today's date. If not for it (and of course, for lesser salaries as compared to Japan / US etc), the unemployment rate would be out of control, leave alone the repercussions.

It ain't no harm if they want their workers to follow the standard quality norms while still making money in rupees - remember, they are still making money and are above the rest of the 70% below poverty line in our nation.

I see a lot has been said about the time punch being a second or two delayed - where do you draw the line? Whatever log-in time you set, do you expect a few seconds buffer to be there? What's the point then? Let's the workers come in at whatever time they want and complete their shift hours and go back - ain't that simpler?
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Old 3rd October 2011, 15:30   #107
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Default Re: Whats happening at Manesar?

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While I see an overflowing concern and sympathy towards the pitiful life workers endure, haven't they been at any liberty to reconsider their options in the last 5-6 years than slogging at the same salary and benefits at the mercy of the biggest car manufacturing firm in the country?
The worker level people, at least in India, do not reconsider their options after they join a company. The reason is that the supply side of employment market is still very high compared to demand side. So any one leaving a job at a shop floor can consider himself jobless for the near future, unlike in western markets, where the job market is more dynamic(relatively). In fact, you can say that the employees pledge their future with the company when they join. So the employers are straightaway at an advantage here

The labour laws in our country are a major reason why the employees don't get compensation commensurate with the company's growth , but then the employee unions are themselves to blame for having no progress on that front. Anyway, the merits and demerits of exit policies are beyond the scope of forum

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I am sure the management at Maruti isn't stupid either to formulate or not revise their policies in such a way that it impacts production / revenue to the extent it has this time around. Remember, policies are made keeping norms in mind not exceptions. If the worker's demands are not in line with the business strategy, it is only right on Maruti's part to take corrective actions. Not to forget, they could get a fair amount of new joiners in the due time who were apparently ready to work with the current compensation and benefit norms.
Yes you are right about the fact that Maruti management is not stupid about formulating policies. However since what exactly happened inside is anybody's guess, we cannot side with Maruti and say they are right in taking corrective action. If the actions taken by Maruti is right, then the morale of the employees and thus productivity at the plant will improve. But, if not, then as Gansan said in his earlier post the issue may raise itself up again.

Till date Maruti was operating in a growing market and they could wait till the employees blinked, but with market slowing down and competition hotting up, they will not have the freedom next time

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Let's not forget that all the measures Maruti has taken are for the benefit of the end consumer - us, so that we get a quality product for the hard earned money we spent.
Now, here I can disagree quite easily. It was for the benefit of the stakeholders in the company, right? I dont have any doubt about the quality, but the current events were rightly or wrongly due to management actions

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Now you can either choose to feel sympathetic towards the workers and call it their right to sabotage the quality of product / or go on a strike to delay the delivery of your car. I am hating the wait and I am sure so are you.
Since I dont know whether workers sabotaged the product or not, but I hope Maruti addresses the problems proactively. And what I feel is that, the issue may not be unique to Maruti, but to the whole manufacturing sector which may soon face such issues
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Old 3rd October 2011, 15:33   #108
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Default Re: MSIL factory strike: Workers deliberately sabotaging the quality of cars.

Dear zzzehar

I too work in one such outsourced company working for various clients. If i am coming late to office, i am not conned of my salary .what mgmt expect from me is that i will work designated 9 hours in office . if a worker is coming 2 second late , he should be expected to compensate the co for those 2 second rather than co cutting his half days wage. what about rest of 4 hours that he worked for free to co in such scenario's. there are lot many other things which they need to consider before putting workers under such stress .

So clearly a line is drawn in above scenario. Your in / out time from premises decides your working hours. no grey area here and what about people going to washrooms with their lunches / tea cup;s in hand.

I am sure that since strike is over now, every worker will be forced to stretch his working hours to min 14-16 hours a day to cover for previous month.

What about policies of MSIL , where they get more if they work over time . so MSIL itself is promoting over time. is that legal?? workers has increased the output to 125 % of the installed capacity, where is that extra earned by MSIL. that goes to parent MSIL and workers, they continue to struggle, trying both ends meets.

Additionally 70% of the labor is contractual. why ???? when rules clearly says that it should be used for meet emergencies scenarios and short term labor needs only .
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Old 3rd October 2011, 18:03   #109
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Default Re: Whats happening at Manesar?

