Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > The Indian Car Scene


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 9th September 2011, 15:13   #31
Senior - BHPian
 
xingamazon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Chennai
Posts: 1,399
Thanked: 110 Times
Infractions: 0/1 (5)
Default Re: Why cant Suzuki make its own Diesel Engines ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FastLove View Post
To summarize - I am the SUZUKI boss , i have access to FIAT and VW engines . I Sell the most in India with the most Fuel Economy cars delighting the Indian customers and now i want to Design my own engine ....

The above sentence sounds very stupid towards the end.
Dude, you need to put all facts to check if the statement looks stupid or not. If you had gone thro the news that we all have gone thro you will understand, all that you said is true. Except of some facts which you have not quoted in your statement. So here is the statement below:

I am the SUZUKI boss , i have access to FIAT and VW engines . I Sell the most in India with the most Fuel Economy cars delighting the Indian customers and now i want to Design my own engine, because my production of diesel vehicles (which is in most demand in India) is limited owing to my agreement with Fiat, that Fiat is not allowing me to increase.
Additionally, I am not able to manufacture any Diesel Sedans (competing with Vento/ Verna/ Fiesta because as Fiat is not supplying my any 1.6 ltr engine despite by requests.

Now read the statement and tell me if that sounds stupid
xingamazon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th September 2011, 15:25   #32
Team-BHP Support
 
theMAG's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 7,036
Thanked: 1,469 Times
Default Re: Why cant Suzuki make its own Diesel Engines ?

Historical company policy of not believing in diesel engines + not recognizing a changing requirement until it hit them in the face could possible answer the original query of this thread.

The strategic priority for Suzuki now is to have diesels available. They've done that in the quickest way possible- buy engines from amongst the best diesel manufacturers in the world. The challenge for Suzuki is that even if they did come out with their own diesels(which I am sure they will in the near future), they may not necessarily be as mature as the current diesels available from the Fiats or Hyundais.
theMAG is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 9th September 2011, 16:03   #33
BHPian
 
FastLove's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: MUMBAI
Posts: 416
Thanked: 99 Times
Default Re: Why cant Suzuki make its own Diesel Engines ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by xingamazon View Post
Dude, you need to put all facts to check if the statement looks stupid or not. If you had gone thro the news that we all have gone thro you will understand, all that you said is true. Except of some facts which you have not quoted in your statement. So here is the statement below:

I am the SUZUKI boss , i have access to FIAT and VW engines . I Sell the most in India with the most Fuel Economy cars delighting the Indian customers and now i want to Design my own engine, because my production of diesel vehicles (which is in most demand in India) is limited owing to my agreement with Fiat, that Fiat is not allowing me to increase.
Additionally, I am not able to manufacture any Diesel Sedans (competing with Vento/ Verna/ Fiesta because as Fiat is not supplying my any 1.6 ltr engine despite by requests.

Now read the statement and tell me if that sounds stupid
Again just few Points :

1. YOur Thread starts with an assumption which is not true . FIAT does not have a cap on what number of MJDs Maruti Suzuki Produces. FIAT is paid Royalty.

2. Maruti Suzuki makes small cars and are not a very significant player in the Global Auto market compared to the other Big Players.

3. I stated the above for the reason that even Big Players like Honda and Nissan don't have a Diesel Technology.

4. Suzuki entered into a relation with FIAT only when they wanted to enter the Europe market . You need to have a Diesel Engine if you have to be recognized in Europe. and so came the MJD to SUZUKI.

Nobody rules out a Diesel engine from Suzuki or Honda in future. But , as of now these are the Facts and Suzuki is living with it. Why should we be bothered?

Now , i give you another statement to read and ponder on ..

Maruti Cars are not the safest, don't have the best of interiors /legroom etc., not much in terms of features but command an award winning engine under the hood. Overall, a great package with many options to the Indian buyers.

Having said that .. Now , they sit down and plan to change the only thing that is good in the car.

Again ..not happening!!!