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Originally Posted by .sushilkumar View Post
Well that;s what the ground truth is . MSIL knows that the workers cannot live on their savings for too long and will have to budge sooner or later. they were just bidding their time .
Yes , it;s a success but till how far this remains is some thing which i will be interested in seeing. it might be a capital V for Mr bhargava but i suspect if it will stay like that for long .
The views are OK and both the management and workers must restrain themselves not to exceed each other limits.
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All the profits getting generated are going back to parent suzuki and share holders, worker doesn;t get even a pat on their back for good works leave alone decent payments, specially so when more than half of the workers are contractual labor.
MSIL cannot repatriate money like you say "All the profits getting generated are going back to parent suzuki and share holders", to parent Suzuki beyond their equity holding. Suzuki holds a certain percentage of equity in MSIL and dividends are paid commensurate with the quantum of shareholding. Please get your facts right before you make such sweeping statements.
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The unrest happens when flow from top is not smooth . if we expect the workers to work like slaves than i am extremely sorry my friend. we are living in modern time not in British era.
Another sweeping statement!I have studied a Sr management Course management in MDI, Gurgaon very recently and know the facts at Gurgaon and Manesar quite well, as many of my Professors go for consultancy there. This belt is becoming quite notorious as far as labour unrest is concerned.
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there is very thin line between discipline and in discipline. You need to visit the ground zero before saying that MSIL is correct here. I found their management to be a bunch of high profile arrogant / egoistic and useless people who has no respect for those very people , on whose basis they are earning everything.
I beg to disagree here. If the workers sabotage the quality of a product its like biting the hand that feeds.This is cowardice and nothing else! There are faults on both sides but saying that the management is so and so is not called for.
It cannot be true that all the managements at Honda Motorcycle Scooters India Ltd ,Hero Honda ( now Hero Motocop) and Honda SIEL and many other auto ancillary units in this belt are all " bunch of high profile arrogant / egoistic and useless people who has no respect for those very people , on whose basis they are earning everything" .Another very sweeping and biased statement. I beg to totally disagree.
Lastly, I would again say that both sides viz. the management and the workers should exercise restraints not cross their limits. The management must be quite cordial and also hear the contract worker's woes from time to time, try to resolve grievances, make them work decently and also have wage agreements, revising wages every year. The contract workers must be more devoted and do their duties in an unblemished way, diligently and keep the company's flag flying high.

Last edited by anjan_c2007 : 3rd October 2011 at 18:28.
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Old 3rd October 2011, 18:20   #110
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Default Re: MSIL factory strike: Workers deliberately sabotaging the quality of cars.

Although all the profits are not going to Suzuki , a sizeable amount is going to Suzuki in the form of royalty payments - and this is beyond the dividend payout to Suzuki as a shareholder :

Royalty payments, higher input costs dent Maruti Suzuki - Money - DNA

On the subject of sabotage by the MSIL workers , here's an extract from the previous Tehelka report Tehelka - India's Independent Weekly News Magazine

Throughout the current crisis, the company has had on its side the police, the labour commissioner, the politicians, its bouncers as well as most of the media. On 28 August, Maruti Suzuki called a large police backup inside its Manesar plant and suspended 21 workers on charges of “sabotaging production and deliberately causing quality problems”, and terminated or suspended some others too. The alleged sabotage is of “vehicle door not properly clamped leading to doors falling during production, cutting wiring harnesses, dents on the body and critical components not fitted on vehicles”, but the spokesperson presented no evidence to TEHELKA of these charges except pointing to declining production and ‘Quality OK’ numbers on 23, 24 and 25 August. The spokesperson wouldn’t confirm if there’s any video evidence from the numerous surveillance cameras but did claim to have photographs.

It is also important to remember that the media generates good revenues from the auto companies ( MSIL included) , the workers have hardly anything in their favor.

Last edited by sdp1975 : 3rd October 2011 at 18:30.
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Old 3rd October 2011, 18:26   #111
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Default Re: Whats happening at Manesar?

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Originally Posted by anjan_c2007 View Post

MSIL cannot repatriate money like you say "All the profits getting generated are going back to parent suzuki and share holders", to parent Suzuki beyond their equity holding. Suzuki holds a certain percentage of equity in MSIL and dividends are paid commensurate with the quantum of shareholding. Please get your facts right before you make such sweeping statements.
Well, suzuki holds 54 % . so naturally that much share of the profits are going there. add to that royalty MSIL is paying to them big time. why they are not developing in house R & D facilities to save on those royalties despite being in market for more than 3 decades now .Quite understandable that parent don't want that to happen for obvious reasons. moreover india is only market where they command such value . here also they survived on govt support for good 10-15 years. compared that to late entrants like TATA / Mahindra and you have the answer .

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Another sweeping statement!I have studied a Sr management Course management in MDI, Gurgaon very recently and know the facts at Gurgaon and Manesar quite well, as many of my Professors go for consultancy there. This belt is becoming quite notorious as far as labour unrest is concerned.
Un fortunately management courses are taught in air conditioned class rooms and give zero in sight into what labor is going through. Has anybody thought why they don't have such unrest in gurgaon ???

I will tell you. AFAIK , workers in g'gaon factory are majorly permanent employees and all paid well . where as maneshar is 70 % contract labor picked from ITI;s and are grossly underpaid . company promotes over time to suck every blood out of their vains .

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I beg to disagree here. If the workers sabotage the quality of a product its like biting the hand that feeds.This is cowardice and nothing else! There are faults on both sides but saying that the management is so and so is not called for.
this thing is known to those very workers as well who manufacture these cars. If they were sabotaging what stopped MSIL from producing the proof of same to press and media despite being asked thousand times by the press. that would have justified managements decision for signing those bonds but they never did that . some thing is clearly wrong...else they would have happily produced the evidence .

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Originally Posted by anjan_c2007 View Post
It cannot be true that all the managements at Honda Motorcycle Scooters India Ltd ,Hero Honda ( now Hero Motocop) and Honda SIEL and many other auto ancillary units in this belt are all " bunch of high profile arrogant / egoistic and useless people who has no respect for those very people , on whose basis they are earning everything" .Another very sweeping and biased statement. I beg to totally disagree.
my comments were for Mr Suzuki and i still standby those comments. read through his few press statements and you will know what i am talking about here. you may agree or disagree to them though . every body is entitled to his / her opinion.

Where did i mention honda / hero or other ancillary unit for that matter.
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Old 3rd October 2011, 20:53   #112
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Default Re: Whats happening at Manesar?

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Originally Posted by .sushilkumar View Post
why they are not developing in house R & D facilities to save on those royalties despite being in market for more than 3 decades now .
From what I heard from a friend working at MSIL, Gurgaon; they are indeed planning a major R&D centre in Rohtak IIRC.

And they already have R&D going on in Manesar.

That however, doesn't take away the fact that Maruti is paying massive royalties to Suzuki and has been terribly lax at doing something on it's own.
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Old 3rd October 2011, 22:14   #113
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Default Re: Whats happening at Manesar?

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Originally Posted by anjan_c2007 View Post
MSIL cannot repatriate money like you say "All the profits getting generated are going back to parent suzuki and share holders", to parent Suzuki beyond their equity holding. Suzuki holds a certain percentage of equity in MSIL and dividends are paid commensurate with the quantum of shareholding.

This belt is becoming quite notorious as far as labour unrest is concerned.

If the workers sabotage the quality of a product its like biting the hand that feeds.This is cowardice and nothing else!
Apart from dividend, I think they must be skimming the cream in the name of royalty. And don't forget they are the majority stake holders now.

As for simmering industrial unrest at many places in the country, I think many multinationals are indulging in labour practices which they will not dare to adopt in their own country. Case in point is workers in Chennai Nokia factory earning Rs 4k a month. Another is a few posts back someone mentioning if the current lot of workers leave, fresh ones will take their place at even lower wages. Can Suzuki adopt a similar attitude in their US plants? Will they not be roasted on a skewer? All this happens because of the ridiculous minimum wages in our country, where crooks called MPs fix their own pay at 60 - 70K a month! And companies employing 70% contract labour, which is against the law, are winked at. And the govt has even provided a way to by-pass all laws - they are called SEZs!

I refuse to believe the workers deliberately sabotaged the quality of the cars, despite MSIL management crying aloud from the roof tops. This is just inciting public opinion, in connivance with the media. No worker worth his salt will do it.

Last edited by Gansan : 3rd October 2011 at 22:18.
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Old 3rd October 2011, 23:09   #114
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Default Re: MSIL factory strike: Workers deliberately sabotaging the quality of cars.

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Addtionally 70% of the labor is contractual. why ???? when rules clearly says that it should be used for meet emergencies scenarios and short term labor needs only .
To squeeze the maximum as profits and squander the same to parent company in the name of profit share and Royalties.

Japanese principles of work must also be matched by Japanese employee welfare schemes also.
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Old 4th October 2011, 08:33   #115
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Default Re: Whats happening at Manesar?

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Now, here I can disagree quite easily. It was for the benefit of the stakeholders in the company, right? I dont have any doubt about the quality, but the current events were rightly or wrongly due to management actions
And how do the stakeholders benefit? By better profits and revenue generation, which is because of better sales.
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Old 4th October 2011, 08:56   #116
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Default Re: MSIL factory strike: Workers deliberately sabotaging the quality of cars.

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Originally Posted by .sushilkumar View Post
Dear zzzehar

I too work in one such outsourced company working for various clients. If i am coming late to office, i am not conned of my salary .what mgmt expect from me is that i will work designated 9 hours in office . if a worker is coming 2 second late , he should be expected to compensate the co for those 2 second rather than co cutting his half days wage. what about rest of 4 hours that he worked for free to co in such scenario's. there are lot many other things which they need to consider before putting workers under such stress .

So clearly a line is drawn in above scenario. Your in / out time from premises decides your working hours. no grey area here and what about people going to washrooms with their lunches / tea cup;s in hand.

I am sure that since strike is over now, every worker will be forced to stretch his working hours to min 14-16 hours a day to cover for previous month.

What about policies of MSIL , where they get more if they work over time . so MSIL itself is promoting over time. is that legal?? workers has increased the output to 125 % of the installed capacity, where is that extra earned by MSIL. that goes to parent MSIL and workers, they continue to struggle, trying both ends meets.

Additionally 70% of the labor is contractual. why ???? when rules clearly says that it should be used for meet emergencies scenarios and short term labor needs only .
Buddy, your understanding of management seems very different. I am not sure of the policies of your current org or in-depth details of Maruti Udyog's policies and procedures - however, there is a definitive reason for implementing a set schedule and a strong reasoning why employees are expected to adhere to it. I am not sure if you aware of capacity and headcount planning - it is done considering the required output in mind viz. available resources.

I have been working night shifts since last over 10 years of my career. I'd love the opportunity to spend my 10 hours during the day time - or whatever time suits me as long as it gets the job done.

In a production / manufacturing environment, there are only so many people you need in a given time slot in respective sections or units - this roster is prepared considering resource availability. If people start coming in late as per their wish and justify that by putting in the expected hours of work, there will be a huge spill over to the next shift thus, leading to wastage of man hours.

Example: I need 15 people from 9 am to 6 pm (or in any given shift) in paint booth and the next shift starts at 6 pm again. Of those 15 people, if two come in at 10 am and intend to stay back till 7 pm, where would you allocate resources for the two employees from the 6 pm shift? - do you expect them to sit idle? Or do you expect the management to do a behavior analysis and basis the lack of discipline in employees, they assume that a handful of employees from the required headcount in a specific shift would be running late, therefore, the next shifts should be planned accordingly?

There are very clear labor laws on over time defined by every state which I am sure the infamous worker union is well aware of, and needless to mention, there are legal complications attached to it - even in my org.

Somewhere above someone talked about workers dedicating their lives to the same org and not considering the better options available elsewhere - well, if they were so inclined on day one, where has all the commitment gone? Being an employee myself, I prefer aligning my goals to my organization's goals and keep the bigger picture in mind.

Similarly, Maruti would not have accepted such huge amount of bookings if they didn't expect their workers to work diligently and give the desired output. I am sure these workers have grown a lot professionally since the times of Maruti 800 - in the end, everyone wins - some monetarily and some professionally [experience].

It isn't exactly a cakewalk to run an org where employees threaten to go on a strike every now and then. If Maruti had to set an example by firing a few, it was right. Did you not read that quite a few workers actually signed the 'code of good conduct'? - what had gotten them? I am sure it couldn't have been the 'work is worship' proverb.