Note - All the points i am making is to answer the query - Why would Suzuki not make its own diesel engine? I guess the points be taken to that effect!
FastLove is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th September 2011, 16:25   #34
Senior - BHPian
 
xingamazon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Chennai
Posts: 1,399
Thanked: 110 Times
Infractions: 0/1 (5)
Default Re: Why cant Suzuki make its own Diesel Engines ?

While we were having this discussion came across this link not sure if this was reported earlier in the TBHP.

Maruti to source (note directly buy) Diesel engines from Fiat owing to exponential demand for Diesel engines.
UPDATE: Maruti Suzuki In Talks To Buy Diesel Engines From Fiat India - WSJ.com

Mods: If this news was already shared, request you to delete this post.
xingamazon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th September 2011, 21:03   #35
Senior - BHPian
 
amalji's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Kochi
Posts: 1,253
Thanked: 1,419 Times
Smile Re: Why cant Suzuki make its own Diesel Engines ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JustCause View Post
What Suzuki loses out on is the more powered 1.6MJDs & the like. By aping FIAT tech., Suzuki is only able to do 1.3MJD FGTs (DDis) & VGTs(Super turbo DDis). While they do have a powerful-yet-efficient performer in the K-Series, the 'national engine' will lose its sheen once the 1.6 MJDs are launched. And, Fiat might keep these as exclusives as is the case with T-Jet.
If Fiat does that, More than Suzuki, FIAT will be the loser. Thanks to the crappy service networks for FIAT, FIAT will not be able to sell even 20% of what Maruti sells when the same engine is given to them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FastLove View Post
Again just few Points :

1. YOur Thread starts with an assumption which is not true . FIAT does not have a cap on what number of MJDs Maruti Suzuki Produces. FIAT is paid Royalty.
As per my knowledge, they do have a 2 Lakh cap per year for DDiS engines. And FIAT is not agreeing to increase that limit. If someone feels that I'm wrong, feel free to correct.
amalji is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11th September 2011, 19:36   #36
Team-BHP Support
 
noopster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Pune
Posts: 8,662
Thanked: 9,184 Times
Default Re: Why cant Suzuki make its own Diesel Engines ?

FIAT should be thankful MSIL (also Tata) is selling so many of its engines; if left to their own devices they will barely be able to sell a thousand of these every month.

So the relationship between the two is likely not one of dependence ON Fiat but of dependence OF Fiat. Those engines are probably the best thing going for Fiat at the moment- why would they want to jeopardise it?

Suzuki *does* need a larger diesel drivetrain for the Grand Vitara/ Kizashi but Fiat need not be its only option. With the Swift/Dzire/SX4 selling in their current numbers, I guess MSIL are sitting pretty right now.
noopster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th September 2011, 16:06   #37
BHPian
 
A350XWB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: BLR/FRA/STR
Posts: 790
Thanked: 525 Times
Default Re: Why cant Suzuki make its own Diesel Engines ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by theMAG View Post
Historical company policy of not believing in diesel engines + not recognizing a changing requirement until it hit them in the face could possible answer the original query of this thread.
This is exactly what I said in the first page of this thread. Suzuki might not have thought that one day, their largest market will be India and the demand will be for diesel cars.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FastLove View Post
Again just few Points :

3. I stated the above for the reason that even Big Players like Honda and Nissan don't have a Diesel Technology.
Please check the facts. Nissan (many) and Honda (few) are having diesel engines of their own. And believe it or not, in Europe, the Accord and the CRV are available with the i-CTDi engines.

List of Nissan engines - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Honda N engine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
List of Honda engines - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Quote:
Originally Posted by FastLove View Post
4. Suzuki entered into a relation with FIAT only when they wanted to enter the Europe market . You need to have a Diesel Engine if you have to be recognized in Europe. and so came the MJD to SUZUKI.
Suzuki started marketing the SC100 in UK in 1979 and the Fiat engines came much later.
A350XWB is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12th September 2011, 16:48   #38
Team-BHP Support
 
tsk1979's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 22,953
Thanked: 15,638 Times
Default Re: Why cant Suzuki make its own Diesel Engines ?