If they think going on a strike solves problems or sabotaging the quality does - it reflects sheer immaturity on their part. There are a lot of educated engineers out there waiting for companies like Maruti to hire them, lots.
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Old 4th October 2011, 08:59   #117
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Default Re: Whats happening at Manesar?

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I refuse to believe the workers deliberately sabotaged the quality of the cars, despite MSIL management crying aloud from the roof tops. This is just inciting public opinion, in connivance with the media. No worker worth his salt will do it.
It would be extremely foolish on Maruti's part to gather publicity via such a comment - didn't happen.
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Old 4th October 2011, 10:47   #118
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Default Re: Whats happening at Manesar?

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And how do the stakeholders benefit? By better profits and revenue generation, which is because of better sales.
Yes you are right under normal circumstances. But my quote was considering the circumstances under which the employees went on strike. The strike was against the inhuman practices at the shop floor (not against the Maruti's quality policy). And here the goal of Maruti was not betterment of quality, but to reduce cost through maximum utilization of their resources. Whether the same was done properly or not is a moot question. I think time will answer the question, since if current solution is temporary, we can seen see another unrest. If not, then good for Maruti, good for the customers and the country

Quote:
Somewhere above someone talked about workers dedicating their lives to the same org and not considering the better options available elsewhere - well, if they were so inclined on day one, where has all the commitment gone? Being an employee myself, I prefer aligning my goals to my organization's goals and keep the bigger picture in mind.
I was not talking about dedication - but rather about your statement that people should have raised the objections earlier. Employees going on strike against what they think are certain unacceptable practices is not lack of dedication or commitment. It is a way of demanding their right. My point is these shop floor people are very simple people when it comes to planning their life and they do not think at options available outside when they get into any job. They consider the company as integral part of their lives and have every right to demand good working conditions And a company should rather take this also into consideration when framing their policies. Else they will face strikes or at the least lower morale among employees.

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Old 4th October 2011, 10:52   #119
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Default Re: MSIL factory strike: Workers deliberately sabotaging the quality of cars.

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Similarly, Maruti would not have accepted such huge amount of bookings if they didn't expect their workers to work diligently and give the desired output. I am sure these workers have grown a lot professionally since the times of Maruti 800 - in the end, everyone wins - some monetarily and some professionally [experience].
Here is the problem - given that Maruti is so successful in the past and they have so many bookings for the future, why do they have 70%+ employees in this plant as contract workers? Can someone explain that? I can understand a company which is not very successful or which is unsure of the future go the "contract workers" route - but why Maruti?

Also in some of the industries (For e.g software) contractors get paid more per hour than a permanent employees since they don't have any benefits - in this plant it seems to be different !!.

Talking about Japanese discipline etc, Japanese companies and employees prefer lifetime employment. Akio Morito (Sony fame) himself talks about this in his book - he comments about how difficult it is for companies and employees if people are not looking at a long term commitment. Given that these employees are compared to Jap workers, then why are they all contract workers and not permanent workers?



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If they think going on a strike solves problems or sabotaging the quality does - it reflects sheer immaturity on their part. There are a lot of educated engineers out there waiting for companies like Maruti to hire them, lots.
The strike is by low level workers, not by Engineers. Engineers get a different treatment compared to what these workers go through. Btw this plant has been having a history of strikes, this is not the first time - the quality sabotage part is not proved (it is an allegation by the company) The strikes have been happening for the exact same issues - formation of unions and converting contract workers to permanent workers. Think about it - If management refuses to solve the problems, what can workers do other than striking - even after so many strikes the Mgmt hasn't listened !!.

Nothing personal here - but why are we all so against unions? Yes, they did a lot of bad things - but does it make every strike and every union bad? Here is a classic case where workers seem to be having a genuine problem and no one supports them !!.
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Old 4th October 2011, 11:13   #120
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Default Re: MSIL factory strike: Workers deliberately sabotaging the quality of cars.

Maruti Suzuki goes swift on production!

"This will help us increase the output of Swift to 17,000 units a month from our historical highs of 12,000 units a month," a senior Maruti Suzuki official told ET. The company will also resume normal production of SX4 and A-star models.
With increased supplies, Maruti Suzuki expects to reduce the waiting time by at least a couple of months for Swift, which has got bookings of 1,08,000 units. The current waiting period for the hatchback is eight to nine months."

http://http://economictimes.indiatim...w/10225610.cms

Cheers!
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