Companies are built with an aim to profit, not to show they can build engines.
So every company will take the cheapest route.
Thats why you have engine families being shared.
For example the multijet goes into Suzuki, fiat, tata,GM....
the 1.4 dci goes to Renault, nissan, citreon, peugot....

So just like every pc maker uses an intel or amd chip, you have similar thing in engines, and engine management systems.

This way engine makers make some money, and companies which do not have their inhouse engine do not need to spend millions of dollars in R&D and patent portfolio purchases.
tsk1979 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th September 2011, 18:03   #39
BHPian
 
FastLove's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: MUMBAI
Posts: 416
Thanked: 99 Times
Default Re: Why cant Suzuki make its own Diesel Engines ?

Suzuki start work on first own developed diesel engine | SUZUKI FAN

Don't know how reliable the above news is ?
FastLove is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th September 2011, 19:36   #40
BHPian
 
thamban's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 33
Thanked: 10 Times
Default Re: Why cant Suzuki make its own Diesel Engines ?

Suzuki asks VW to dissolve alliance

All is not well between VW and Suzuki. Probably Suzuki is doing better on its own now.
thamban is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th September 2011, 15:02   #41
BHPian
 
FastLove's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: MUMBAI
Posts: 416
Thanked: 99 Times
Default Re: Why cant Suzuki make its own Diesel Engines ?

A split in the Volkswagen-Suzuki alliance appears imminent!
Bureau
On one end of the spectrum, you have the three cylinder 1.2 Liter, 12 valve, three cylinder TDI common rail turbodiesel from Volkswagen. This engine produces 75 Bhp of peak power and 180 Nm of peak torque, to power two cars in India, namely the Volkswagen Polo TDI and the Skoda Fabia Diesel. Both cars are sedate performers at best with the engines not really rev happy. Oh yes, we know we’re talking diesels here but then again, the Volkswagen 1.2 Liter TDI mill is best enjoyed sedately.The fuel economy though, is reasonably good although not being a chart topper. Add to the equation the inherent vibes that a three cylinder will produce by design and higher initial oil consumption that have come to be a standard occurence in Volkswagen TDI diesel engines, you have a modern turbodiesel engine that is average at best with no real quality that makes it a segment topper or a super drivable unit.

On the other side of the spectrum, you have a 16 valve,, DOHC 1.3 Liter, four cylinder unit called the FIAT multijet turbodiesel engine that powers not one or two, but four hatchbacks in the country, three of them outselling both the Volkswagen Polo and the Skoda Fabia combined. The FIAT multijet engine produces a similar power output of 75 Bhp and 190 Nm but most folks having driven cars with this engine swear by the turbo rush and the peppy performance of this engine. The 1.3 Liter FIAT multijet engine also is a willing rev machine despite being a diesel as compared to the 1.2 Liter Volkswagen TDI. The four cylinder layout of the well designed engine means that the refinement is of very high order along with engine vibes being kept to an absolute minimum. Fuel economy too is a strong point of this engine with bomb proof reliability being a high point of this engine unlike the various niggles owners have reported of the 1.2 Liter TDI engine.
Therefore, it isn’t too surprising that Maruti Suzuki, the undisputed leader in the Indian car market has chosen to patronize FIAT instead of Volkswagen for the small capacity turbocharged diesel engines. Recently, Suzuki also made a fresh agreement with FIAT to source more small capacity engines from the latter, for use in its small hatchbacks. Also, FIAT is developing a three cylinder small capacity diesel engine for use in Marutis smaller hatchbacks.
FastLove is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Why cant we get a nice compact Diesel SUV/Crossover in the price range of Rs 4-7 Lacs shankar.balan The Indian Car Scene 151 19th February 2013 17:46
Difference between old engines and new engines (petrol and diesel) srijit Technical Stuff 32 26th January 2011 10:20
2011 i10 Asta A/T - its Korean, its new, its fast, its red, and its coming. nirupesh Test-Drives & Initial Ownership Reports 1 8th January 2011 10:45
101 Reasons as to why you cant make it to the national Meet Godfather The Team-BHP Meet Section 78 26th May 2006 12:56


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 09:45.

Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks